Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #44

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I agree we may never know the complete truth. 100% agree all blame will be place on Alex, whether true or not.

I agree with you. The defense attorneys will have to pin it on someone who can't defend himself, although the phone pings aren't helping him.

Thank you for your bravery and contribution to this conversation. You have a completely different perspective on parts of this case and it's very helpful!
 
6/24/20 Lori Vallow's Life Behind Bars - Court TV

Insight into Lori’s cell, privileges and upcoming birthday tomorrow. Will be 47 yrs old.She can access the shower anytime....can exercise for 1 hr a day....has no roommate.Three meals a day. Has never been on suicide watch. She can use a tablet anytime located in her “pod” to Telmate (zoom) with a visitor(has to be scheduled & approved )of course is recorded ...except convo with lawyer or clergy.
Anyone think Lori has clergy zoom meetings?
 
Please don't be, I'm just slow on the uptake sometimes. And have some occasional issues with authority and questioning the rules :) But I promise to be good!
ha ha! I hear ya, Gum!
 
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I have the same question. We tend to appreciate discussions that lead us to trust, mistrust, integrity of some of the players, not just the POIs. The journalism world is giving Melanie a lot more credit than we are right now. And I think we have to do the same analysis of DW,, since he is becoming more active. He appears to be quite different in his earlier writings, than he is on Dateline now! And his publications are a way to see these differences;
A mod replied that we can't sleuth DW.
 
What is the purpose of releasing the last known photo after they're determined deceased and saying YNP is no longer of interest? I like the theory presented earlier in that it may have been a way to let whoever know that they have those photos and may have been previously deleted.

This is just speculation but the timing and purpose certainly have me wondering as they could have easily posted a newer photo which is much clearer for the public earlier if they had it.

I think there might be two options related to the timing of the release of these photos. We know for certain that the first photo was from LV's Icloud account. So quite possibly the second photo is from AC's phone and they either didn't want it to be known that they were analyzing his phone or they simply hadn't gotten there yet. I can see LV taking photos from both her phone and his as they were standing there and it may account for the subtle differences between photos.

The second possibility is that LE is shaping the narrative they are telling through the media, which we know they do. The first photo tells a very different story from the second. We see a troubled TR and AC gazing away not paying attention. The second photo shows them both smiling on a family day trip. I'm wondering if the perception of the case may have changed slightly if the second photo had been released first, lending credibility to the theory that these children were simply hidden away.

This is all speculation too, MOO.
 
I was looking for info on Chad's upbringing and family history to see if something made sense to cause him to become what he has become. After reading the quote below, I wonder if he slowly became disillusioned with the church and felt it was a sham starting with finding out his grandfather could do what the prophets/apostles could do. Maybe his grandfather told him about this "meeting" to manipulate Chad in some way or convince him he needed to do something? He doesn't share what the meeting was about so I don't really know. But maybe he figured if they were using it for power and control over people, so could he. Also, it may not even be a true story. He then goes on to claim the NDE's and go on a church mission. So on one hand, he needed the church as a basis/setting for his special powers but did not need the church at all. So hard to consider anything that he said or wrote because of all the lies. Nothing excuses his actions in anyway. JMO

My thoughts came from this article, Everything We Know About Chad Daybell Following His Arrest in Missing Idaho Kids Case, "maternal grandfather, Guy Chesnut, who told him a story about meeting a "messenger from heaven" at a temple one day. The story seems to have stuck with Chad and sparked his belief that people on Earth could communicate with people "on the other side of the veil."

"I was a teenager when Grandpa first told me this experience, and it really had an impact on me. Up to that point, I figured only the prophet or apostles could receive visits from messengers. But I realized it could happen to common members of the Church under the right circumstances," Chad wrote on his website in 2015.

Receiving messages from heaven and acting on them soon became a part of Chad's life. He had two near-death experiences, one at 17 and the other in his early 20s, that he said showed him glimpses into the spirit world, as well as visions of what could happen here on Earth."

All fiction to me. From Suzanne Freeman's interview, he never mentioned NDEs at all. One who has had them would so definitely share with someone else who had them. If he was an experienced publisher...perhaps not. But Chad was just a doufus starting his business when he met Suzanne, I just feel there is zero possibility that he would not share this "soul experience" with her, if any were real.

