Was Burke Involved # 5

[Tobiano8th]

ok, FF = kolar.. i have read that recently.

 

[fr brown]

what is FF?

i read the Kolar book not that long ago... and i recently read the "detective's guild" book very recently (mostly PR wrote the note.. not that much else)

i just order steve thomas book. read many years ago. probably more than once...

I have Thomas' book in hard copy and kindle. I look things up in it all the time. It's the best book by a mile and a pleasure to read.

The last third of FF, Kolar's book, is interesting. It relates his heroic efforts to convince the police and the DA that his theory is correct. Iirc, Kolar even wrote an opening statement for Stan Garnett to present to a jury. Oh, to have been a fly on the wall for that conversation.

 

[s(he) be(lie)ve(d)]

The new video in "Media Thread" at 6o3 Is that Burke's old Nintendo on the floor in Jonbenet's room? It's not his new 64, he had that with him. Just curious how that might have gone over with Burke. Not saying its the reason he might have ended her life but it could have been a very big deal. It would have been in my house, again not enough to kill for but some real upset would be taking place.

Any thoughts?

 

[proust20]

In BR's 1st video interview with Child Protective Services, he demonstrates how JR was hit over the head. The CBS program demonstrated that a 10 yr old boy actually could shatter a young girl's skull in this manner. I believe that Kolar said that, soon after JR's death, BR was already aware that JR in fact had been strangled, as he had discussed this with his friend; but, perhaps, this information that JR was struck over the head was not widely known. Perhaps, BR could have overheard his parents. He also says that JR was stabbed, which, of course, isn't the case. However, BR could be referring to the paintbrush that was shoved violently inside JR.
In the 2nd BR video, he notoriously has a very difficult time in admitting that what he is seeing is in fact a bowl of pineapple. On the other hand, he readily identifies the glass with the tea bag. But aren't the bowl and glass related in the time frame? It seems odd that not much is made of the glass which also had BR's fingerprints.

 

[UKGuy]

In BR's 1st video interview with Child Protective Services, he demonstrates how JR was hit over the head. The CBS program demonstrated that a 10 yr old boy actually could shatter a young girl's skull in this manner. I believe that Kolar said that, soon after JR's death, BR was already aware that JR in fact had been strangled, as he had discussed this with his friend; but, perhaps, this information that JR was struck over the head was not widely known. Perhaps, BR could have overheard his parents. He also says that JR was stabbed, which, of course, isn't the case. However, BR could be referring to the paintbrush that was shoved violently inside JR.
In the 2nd BR video, he notoriously has a very difficult time in admitting that what he is seeing is in fact a bowl of pineapple. On the other hand, he readily identifies the glass with the tea bag. But aren't the bowl and glass related in the time frame? It seems odd that not much is made of the glass which also had BR's fingerprints.

proust20,
The bowl and the glass did have Burke's fingerprints, and in a homicide investigation they should really not be there.

Burke's touch-dna was found deposited on JonBenet's bloodstained pink barbie nightgown, left in the wine-cellar. Again in a homicide investigation the touch-dna should really not be there.

Both of these forensic items link Burke Ramsey with the death of JonBenet.

.

 

[icedtea4me]

<snip>Burke's touch-dna was found deposited on JonBenet's bloodstained pink barbie nightgown, left in the wine-cellar. Again in a homicide investigation the touch-dna should really not be there.<snip>

Burke's and JonBenet's clothes would've been both dried in the same dryer. Why would it have been impossible for Burke to have grabbed JonBenet's Barbie nightgown to have moved it aside to grab what he needed out of the dryer?

 

[UKGuy]

Burke's and JonBenet's clothes would've been both dried in the same dryer. Why would it have been impossible for Burke to have grabbed JonBenet's Barbie nightgown to have moved it aside to grab what he needed out of the dryer?

icedtea4me,
Maybe.

You are citing two speculative events prior to the death of JonBenet which of course might never have occurred.

From memory it was LHP who did the washing, and emptying of washing machines and dryers.

