Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #124

[judge4justice]

I think I have a better lead than almost anyone ever had on this case. I've sent it directly to Superintendent Carter the past few days. And to the tip line. I am genuinely not sure how to express who I think this individual may be, and suffice it to say, if my investigative work is correct, Carter is spot-on when he and others in LE say it will shock the community. If I laid down my entire case here, you would all likely be stunned. When they find this person, do not be shocked if he resembles the first sketch. The second sketch is to mess with his mind, and is very likely a younger version of him. I know that sounds insane, but this site does not allow for side-by-sides. Trust me when I say, my theory is NOT based on side by sides, but tons of circumstantial evidence that blew my mind, and involved a currently unfolding scandal in Carroll County. The police and FBI were trying to let the killer know they know who he is, but they cannot get that one smoking gun piece of evidence to prove it still. Ask yourself, if that person is right under their noses, why would they not be able to apprehend that person? Answer that question, which I believe I have, and that will be step one toward understanding why no one has come forward yet.

First post.. This case still bothers me to this day, since I heard about it back in 2017. Still check in on this thread time to time to see if there's any new leads/developments to ultimately catch BG. The current unfolding scandal in Carroll County could be huge here. Some things are starting to connect up. The second younger sketch is crucial. Especially the shape of his one eye. This is not a coincidence. Like many on here, I believe they have an idea who BG is. Just the same, BG probably knows they've narrowed on him. But they don't have that nail in the coffin evidence to put him away. BG has high power standing, confident, smart and knows what he's doing. A name was dropped on one of these threads a while back. The resemblance to the two sketches to this name is extremely eerie. The second younger sketch is by design, especially the uniqueness of his one eye is very specific. They are closing in on BG, only a matter of time. But he is well insulated and thinks he can't be touched or caught. MOO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

A note on the Purdue classes...Libby's sister only transferred to Purdue at some point after the murders, before that she was a student at a different college.

IIRC Libby attended an enrichment camp of sorts at Purdue. It featured different themed weeks where kids her age could learn in depth about science topics. I imagine the program directors would have been able to tell LE exactly who was working with kids or able to come in contact with them. At the time I looked into this you could still see the program schedule online and get a sense of how it was run. She definitely was not mixing in with the general student population as part of the program.

bbm

How do you think about possible occasional "guests" at Purdue, who were male, connected, "locally" well-known and amateurish interested in the same way as was Libby (crime, forensics, etc.)? What are the chances, she got in contact/was watched/was stalked?

 

[rosesfromangels]

I mentioned Purdue early on upthread, and got some harsh responses. Given the second sketch that does indeed look like "Joe College", Purdue shouldn't be overlooked. Early on I was asking if Monon is used as a location to study anything in particular. Being that Purdue is approx. 20 miles from MHB, it seems worthy of consideration. I would have wanted that poster all over Purdue, although it's unlikely that would have been permissible I guess.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Tiger Stripes]

I hope so too. This case could be solved today if police get the right tip.

Or another way of putting this might be... "This case could be solved today if police choose the right tip." All JMOO.

ETA: How tough could that be? Having to choose just a handful of tips -- and correct ones, too -- from among...what? 50,000? 60,000 tips? Boggles the mind. Though I'm no number-cruncher professionally (i. e., accountant, book keeper, etc.), still, one would *think* there might be a high probability that LE received at least one -- if not 3, 4, or maybe even 5 -- tips among those tens of thousands that would pinpoint the exact Delphi killer. Anyone here who can calculate the odds?

Also, someone here previously stated the name of the very specialized tip software that LE is using, so *maybe* narrowing it down (even to 40 or 50 possibilities, some of which surely must duplicate other tips) isn't an impossibility (it just *sounds* formidable).

Grateful for all those who still keep hoping and praying for justice for Abby and Libby.

