Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #44

[KonaHonu]

No way he would pass random drug tests and annual drug testing.

Jankee, do you have knowledge of when Alex quit his job? You and I have communicated privately and I respect your view of your friend. Things look pretty damning at this point and I understand that is hard for you. But as we all try to piece this tragedy together, every piece of information helps. I'm willing to believe Lori killed the kids and summoned him afterwards. But if we are going to look into that possibilitywe need more information. If there is anything you know that you are comfortable sharing it may really help us!

 

[Nikynoo]

Chad had told Lori that Tammy was going to die in a car accident, I think something had been done to her car before he sent her on that trip but it wasn't good enough to cause an accident. So 10 days later she died in her room, this is the first I had heard of her waking up in the middle of the night and slumping forward off the bed. That is exactly what happened to my daughter when she passed away as well as the red foam from her mouth and she died of a fentanyl overdose in 2017. My feeling is Tammy was poisoned and I think opiates of some nature were used.

I am so, so sorry for your loss. A big hug from me xx

 

[indicolite22]

This video features ES, JR as well as (briefly) an expert on Mormon studies. JR tries to sell some of her visions, but also goes on the record saying that Chad murdered Tammy. According to her he could have used some sort of spiritual weapons (such weapons are also mentioned in Chad's manifesto). JR also believes that Alex was murdered. IMO her guesses are as good as anyone's. Apart from her communication with Chad about Tammy, JR has no proof of his guilt.

JR and ES explain that Chad as a spiritually gifted man was being deceived (presumably by the devil). Where's personal accountability in that?

 

[indicolite22]

Analysis of MBP's past statements in this new video:

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Organophosphates ("OPPs") are actually a group/type of chemical that includes herbicides, insecticides, and nerve gas on the "heavy dose" side and some organophosphates are actually used as medications (with a little lighter dosing than, say, a yard full of weed killer).

Generally speaking, OPPs interfere with nerve transmission by causing a buildup of acetylcholine, which, depending on the type of receptor affected and where it's affected, can cause symptoms like muscular excitation.

A mild/moderate reaction to exposure might be similar to the weird uncontrollable twitching you get in your muscles when you're very dehydrated, "fasciculations."

A more major impact might be tachycardia leading to cardiac arrest.

Those are just examples of muscular effects.

Acetylcholine is involved with many processes in the body - in the brain, in the tissues and organs, too, so there is a plethora of symptoms possible from OPPs interference with various systems.

Possibly less relevant, but still interesting - OPPs (of other forms - your Walgreens pharmacist doesn't have a 55 gal drum of diazinon back there) are also used effectively in medications when the body's ACH system encounters regulation issues from disease/disorder.

If you want to try to correlate the possibility of either cumulative (such as with AxC's job hauling toxic chemicals) or excessive dose exposure (intentional poisoning) start with the stated symptoms at the scene and work backwards.

I can't remember if AxC was or wasn't foaming at the mouth, but that's one - inhibition of ACH can cause excessive salivation (but not excessive salvation, unless you could be brougbt up on murder charges and need an out with an indefinite eternal destination?).

You might actually start with the Poison Control Center, as they deal with unintentional ingestions and should have lists of symptoms of certain toxins that don't require wading through a lot of medical-ese.

Many weed killers and bug killers will be OPPs, so maybe start with one of those and compare to the medical findings.

Thanks, I have not been to the Poison Control Center... Given his work history.. I wonder if ME's take such information into consideration. Probably not...

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Yes I've thought this too. I can relate to sticking it out, hoping, praying things are not what you suspect.
Also in a similar way Tammy going to visit her parents before her death reminds me of those times I sought out the comfort and safety of my parents and my family home when troubling things were happening relationship wise. Your parents can feel like the certainty when everything else feels shaky and uncertain.
I feel Tammy suspected or knew about Chad's affair and maybe started having suspicions about more sinister things going on. She was a smart woman and it wouldn't surprise me if she had done some sleuthing of these podcast women that Chad was hanging around with.

I felt she knew too... her coworkers words about Tamm'y last day of work--where she was quite obviously distraught about something ... just broke my heart.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

yes indeed. Do you have thoughts about the crappy resolution of the first image? Possibly a thumbnail or degradation from copying? or maybe a reduced resolution after texting to someone else?