The children did little other than open drawers, and drop stuff on the floor for LHP to wash.


What you are suggesting is not impossible just given the circumstances regarding JonBenet's death highly improbable.

Consider the bloodstain on JonBenet's pink barbie nightgown, this is JonBenet's blood so when and how did it arrive on the gown?

Its not simply the forensic status of the pink nightgown that is relevant its the fact it is also located in the wine-cellar!

.

 

[icedtea4me]

<snip>
Consider the bloodstain on JonBenet's pink barbie nightgown, this is JonBenet's blood so when and how did it arrive on the gown?

Its not simply the forensic status of the pink nightgown that is relevant its the fact it is also located in the wine-cellar!

.

JonBenet's blood was found on three items, if I recall correctly- the Barbie nightgown, the white top, and the blanket. She had two rust-colored (color of dried blood due to oxidation) abrasions on her back. http://www.acandyrose.com/12271996jonbenet04.gif (pg 4, paragraph 1)

The floor on which she was laid was far from smooth and immaculate, so I would guess that there was some sort of debris on it which scratched her and caused the bleeding from the two wounds. She was on her back and the blood would seep down to whatever was under her.

 

[UKGuy]

JonBenet's blood was found on three items, if I recall correctly- the Barbie nightgown, the white top, and the blanket. She had two rust-colored (color of dried blood due to oxidation) abrasions on her back. http://www.acandyrose.com/12271996jonbenet04.gif (pg 4, paragraph 1)

The floor on which she was laid was far from smooth and immaculate, so I would guess that there was some sort of debris on it which scratched her and caused the bleeding from the two wounds. She was on her back and the blood would seep down to whatever was under her.

icedtea4me,
There were no open lacerations or wounds yielding blood noted by the Coroner at the autopsy, other than detailed blood on JonBenet's thighs and genital area. Some which the Coroner considered had been wiped clean.

It is possible the nightgown was bloodstained during the staging process and you could argue that John or Patsy transferred Burke's touch-dna by accident onto the nightgown?

The issue being that two critical pieces of forensic evidence link Burke Ramsey with the death of JonBenet in a manner that moves beyond that of mere chance.

.

 

[icedtea4me]

icedtea4me,
There were no open lacerations or wounds yielding blood noted by the Coroner at the autopsy, other than detailed blood on JonBenet's thighs and genital area. Some which the Coroner considered had been wiped clean.<snip>

The coroner noted that there were two rust-colored abrasions on her back. This is on pg 4 of the autopsy report The rust-color is an indication that there was blood there, but it had dried. http://www.acandyrose.com/12271996jonbenet04.gif



[/QUOTE]

 

[UKGuy]

The coroner noted that there were two rust-colored abrasions on her back. This is on pg 4 of the autopsy report The rust-color is an indication that there was blood there, but it had dried. http://www.acandyrose.com/12271996jonbenet04.gif

[/QUOTE]

icedtea4me,
The coroner does not tell us what the degree is of abrasion. From his description they all appear to be first or second degree abrasions, since the coroner does not cite blood stains or evident loss.

He seems to rule out blunt force as a cause, noting there were no surrounding contusions, so these were likely caused by someone dragging JonBenet as opposed to carrying her. Guess who is the prime candidate here?

The origin of the bloodstains on her nightgown could be judged by lab tests since blood cells from the leg or arm will differ in their composition from blood cells that originate internally.

Coroner Meyer has already referenced this in his opinion regarding sexual contact.

.

 

[rachlynneliz]

My mind was changed watching the CBS reinvestigation. The pineapple, flashlight, and train track. How he used to spread feces on her toys. Hit her in the head with a golf club. That boy was disturbed, as you can see from the Dr Phil show. He did it, parents covered it up to eliminate shame from their family and protect their son. The family will take it to the grave. But the grand jury voted to prosecute them on child abuse resulting in death!!

 

[icedtea4me]

icedtea4me,
The coroner does not tell us what the degree is of abrasion. From his description they all appear to be first or second degree abrasions, since the coroner does not cite blood stains or evident loss.