 

[MizStery]

Early on I was asking if Monon is used as a location to study anything in particular. Being that Purdue is approx. 20 miles from MHB, it seems worthy of consideration.

rosesfromangels,your post brought back a nagging impression from Doug Carter that has stayed with me.I have always tried to find context for the comment(I am quoting only a small portion of his speech) made by Doug Carter at the Delphi Canal Center,26 months into the investigation, “We know that this is about power to you, and you want to know what we know”. Doug Carter ‘looked’ into the camera lens in such a manner that BG was ‘locked in his radar ‘crosshairs’. It felt personal (to me) as if Doug Carter was speaking to a person who believed himself unimpeachable in the horrific murders of Libby and Abby. But as a fellow poster mentioned earlier there are-unusual things that occur in many municipalities that are totally unrelated to this case that Doug Carter could been alluding to in that big press conference? OK,I am guilty of beating a dead horse.I wish I had my emoji of ‘beating a dead horse‘ from our old Webseluths software editor.

I pray this nightmare would end for the family and friends of sweet Libby and Abby.

My Opinion Only

 

[Tiger Stripes]

Libby had expressed an ambition to be a science teacher or a crime scene investigator, and she even attended extra science classes outside of school at Purdue University. I believe her sister also took classes at Purdue.

On any of our threads have we discussed the distinct possibility if either sister could have fostered a type of mentor who perhaps also taught at Purdue? If not a mentor than a familiar professor who in addition could have taken an interest in also participating in community lectures?

(RSBM)

I apologize but I just need to add my beloved husband passed in 2017. He graduated from Purdue in Electrical Engineering. Purdue is top tier school and everyone in Indiana should be very proud PU is in your home state.

Dear @MizStery, sending condolences your way right now... grief is something that one *never* truly just "gets over". Thank you for your thoughts on the forensics class at Purdue; in a much earlier post (perhaps a year or two ago) that I wrote here, I wondered if the posters of the girls' killer ("Wanted" posters) had been posted on campus there. Someone here (sorry, don't recall who) replied that they attended Purdue [in the spring of 2017], and nothing was posted in the way of a "Wanted" poster on campus -- or anything related to the Delphi case, for that matter.

Your thoughts about someone who may have mentored/encouraged the girls -- especially in forensics (definitely an interest of Libby's) -- are good thoughts. But how to find out professionals with whom Libby & Abby interacted regarding forensics and criminal justice, especially going back to 2016 (or before)? Would there be an online record showing how many spots were available for such a class, for example, or the names of those teaching the class(es)? Maybe that could be a starting place...

As one with Hoosier roots (and a Purdue seal on some transcripts ), I totally agree with you about Purdue! (But I've also taken a few courses at IU, so am sometimes conflicted as to which side to cheer for, when the two schools compete... LOL)

 

[Tiger Stripes]

First post.. This case still bothers me to this day, since I heard about it back in 2017. Still check in on this thread time to time to see if there's any new leads/developments to ultimately catch BG.

(snipped by me)

They are closing in on BG, only a matter of time. But he is well insulated and thinks he can't be touched or caught. MOO

Welcome to Websleuths, @judge4justice! Glad that you're here, and that you're joining all those who long for justice for Abby and Libby; one of these days (could be any day now) we'll read the great news that we've all been waiting for in this case...

 

[sunshineray]

First post.. This case still bothers me to this day, since I heard about it back in 2017. Still check in on this thread time to time to see if there's any new leads/developments to ultimately catch BG. The current unfolding scandal in Carroll County could be huge here. Some things are starting to connect up. The second younger sketch is crucial. Especially the shape of his one eye. This is not a coincidence. Like many on here, I believe they have an idea who BG is. Just the same, BG probably knows they've narrowed on him. But they don't have that nail in the coffin evidence to put him away. BG has high power standing, confident, smart and knows what he's doing. A name was dropped on one of these threads a while back. The resemblance to the two sketches to this name is extremely eerie. The second younger sketch is by design, especially the uniqueness of his one eye is very specific. They are closing in on BG, only a matter of time. But he is well insulated and thinks he can't be touched or caught. MOO

If LE does has a suspect and BG is a person of consequence in the community, it could explain a lot of the LE's actions and non-actions. It would take that much more and then some to make sure he can't evade punishment for what he's done.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

If LE does has a suspect and BG is a person of consequence in the community, it could explain a lot of the LE's actions and non-actions. It would take that much more and then some to make sure he can't evade punishment for what he's done.

