Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #44

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Alex left his job in August - and that was the last time I spoke directly with him. I believe he did not do these horrible things, but as my daughter keeps reminding me, BTK's wife had no idea who her husband really was. Time will tell, and I pray I am not mistaken.
It is possible that in the same way he previously protected his sister from the ex husbands, he felt he had to protect her, not from actual JJ or actual Tylee, but from zombies who had taken over the bodies of his beloved niece and nephew.

By participating in whatever way he did, he truly believed he was also protecting the souls of his beloved niece and nephew. MOO
 
It is possible that in the same way he previously protected his sister from the ex husbands, he felt he had to protect her, not from actual JJ or actual Tylee, but from zombies who had taken over the bodies of his beloved niece and nephew.

By participating in whatever way he did, he truly believed he was also protecting the souls of his beloved niece and nephew. MOO

It's pretty diabolical: convince a loving uncle that his beloved niece and nephew had their souls pushed out of their body by evil spirits, and the only way to free their souls is to destroy the body. They are just shells after all, and if it is too disturbing to see their faces as they die, just sedate them, restrain them, and put a plastic bag over their heads until they stop moving.
 
I'm obviously not a defense attorney but can MM persuade LV to place the blame on AC if he knows that wasn't what actually transpired? That's probably a very basic legal question so I apologize in advance.

I'm not a lawyer either, but my guess is sure he can. Defense is a strategy that has to be discussed and decided upon, I believe. Remember Jose Baez framing Casey's defense on blaming George Anthony for Caylee's death? Surely he knew that wasn't true.
 
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It is interesting to speculate and based on what we know now it is almost certain they had a great deal of evidence. However, it is also seems clear that, for whatever reason, the cell phone analysis showing Alex on the property was not completed until recently. You can be certain they accumulated a mountain of evidence after September. I believe everyone can rest easy and have confidence they both are never going to be free.
I have wondered if they needed to break into the password on the phone before it could be fully analyzed?
 
I think there might be two options related to the timing of the release of these photos. We know for certain that the first photo was from LV's Icloud account. So quite possibly the second photo is from AC's phone and they either didn't want it to be known that they were analyzing his phone or they simply hadn't gotten there yet. I can see LV taking photos from both her phone and his as they were standing there and it may account for the subtle differences between photos.

The second possibility is that LE is shaping the narrative they are telling through the media, which we know they do. The first photo tells a very different story from the second. We see a troubled TR and AC gazing away not paying attention. The second photo shows them both smiling on a family day trip. I'm wondering if the perception of the case may have changed slightly if the second photo had been released first, lending credibility to the theory that these children were simply hidden away.

This is all speculation too, MOO.

To me, the first was a "who done it". The second was a message that these three people died at the hands of your friend/family manipulations under the guise of religion just to confuse and confoud... and some need to back away and realize that saying again and again "my truths...blah blah blah"... is something that needs reconsideration.

All MOO
 
Never apologize for asking questions here. Besides, that is an excellent question to raise. Defense lawyers have approaches when dealing with defendants who are guilty. Typically a lawyer will commence by warning a client to not tell him anything unless and until he asks. It is not uncommon for a defense attorney to talk in hypotheticals such as, "you know, Lori, if you were acting under duress it might help your defense." That may seem disingenuous, but it is technically appropriate as long as the attorney does not knowingly suborn perjury. The problem with this type of approach is that he can't "help" Lori invent such a story without Lori being willing to testify. She can spin all the tales she wants, including space aliens, but the defense must have proof through either her testimony or that of someone else before making such a claim against Alex. MM or whomever represents her will recognize this is a loser and the best shot would be a confession and a plea deal.

Thank you and I'm sure it not alone in what I'm getting ready to say. If LV did claim space aliens, I wouldn't be surprised. Haha!
 
If as Jankee says, he was seeking counseling. That could indicate he was experiencing some sort of guilt, although I'm not clear when that conversation took place (before or after Tylee & JJ's death).

We also don't know how deeply invested he was in the bunk theology. MG told us she went to AxC and asked what happened to JJ. He replied "you don't want to know".

What's your take on his reply?
I think from what @Jankee has said, the reference to counselling was prior to his move to Rexburg and the deaths of Tylee and JJ. On the otherhand, we have statements from MG that stated that Alex believed in the Zombie element 100%. I would be very interested in knowing more about the relationship between brother and sister, right from their early years. Something isn't quite right, but I cannot put my finger on it.
 
RSBM

Can we please refrain from associating schizophrenia with “crazy”? Schizophrenic people suffer horribly, and are frequently victimized, presented as scary, while they’re in fact vulnerable. It’s a difficult life, from what I understand, and the inclination is frequently bent towards self-harm (to make it stop, among other things). Statements like this are ableist, though I have every confidence you have good intentions...it’s just an important thing to me to bring up as it can be damaging creating this kind of stigma & association in people’s minds.

Mental illness/“craziness” language is frequently our default when talking about people capable of these heinous things, but that perpetuates a false narrative, as we know people who have such illness are more frequently victim than perpetrator.

thank you sincerely for hearing me out.

I understand, and very fair. Especially the reference to the genes.
I had only wanted to present that it does appear that there has been an official diagnosis for one Cox elder. BUT I know I added the "crazy" referring to the letter said elder wrote BACK to the judges in the custody case. It was truly "wild and crazy"
 
I have wondered if they needed to break into the password on the phone before it could be fully analyzed?