In the Jodi Arias case, the thumbnails were lower quality as she had erased some photos retrieved off the found camera card, and the originals could not be retrieved. MOO And yes, unless it was a TIFF format, formats like jpegs get lower when copied and of course, if sent through text format. So, all three on the table.

 

[Jankee]

Jankee, do you have knowledge of when Alex quit his job? You and I have communicated privately and I respect your view of yoiur friend. Things look pretty damning at this point and I understand that is hard for you. But as we all try to piece this tragedy together, every piece of information helps. I'm willing to believe Lori killed the kids and summoned him afterwards. But if we are going to look into that possibilitywe need more information. If there is anything you know that you are comfortable sharing it may really help us!

Alex left his job in August - and that was the last time I spoke directly with him. I believe he did not do these horrible things, but as my daughter keeps reminding me, BTK's wife had no idea who her husband really was. Time will tell, and I pray I am not mistaken.

 

[Nikynoo]

Alex left his job in August - and that was the last time I spoke directly with him. I believe he did not do these horrible things, but as my daughter keeps reminding me, BTK's wife had no idea who her husband really was. Time will tell, and I pray I am not mistaken.

Thanks for all your input. It really shakes your belief system when someone you know is involved in something so terrible, doesn't it?

Did Alex give any reason for leaving his job? How did he seem last time you spoke to him?

 

[nhmemorymaker]

[/QUOTE]

Chad had told Lori that Tammy was going to die in a car accident, I think something had been done to her car before he sent her on that trip but it wasn't good enough to cause an accident. So 10 days later she died in her room, this is the first I had heard of her waking up in the middle of the night and slumping forward off the bed. That is exactly what happened to my daughter when she passed away as well as the red foam from her mouth and she died of a fentanyl overdose in 2017. My feeling is Tammy was poisoned and I think opiates of some nature were used.

I am so sorry, dear one. My best friends lost their grandson, who lived with them, to fentanyl in 2017, as well. The pain never goes away, but neither does the fentynyl.

I think we have analyzed the possibility of opiates.. but have felt they would show up quite easily, and they have not.

 

[Jankee]

Thanks for all your input. It really shakes your belief system when someone you know is involved in something so terrible, doesn't it?

Did Alex give any reason for leaving his job? How did he seem last time you spoke to him?

Belief system shaken is mildly put. The struggle at this point is doubting everything and everyone I think I know.
I cannot give details about his work (confidentiality issues, etc,,,). In my opinion, he was still trying to cope with taking Charles' life. I offered counseling and he told me he was seeing a therapist - if that therapist was Zulema, she failed him professionally - IMHO

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Taking all of this with a big Chad-sized grain of salt, I believe the original retelling I read was that he said she'd had a coughing fit before going to bed. And that the sitting up and falling out of bed was later on. This is from memory, so challenge me or correct me at will

I think you are accurate. Definitely, BEFORE she went to bed, originally.

 

[Sachi]

Websleuthers minds are a veritable treasure trove of expertise, intuition , research and questioning - this case has brought out some outstanding thinking.

You are all incredible. I read an entry and by the time I think of something relevant, it’s been relayed more clearly and concisely and sorted. The amt of detailed research, cross checking and discourse is nothing short of amazing.

Thank you to all who carry burdens of loss and heart ache and for sharing your strength, hope and experience here, surely I am one of many here who stand beside you and hold space with respect and reverence for the heartache you carry, namaste.
Also, best to all who are trudging through this who knew Chad or others involved personally.

Now back to reading a long confusing and eye opening article about brainwashing as relevant to cults vs POW’S - principles and techniques they share and those they don’t and what will stand up in court.
These defense lawyers have their work cut out for them. I sense religious delusion might be front and center.
How did Lori get to where she is? Chad?
When MG spoke of Lori in Nate’s interview, her hands told a compassionate story when delicately discussing what might happen if Lori realizes the horror of what she has done. I felt MG attempt to empathizing which is beyond our Realm of understanding.