"Community" open to interpretation? Then: yes, I agree.

 

[margarita25]

First post.. This case still bothers me to this day, since I heard about it back in 2017. Still check in on this thread time to time to see if there's any new leads/developments to ultimately catch BG. The current unfolding scandal in Carroll County could be huge here. Some things are starting to connect up. The second younger sketch is crucial. Especially the shape of his one eye. This is not a coincidence. Like many on here, I believe they have an idea who BG is. Just the same, BG probably knows they've narrowed on him. But they don't have that nail in the coffin evidence to put him away. BG has high power standing, confident, smart and knows what he's doing. A name was dropped on one of these threads a while back. The resemblance to the two sketches to this name is extremely eerie. The second younger sketch is by design, especially the uniqueness of his one eye is very specific. They are closing in on BG, only a matter of time. But he is well insulated and thinks he can't be touched or caught. MOO

Welcome, judge4justice

 

[Awsi Dooger]

@Angleterre We know Carter went off script because 1. He made statements that were wrong or unclear that had to be clarified by the ISP two days later and 2. The official ISP press release had actual quotes in it that were different from what he said aloud at the press conference. For these reasons, IMO he went off script a bit, not majorly, in the emotion of the moment.

Official press release is here:
New 'Face' of the Delphi Murder Suspect

It's so difficult to change a first impression. I wish it were common knowledge that Carter veered. But the topic still comes up regularly and many followers of this case are unwilling to accept it, largely because all the internet chat and also the television panels in the week or so following the presser focused on the aspect that it had to be fully scripted by the FBI. I've even read reports that former FBI behavioral specialists emphasized that theme on Delphi podcasts.

It is glaring evidence that they watched the presser but didn't know anything about the paper trail...before and after. Yemelyan spotlighted the major variables. Not only was the clarification required two days later but there are media links all over the place that used the press release as backbone of their coverage. Meanwhile Carter detoured so severely from the press release that he totally ignored the key quotes, the centerpiece quotes. This was not third string by-the-way stuff he deleted.

Here is a website from a major Fox affiliate in Fort Wayne that relied totally on the press release alone. That is very standard. Notice it doesn't say anything about, "who may be in this room," or anything about, "The Shack." That stuff wasn't in the carefully planned press release. The station website does use the intended quotes, ""We have a witness. You made mistakes. We are coming for you and there's no place for a heartless coward like you to hide that gets his thrill from killing little girls."

ISP release new information on Delphi murder suspect

The next example is also prevalent. I have seen it all over the place. Some media outlets used quotes from the actual presser and blended them with the quotes from the press release ("We have a witness...") under the logical impression that Carter would say the words eventually. I have never seen an example -- from politics or sports or true crime or any other topic -- where the key element of a major press release was completely bypassed:

State Police release new information in Delphi murder case

 

[Awsi Dooger]

In the Scene of the Crime podcast, I learned a few new facts. The first one is that the majority of searchers that evening were not actually searching on the specific section of the trails where the girls had been dropped off. They spread out across farm fields nearby and also on sections of the trail that joined up with the sections that went toward downtown Delphi. The belief that night was that there was a strong possibility the girls had tried to walk home or to a friend/relative's house and may have become disoriented walking away from the trail system.

The second thing I learned was that each group of searchers was partnered with at least one individual who had the ability to communicate with LE via official channels. So there was somewhat professional oversight of each volunteer group.

And the third thing I learned was that the whole first day/night of searches, only two teams of searchers crossed the Monon High Bridge.

So my initial impression of hundreds and hundreds of people crossing the bridge and tramping through the woods was incorrect. Though the possibility of scene contamination is always a concern, far fewer people were in close proximity to the crime scene than I previously thought.

That is great info. This topic came up on Reddit the other day but they didn't have those details. I said it would be interesting to see the distribution, that the vast majority were probably elsewhere. But I had no idea only two parties crossed the bridge.