He seems to rule out blunt force as a cause, noting there were no surrounding contusions, so these were likely caused by someone dragging JonBenet as opposed to carrying her. Guess who is the prime candidate here?

The origin of the bloodstains on her nightgown could be judged by lab tests since blood cells from the leg or arm will differ in their composition from blood cells that originate internally.

Coroner Meyer has already referenced this in his opinion regarding sexual contact.

.[/QUOTE]

You seem to derive great ecstatic joy in making Burke the culprit.

 

[icedtea4me]

My mind was changed watching the CBS reinvestigation. The pineapple, flashlight, and train track. How he used to spread feces on her toys. Hit her in the head with a golf club. That boy was disturbed, as you can see from the Dr Phil show. He did it, parents covered it up to eliminate shame from their family and protect their son. The family will take it to the grave. But the grand jury voted to prosecute them on child abuse resulting in death!!

1. I like how you provided a link to prove that Burke spread feces on JonBenet's toys. That was very kind of you.
2. Court releases previously sealed documents in JonBenet Ramsey case

Counts IVa and VII [John Ramsey] received the required number of votes.
Counts IVa and VII [Patsy Ramsey] received the required number of votes.

Counts I, II, III, IV, IVb*, V, and VI [John Ramsey] did not receive the required number of votes.
Counts I, II, III, IV, IVb*, V, and VI [Patsy Ramsey] did not receive the required number of votes.

There are seven more charges of which the public is unaware.

*There is a Count IVa, which means there has to be a Count IVb.

 

[UKGuy]

icedtea4me,
The coroner does not tell us what the degree is of abrasion. From his description they all appear to be first or second degree abrasions, since the coroner does not cite blood stains or evident loss.

He seems to rule out blunt force as a cause, noting there were no surrounding contusions, so these were likely caused by someone dragging JonBenet as opposed to carrying her. Guess who is the prime candidate here?

The origin of the bloodstains on her nightgown could be judged by lab tests since blood cells from the leg or arm will differ in their composition from blood cells that originate internally.

Coroner Meyer has already referenced this in his opinion regarding sexual contact.

.

You seem to derive great ecstatic joy in making Burke the culprit.[/QUOTE]

icedtea4me,
I would not describe it quite as ecstatic joy that I reckon belongs to prophets, soothsayers and those promoting lifestyle advancement, etc.

It's more a sense of satisfaction that the forensic evidence allows BDI as a coherent theory.

There is no smoking gun that Burke did it, its all supposition and inference, but the abrasions on JonBenet's body not accompanied by contusions does suggest she might have been dragged along the floor?

.

 

[Logic101]

My mind was changed watching the CBS reinvestigation. The pineapple, flashlight, and train track. How he used to spread feces on her toys. Hit her in the head with a golf club. That boy was disturbed, as you can see from the Dr Phil show. He did it, parents covered it up to eliminate shame from their family and protect their son. The family will take it to the grave. But the grand jury voted to prosecute them on child abuse resulting in death!!

Lest you forget, CBS SETTLED their lawsuit with Burke based on allegations and innuendos that they made on that show that could not be substantiated.

I strongly suspect their settlement was VERY substantial!

 

[icedtea4me]

<snip>There is no smoking gun that Burke did it, its all supposition and inference, but the abrasions on JonBenet's body not accompanied by contusions does suggest she might have been dragged along the floor?

If that was the case, then there would've been some blood left on the floor where she had been dragged.

 

[UKGuy]

If that was the case, then there would've been some blood left on the floor where she had been dragged.

icedtea4me,
Not necessarily, might be she was wearing the nightgown which absorbed any blood. The abrasions as described by Coroner Meyer were not likely to lead to heavy blood loss.

I'm assuming these are graze type abrasions so if they are responsible for the bloodstains on the nightgown, then it might show she was redressed from the gown to the White Gap Top, thereby calling into question the Ramsey's version of events?

.