Rarely would take that long. Plenty of companies and professional hackers are out there besides the normal resources at the FBI and NSA
 
If LVD is in the pod in gen pop without any suicide watch, and all the inmates have access to television - you can bet that all the news coverage from EIN was playing on the big screen in the rec room throughout the day (unless there was some jail order that it couldn't be). I am envisioning that there are quite a few people, inmates included, who watched in horror as LEO was digging in CD's backyard and he drives away. I would imagine we will be hearing rumors from people who were incarcerated with LVD on that day very soon. This is a small community and there really is an affectionate term of "MNN" for Mormon News Network. Word travels very fast in Southeastern Idaho (IMO)
 
If as Jankee says, he was seeking counseling. That could indicate he was experiencing some sort of guilt, although I'm not clear when that conversation took place (before or after Tylee & JJ's death).

We also don't know how deeply invested he was in the bunk theology. MG told us she went to AxC and asked what happened to JJ. He replied "you don't want to know".

What's your take on his reply?

"Counseling" could be one of the other members who supported Lori. "Counseling" to some means professional, but in this group, it could be to sway his support?
 
Never apologize for asking questions here. Besides, that is an excellent question to raise. Defense lawyers have approaches when dealing with defendants who are guilty. Typically a lawyer will commence by warning a client to not tell him anything unless and until he asks. It is not uncommon for a defense attorney to talk in hypotheticals such as, "you know, Lori, if you were acting under duress it might help your defense." That may seem disingenuous, but it is technically appropriate as long as the attorney does not knowingly suborn perjury. The problem with this type of approach is that he can't "help" Lori invent such a story without Lori being willing to testify. She can spin all the tales she wants, including space aliens, but the defense must have proof through either her testimony or that of someone else before making such a claim against Alex. MM or whomever represents her will recognize this is a loser and the best shot would be a confession and a plea deal.

So I have, sarcastically, suggested that the best defense would be true belief in the zombies, the end of days, and they have been told to do everything they did to be on the right hand of God. etc. I could see the verbal techniques you mention above making MM believe his defendants, so it must be true.

With no insanity plea how does a defense attorney navigate this possible scenario??
 
It is possible that in the same way he previously protected his sister from the ex husbands, he felt he had to protect her, not from actual JJ or actual Tylee, but from zombies who had taken over the bodies of his beloved niece and nephew.

By participating in whatever way he did, he truly believed he was also protecting the souls of his beloved niece and nephew. MOO
Lori believed Tylee was a zombie since 12-13 (from what she told MG). If Tylee was a zombie all these years, obviously she hasn't done anything to Lori in her supposed zombie form. So what would Alex think he would be protecting Lori from?
 
I think from what @Jankee has said, the reference to counselling was prior to his move to Rexburg and the deaths of Tylee and JJ. On the otherhand, we have statements from MG that stated that Alex believed in the Zombie element 100%. I would be very interested in knowing more about the relationship between brother and sister, right from their early years. Something isn't quite right, but I cannot put my finger on it.
I am assuming counseling could be "energy healing" that seems so popular in their circles. I really don't think he went to a professional psychiatrist.
 
If LVD is in the pod in gen pop without any suicide watch, and all the inmates have access to television - you can bet that all the news coverage from EIN was playing on the big screen in the rec room throughout the day (unless there was some jail order that it couldn't be). I am envisioning that there are quite a few people, inmates included, who watched in horror as LEO was digging in CD's backyard and he drives away. I would imagine we will be hearing rumors from people who were incarcerated with LVD on that day very soon. This is a small community and there really is an affectionate term of "MNN" for Mormon News Network. Word travels very fast in Southeastern Idaho (IMO)

But is that MNN in the prison?

I hope someone who knows pipes in here... I have wondered at times, about what cable channels are permitted in prisons, and which may not be permitted. I have daydreamed about "what if prisoners watched Fox news all day", or Court Tv, or Dateline. you get the gist....are their restrictions.
 
It's pretty diabolical: convince a loving uncle that his beloved niece and nephew had their souls pushed out of their body by evil spirits, and the only way to free their souls is to destroy the body. They are just shells after all, and if it is too disturbing to see their faces as they die, just sedate them, restrain them, and put a plastic bag over their heads until they stop moving.

Remember that memorial video SS put together about brother AC?
All those pictures with her kids? None of JJ and Tylee..

Wonder what she is thinking now??
 
Snipped for focus


That's a VERY helpful article IMO, especially pp 2-5. I hadn't thought of the differences between strong faith-based imaginings and existential distortions of reality.
I think we have to be careful about a diagnosis, though.

And how do you get from religious delusions to a cult? Do all the members of the cult share the delusions? They are presumably in the cult because they are captivated by the delusions of the leader (that seems obvious in this case), but I don't think you can have a cult that is comprised of a gaggle of folks with pathological delusions. They wouldn't survive each other IMO.
On second thoughts, the folks in the wider Zombie Gang might not have survived each other if LE hadn't intervened, but.....
Anyway, the binary in this article may be very useful, but it might also have substantial limitations for this case.

Establishing the brainwashing /delusion defense seems quite difficult And in the case of murder even more so.


http://vc3.org/bestCDJ/docs/16 Cap. Def. J. 73 (2003) Warburton, Brainwashing.pdf
 
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