That leads me to two conclusions. First, crossing Monon High Bridge was not a frequent occurrence. Not then, not ever. The searchers heard Abby and Libby were missing from the bridge trail. But they did not immediately associate a visit with actually crossing the bridge. Otherwise there would have been major numbers checking on the other side. The fact that searchers prioritized everywhere else should be a hint that the conventional wisdom from afar is wrong. We inherited this case and knew instantly that the girls crossed the bridge. Too many assume that is standard. That flawed impression lends to the theory that Bridge Guy was waiting on the other side.

He'd be waiting there all day.

My second conclusion is that Kelsi needed to be more involved that first afternoon. Significantly more involved. Stranger searchers may not have known that Abby and Libby probably crossed the bridge. Kelsi did know that it was likely their intention. In fact, I believe Kelsi (and Cody ? ) crossed the bridge shortly after they joined the search, including checking the homes behind the bridge.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Why did Kelsi assume they crossed the bridge? Why did she herself go there right away? Had she seen the pic of Abby on the bridge, or?

Crossing the bridge...crossing over....

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Awsi Dooger]

Killers escape route. MOO

Over the years I've seen mention of the murderer having exited the crime scene in some way via the MHB trail. I guess either back from whence he came, (across the bridge again?), or some how through the woods, back across the creek, and up on to the trail?

I'd entertain clarification from those who know more than me about this scenario

I always thought, and it's speculation on my part, but common sense tells me escape would have been up and out through the cemetery, or close to it.

Up and out near the cemetery makes the most sense. Here is a photo (at right...within an album) that depicts the terrain sloping downward toward the bodies location from an angle. It shows how severe it was, and therefore difficult to search at night. Walking up the crevice would be closer to the trail and may even have served as Bridge Guy's path to a higher route within the treeline on departure:

خرائط ‪Google‬‏‏

My opinion, BTW, is that the area where the bodies were found supposedly was searched carefully by law enforcement the first night, but they screwed up. That's why Doug Carter had a rather terse "not going to comment on that" when asked during a podcast series why the bodies were not found the first day. Carter would never be annoyed at civilian searchers. But he'd darn sure be upset if Leazenby told him that his men insisted they searched that area.

Screwing up would be norm during the realm of an outdoors search, where the phrase, "We looked everywhere," has repeatedly been demonstrated as meaningless. But I'm sure there will be nefarious interpretations as well, along with Bridge Guy making the always clever return during the night, determined to dump the bodies and press his luck a second time.

Here a photo that shows Bridge Guy's potential final return path to rejoin the trail. The photo wasn't intended as such. It is a picture of the red railing that previously was in front of the bridge. When I visited the bridge was being repaired so the red railing had been uplifted and then jammed into the ground left of the trail perhaps 25 yards before the bridge. Now I'm glad I took the photo at an angle and not straightaway. The view behind the railing includes where Bridge Guy could have walked if he came up the slope after leaving the bodies location and walked the 7-9 minutes (estimated) to regain the trail. The white angled tree at far right is just prior to the edge of the creek. You can see the terrain is not bad at all. Bridge Guy can come up the slope -- check for anyone on the trail or near the foot of the bridge -- then proceed at his leisure at any angle. Until looking at this photo more carefully I didn't realize that area left of the trail was so comparatively flat and untroubled:

Imgur

 

[MizStery]

<respectively snipped by me>Bridge Guy's potential final return path to rejoin the trail. The photo wasn't intended as such. It is a picture of the red railing that previously was in front of the bridge. When I visited the bridge was being repaired so the red railing had been uplifted and then jammed into the ground left of the trail perhaps 25 yards before the bridge. Now I'm glad I took the photo at an angle and not straightaway. The view behind the railing includes where Bridge Guy could have walked if he came up the slope after leaving the bodies location and walked the 7-9 minutes (estimated) to regain the trail. The white angled tree at far right is just prior to the edge of the creek. You can see the terrain is not bad at all. Bridge Guy can come up the slope -- check for anyone on the trail or near the foot of the bridge -- then proceed at his leisure at any angle. Until looking at this photo more carefully I didn't realize that area left of the trail was so comparatively flat and untroubled:

There is nothing like looking at photos from a crime scene especially rural terrain that a fellow poster has walked and documented for us. Most of us are out of state and unfamiliar with Delphi. Your details provided me with helpful geographic knowledge of this area.