Varying articles point out that religious delusions are believed to be totally connected to mental illness perhaps, and specifically, schizophrenia. Many of you probably already know this.

This is one article yet there are other more confusing reflecting on court cases ie Patty Hearse etc. and comparing them to POW’s and the history of admissible vs non and what needs to be established it to be considered
Psychological characteristics of religious delusions

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I had not seen this Keith Morrison interview on threads before... may be a dupe?

 

[nhmemorymaker]

thank you for the link to Gray. That is pretty close to what I was trying to do. Picked out East Chinaman's Spring a few times looking for a bench maybe, but I have to agree this does look like the place.

Google Earth

If you move back a bit you can see there is really not much of a grade there.

Most people hold their phones just below their eye level when taking pictures. If Alex's eyes are about where the phone level is at and Alex is just over 6' and Chad is just under 6'3", I think there is a decent chance the person taking this photo is Chad and not Lori.

What an interesting observation. However, it appears to me to be someone slightly shorter than Alex.... so i would still go with Lori.

 

[pizzaman12]

The first photo had only Alex smiling, and not Tylee, maybe Lori deleted it in favor of taking a new one. Maybe when it was recovered by the FBI it degraded it?

What is the purpose of releasing the last known photo after they're determined deceased and saying YNP is no longer of interest? I like the theory presented earlier in that it may have been a way to let whoever know that they have those photos and may have been previously deleted.

This is just speculation but the timing and purpose certainly have me wondering as they could have easily posted a newer photo which is much clearer for the public earlier if they had it.

 

[Nikynoo]

Belief system shaken is mildly put. The struggle at this point is doubting everything and everyone I think I know.
I cannot give details about his work (confidentiality issues, etc,,,). In my opinion, he was still trying to cope with taking Charles' life. I offered counseling and he told me he was seeing a therapist - if that therapist was Zulema, she failed him professionally - IMHO

The Alex you knew is your truth, hold on tight to that.

 

[Nikynoo]

I had not seen this Keith Morrison interview on threads before... may be a dupe?

I find that man mesmerising. So many things go through my head when watching him. That is all.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Websleuthers minds are a veritable treasure trove of expertise, intuition , research and questioning - this case has brought out some outstanding thinking.

You are all incredible. I read an entry and by the time I think of something relevant, it’s been relayed more clearly and concisely and sorted. The amt of detailed research, cross checking and discourse is nothing short of amazing.

Thank you to all who carry burdens of loss and heart ache and for sharing your strength, hope and experience here, surely I am one of many here who stand beside you and hold space with respect and reverence for the heartache you carry, namaste.
Also, best to all who are trudging through this who knew Chad or others involved personally.

Now back to reading a long confusing and eye opening article about brainwashing as relevant to cults vs POW’S - principles and techniques they share and those they don’t and what will stand up in court.
These defense lawyers have their work cut out for them. I sense religious delusion might be front and center.
How did Lori get to where she is? Chad?
When MG spoke of Lori in Nate’s interview, her hands told a compassionate story when delicately discussing what might happen if Lori realizes the horror of what she has done. I felt MG attempt to empathizing which is beyond our Realm of understanding.

Varying articles point out that religious delusions are believed to be totally connected to mental illness perhaps, and specifically, schizophrenia. Many of you probably already know this.

This is one article yet there are other more confusing reflecting on court cases ie Patty Hearse etc. and comparing them to POW’s and the history of admissible vs non and what needs to be established it to be considered
Psychological characteristics of religious delusions

The court docs in the custody case of Melani BP's father, were very revealing. He states that Lori's father was diagnosed with schizophrenia. Crazy genes in this Cox family, that is for certain.
Request: Could you respond with this link again. I cannot seem to open it. I am assuming you are linking the NCBI article, but not really sure. Thanks

 

[Nikynoo]

The court docs in the custody case of Melani BP's father, were very revealing. He states that Lori's father was diagnosed with schizophrenia. Crazy genes in this Cox family, that is for certain.
Request: Could you respond with this link again. I cannot seem to open it. I am assuming you are linking the NCBI article, but not really sure. Thanks

I wish we had a separate link to court docs. I find it a challenge to find the relevant post.