And I do believe in NDEs for sure. My mother was in a fire, and pronounced dead TWICE.... she shared what she had experienced, from her ICU bed, and said no one believed her.
But weeks later, when I brought it up again, she looked at me like I was crazy, telling me she had no such experience. (This was before Kubler-Ross's books.)
 
I agree with you. The defense attorneys will have to pin it on someone who can't defend himself, although the phone pings aren't helping him.

Thank you for your bravery and contribution to this conversation. You have a completely different perspective on parts of this case and it's very helpful!
I can think of scenarios where he was involved after the fact, but did not actively do the deed. That's my point, the phone pings point to his presence at critical times, but are not conclusive as to actions. It grinds at me to think the deadly duo can capitalize on his death and inability to speak the truth.
 
I appreciate your kind words. If it became important we could really fix the camera position for both photos by using a variety of photogrammetric techniques. I am curious as to the difference in resolution between the two images. I'm very confident these photos were taken with the same camera, though, or identical ones at least. Given that all three have not shifted positions much at all (look at Tylee's and JJ's hand/arms) the photos were clearly taken close in time. Moreover, when you look at the histograms for both photos they match extremely well (see below).
Histograms.jpg

I feel we can all relate to the practice of taking a picture... taking one, and then telling everyone "to look at the camera". They do look like split second shots to me....
 
I think there might be two options related to the timing of the release of these photos. We know for certain that the first photo was from LV's Icloud account. So quite possibly the second photo is from AC's phone and they either didn't want it to be known that they were analyzing his phone or they simply hadn't gotten there yet. I can see LV taking photos from both her phone and his as they were standing there and it may account for the subtle differences between photos.

The second possibility is that LE is shaping the narrative they are telling through the media, which we know they do. The first photo tells a very different story from the second. We see a troubled TR and AC gazing away not paying attention. The second photo shows them both smiling on a family day trip. I'm wondering if the perception of the case may have changed slightly if the second photo had been released first, lending credibility to the theory that these children were simply hidden away.

This is all speculation too, MOO.
i don't see it this way.... I just see Tylee saying "come on Mom, get on with this"... and then, for the second photo, Lori just says" Ok everyone look at me and smile"
 
I can think of scenarios where he was involved after the fact, but did not actively do the deed. That's my point, the phone pings point to his presence at critical times, but are not conclusive as to actions. It grinds at me to think the deadly duo can capitalize on his death and inability to speak the truth.
I am wondering whether Alex, if still alive, would he still be Lori's defender?

Edited to be concise (i hope).
 
I am wondering whether Alex, if still alive, would he still be Lori's defender?

Edited to be concise (i hope).
If as Jankee says, he was seeking counseling. That could indicate he was experiencing some sort of guilt, although I'm not clear when that conversation took place (before or after Tylee & JJ's death).

We also don't know how deeply invested he was in the bunk theology. MG told us she went to AxC and asked what happened to JJ. He replied "you don't want to know".

What's your take on his reply?
 
No, no evidence of opioids per the toxicology report that's with the autopsy results. Consensus seems to be that EMTs, finding him unconscious and not knowing if he was an OD, administered Narcan as a precaution.

Conversely, in Tammy's case, I could believe that CD might have slipped her a deadly dose of something like fentanyl, but that's pure speculation and I still have trouble believing he'd have easy access to something like fentanyl in squeaky clean Rexburg.
Maybe Alex the truck driver had a way of getting fentanyl?
 
A method of murder or suicide which might be undetectable to medical examiners? A substance possibly known to AC and which was easy to obtain? Here's my latest theory (warning: JMO, speculation, and long):

Prior to the release of AC's autopsy results there seemed to be two main camps within the WS community re: AC's death: murder or suicide. Althouugh there was no evidence at the scene indicating foul play, I think many sleuthers remained unconvinced.

In several posts before the autopsy results were released, I speculated that AC's death had been a suicide. My reasoning was that 1.) AC seemed too young to have suffered either a heart attack or stroke, 2.) AC was likely burdened by tremendous guilt and shame, and was under enormous stress, 3.) LV and CD were out of the country at the time of AC's death, 4.) AC might've felt he could protect his sister and CD and earn the admiration of the 144k by taking his secrets with him to the grave, 5.) AC might've owned a life insurance policy and wished to have some specific individual receive the payout (policy payouts appeared to be at least one of the motives in earlier incidents involving CV, BB, and TD).