This is something we discussed way back in July 17, 2017(over five months from the date of the murders)when police released the sketch of BG.’I am paraphrasing in regards to the sketch’ but it was reported they were not sure of BGs eye color but they were not blue.If my memory is wrong please let me know and I will delete it.

My opinion

 

[Yemelyan]

Why did Kelsi assume they crossed the bridge? Why did she herself go there right away? Had she seen the pic of Abby on the bridge, or?

Crossing the bridge...crossing over....

Amateur opinion and speculation

Many possibilities. She definitely followed her sister on Snapchat so she may have seen the photos taken on the bridge. Perhaps they told her in the car as she drove them there that bridge-crossing was the plan. Kelsi and Libby had crossed the bridge on previous occasions (according to Scene of the Crime) so she might have guessed it was in the realm of possibility.

 

[Yemelyan]

My second conclusion is that Kelsi needed to be more involved that first afternoon. Significantly more involved. Stranger searchers may not have known that Abby and Libby probably crossed the bridge. Kelsi did know that it was likely their intention. In fact, I believe Kelsi (and Cody ? ) crossed the bridge shortly after they joined the search, including checking the homes behind the bridge.

SBM.

This is correct, Kelsi and Cody crossed the bridge searching even before LE were called. According to Scene of the Crime, and in Kelsi's words.

 

[Ravenmoon]

Libby had expressed an ambition to be a science teacher or a crime scene investigator, and she even attended extra science classes outside of school at Purdue University. I believe her sister also took classes at Purdue.

On any of our threads have we discussed the distinct possibility if either sister could have fostered a type of mentor who perhaps also taught at Purdue? If not a mentor than a familiar professor who in addition could have taken an interest in also participating in community lectures?

In many areas of the country there are programs for local youth to meet with community leaders and thus intern or perhaps even foster a career focused ‘relationship‘ with interested professionals.

I am not pushing the theory that BG targeted either Libby or Abby. But in the interest of discussion could this be a remote possibility?

BG from the little we heard from the audio is very controlled.I would defiantly put him in the category of a person who had been trained in martial arts or a person of authority.
An example:
This is a brief description of the skill I refer to:

The person who remains calm while others panic is centered. Centering is the opposite of being scattered. Be centered and you will not freeze or flap. To flap means to move fast and frantically doing irrelevant things but nothing that will help the situation, kind of like a hog on ice—lots of squealing, legs and hooves every which way but no forward motion. Indecision can be just as deadly as not having a clue.​

BG appeared to be in total control from what we hear from Libby’s cell phone audio.

I am rambling. I need to to go back to my notes and refresh my memory on a few details before I post again.

‘My Opinion

I apologize but I just need to add my beloved husband passed in 2017. He graduated from Purdue in Electrical Engineering. Purdue is top tier school and everyone in Indiana should be very proud PU is in your home state.

Purdue University also links my POI.

 

[MizStery]

’I am paraphrasing in regards to the sketch’ but it was reported they were not sure of BGs eye color but they were not blue

I apologize for paraphrasing in my post quoted above.Here is the quote from the actual transcription:
Transcribed by Benty from Media Thread
Bringing this over from the main thread, as just recalled there is a media thread for this case. This is from a presser on 7/17 with the release of the sketch._________________
I (Benty)personally did transcription of presser, please excuse any errors

Q. In the release you mentioned some things exactly such as the hair color, can you talk about this at this time?

A. Basically, the hair color is a reddish brown. She was, the person was not clear on the color of the eyes, but sh.., the person said it was definitely not blue. She was very obvious..., the person was very obviously not blue eyes, but they did mention that they were not clear on what color it was.​

 

[margarita25]

I’m still going with my initial instinct that this is a random perp, jmo.