 

[icedtea4me]

icedtea4me,
Not necessarily, might be she was wearing the nightgown which absorbed any blood. The abrasions as described by Coroner Meyer were not likely to lead to heavy blood loss.

I'm assuming these are graze type abrasions so if they are responsible for the bloodstains on the nightgown, then it might show she was redressed from the gown to the White Gap Top, thereby calling into question the Ramsey's version of events?

.

I don't think it's at all unreasonable to think that JonBenet, like many kids, may have gotten a little bit of a 2nd wind when she got home. My guess is that she wore the Barbie nightgown to go to bed. After everything went down, I believe Patsy redressed her in the white top and white longjohns (coordinated outfit?) with the story being "JonBenet was put to bed the second we got home and we didn't have any contact with her since".

And I'm pretty certain John made some remark like "That isn't supposed to be there" when shown a picture of the nightgown in the room.

 

[UKGuy]

I don't think it's at all unreasonable to think that JonBenet, like many kids, may have gotten a little bit of a 2nd wind when she got home. My guess is that she wore the Barbie nightgown to go to bed. After everything went down, I believe Patsy redressed her in the white top and white longjohns (coordinated outfit?) with the story being "JonBenet was put to bed the second we got home and we didn't have any contact with her since".

And I'm pretty certain John made some remark like "That isn't supposed to be there" when shown a picture of the nightgown in the room.

icedtea4me,
He sure did, here you go:


2000-03-17: John and Patsy Ramsey on Barbara Walters ABC News 20/20

BARBARA WALTERS: When Jon Benet's body was found there was one of her favorite nightgown's next to her. Her so-called Barbie nightgown.

PATSY RAMSEY: Um hum.

BARBARA WALTERS: And so there was the impression that whoever did this cared about this child. Left the nightgown. Left the blanket.

PATSY RAMSEY: Um hum.

BARBARA WALTERS: Again. Oh her parents did it but they, they loved her so they tried to comfort her even in death.

JOHN RAMSEY: That's a very strange… that nightgown should not have been there. It's it's a clue of some type. We don't know what. Look, we know several very positive facts about this killer we believe. It's a male. (PAUSE) It's a pedophile that looks at young… female children much differently than you and I do. They look at 'em with sexual uh eyes. I thought about it every day for 3 years. I've talked to experts. I've talked to experienced homicide detectives. (LONG PAUSE) It's the best profile we can come up with.

BBM: note how John promotes the pedophile IDI here.

Neither John or Patsy say JonBenet's size-12 Bloomingdale's should not be there.

Also in another LEA interview on the same topic:
Boulder Police Department Interview 1998, Excerpt

18 MIKE KANE: I mean, I have two

19 daughters and they wear the same, you know,

20 until it's the end of the week and washing or

21 whatever. Did she wear that generally

22 underwear?

23 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't remember.

24 She had a drawer full of nightgowns, and she

25 didn't have one nightgown she wore all the time.

0676

1 It varied.

2 MIKE KANE: There was a nightgown

3 that was found down in the wine cellar?

4 JOHN RAMSEY: I have heard about

5 that.

6 MIKE KANE: Okay, do you know

7 anything about that?

8 JOHN RAMSEY: No.

9 MIKE KANE: Was that --

10 JOHN RAMSEY: I had never seen

11 that. I didn't see it when he was down this.

12 Sounds very bizarre. I don't know why that

13 would be there. I mean that room was usually

14 full of Christmas stuff. It's a nasty room. "

Sure John, it holds real nasty memories.


IMO John either intended to dress JonBenet in the nightgown, possibly as part of her relocation when he went missing mid-morning, not realizing that Fleet White had already looked in the wine-cellar and seen nothing amiss, remember Fleet White had superior eyesight to that of John, or its as you suggest, the nightgown is just dumped in the wine-cellar after she is dressed in the Gap Top?

Yet the bloodstains on the pink barbie nightgown are a bugaboo just alike the pineapple found in JonBenet's stomach, i.e. how did it get there?

.