If AC did kill himself, I think there is good reason to think he may have wanted to conceal the real cause of death. A finding of suicide might make any life insurance benefit payout null and void. A finding of suicide might harm AC's reputation among relatives, friends and the group. And a finding of suicide might later be interpreted by both the public and LE as an admission of guilt.

On the other hand, a finding of death by natural causes would likely confuse and hinder any/all LE investigations into AC or the group. AC could have feigned his symptoms of chest/lung illness in the week leading up to his death as part of a plan to conceal the manner of death (even in his discussions with MG on the phone).

When AC's autopsy results were finally released, I think many sleuthers were in shock. How could the medical examiner have missed finding something (anything!) in the course of the investigation - when it was known in advance that certain dynamics were in play in which foul play or suicide might very well have played a part in AC's death, and that if foul play was involved, certain imfividusls might then have attempted to conceal the true manner of his death?

Afterwards though, I stuck to my guns and suggested that AC had perhaps killed himself by injecting air (aka an air embolism), resulting in a PE. I theorized that injecting air had been used may times in past murders and suicides, and that the technique might leave little evidence behind for an autopsy to find. The problem was, while an air embolism might've fit in AC's death, it really didn't fit in TD's - and while we still didn't (and don't) have TD's autopsy report back yet, I'd always felt that she and AC were perhaps killed in the same manner (again, assuming both deaths were not simply due to natural causes).

Today while online I came across a method and a substance which I think might fit the circumstances of both both TD's and AC'S's deaths (coughing, vomiting, shortness of breath, chest pain, pink film). The substance is called HCF-134a (otherwise known as Trifluoroethane). HCF-134a is a common refrigerant, and is the main ingredient in "compressed air dusters" (aerosol cans of compressed gas used to dust off computer keyboards and interiors, electronics, lenses, machinery, etc). For those purposes, "compressed air dusters" can be purchased at any office supply store or big retailer. HCF-134a is also used as a propellant in air soft and paintball guns.

Intentionally inhaling compressed "air" (known as "huffing" or "dusting") from a compressed "air" duster can be fatal. Again, this is because "compressed air dusters" don't actually contain compressed air, but rather a high density refrigerant gas called HFC-134a. Think freon. In fact, HFC-134a has been used as a replacement/substitute for freon since the late 90's when concerns arose sbout damaging the ozone.

Tragically, some young people have died while trying to get high via "huffing" or "dusting". The high is actually hypoxia, which I read is caused by a kind of shuffling
of O2 and CO2 in the bloodstream. This condition occurs when air in the lungs is suddenly displaced by the denser HFC-134a gas as it rapidly sinks to the bottom of the lungs. Asphyxia follows, often occurring in minutes. I don't know whether HFC-134a (also known as Freon 134a) would be detectable during an autopsy or in blood panels.

I also don't know whether AC was an air soft / paintball enthusiast when he was living down in AZ. A quick search online though and you'll get the impression that Phoenix just might be the air soft /paintball capitol of the world. And then of course there's the suspicion that maybe AC was "paintball dude", standing and firing blanks (or missing altogether) at TD as she unloaded frozen dinners from the back of her SUV one night about 2 weeks before her sad death.

There are other compressed gasses (CO2) which are used as propellants in air soft and paintball guns, so maybe it's a long shot theory. But if AC was an air soft /paintball enthusiast, I think it's just possible thst he might have known about HFC-134a: an odorless, colorless gas - that kills quick.

Eta: A method that might've first been tried (with apparent success, if it was) on JR..
So well written--thank you. I have always wondered about the CO2 wondering if there was an "easy portable" way to handle.

Yes, I was one who was absolutely shocked with the outcome of the autopsy. I have felt for a long time, that these characters had a "suicide pact" commitment if they needed it. But basically another evil "L and C device".
  • With the welfare check at the end of November (* corrected)...if Chad was so nervous (as MG stated), then that would have come hard for Alex as well.
  • And then MG tells Alex that she went to the police.
  • And then, Tammy's body was exhumed.
  • And if Alex actually was considering therapy...well, guilt. He may have actually had guilt!
But after Tammy's exhumation, I could just see C and L calling Alex to tell him it was time for "Plan C".
I still find this to be my favored opinion. Right now anyway.
 
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