Questions you'd like answers to... #2

[fr brown]

I don’t think Grandpa is a suspect. I do think there might be a bearing on the previous abuse. Maybe grandpa went to Atlanta to confront the abuser. Maybe it was an innocent trip. I think the timing of the trip is odd.

Or maybe he was already booked on a flight, but decided to see if he could get on an earlier.

If there was no 911 call, JonBenet's tears were more likely to have been a result of a mean comment by a peer or having had an accident or any of the myriad of things that can damage a young girl's confidence.

 

[fr brown]

Without doubt, what I am to say has been covered previously here. In any case, I'll make make my comment with the hope that someone shall offer clarification.
A common thread of BDI is that BR and JB had a confrontation over the pineapple, which had fatal consequences. As far as I can tell, no one seriously considers BR as the author of the RN. So, at sometime before 5:30 AM, if BR were guilty, the Rs should have asked him for an explanation as to what had occurred with JB. But, given those circumstances, how do we know that BR should have told them the truth? If you'd just committed homicide on Christmas, should lying to your parents seem a really big deal?
With this case, it seems all roads lead back to the pineapple. The Rs need to cling at all costs to their tale that everybody was in bed by 10:30. And hence, PR vehemently denied giving JB pineapple. But, of course, the autopsy proved that JB did ingest it that evening. Also, the bowl with the pineapple was in full view when LE arrived. That an intruder should have fed JB is highly improbable, but not all together impossible.
What I am attempting to get at in a rather round about way is when did PR and JR learn that JB ate the pineapple? Perhaps these autopsy results surprised them? If BR indeed had told them that everything went haywire after JB snatched some of it from him, they'd have understood readily its pivotal significance. Wouldn't they have then wiped down the bowl of any fingerprints as part of the staging? Why, with the knowledge via BR, overlook this obvious aspect? The RN doesn't have fingerprints, nor do the flashlight batteries. It'd not be overly suspicious in itself that the bowl didn't have them also; and the myth that an intruder fed JB should if anything thereby be more substantial. To restate my line of inquiry, couldn't a guilty BR have lied to his folks about the chain of events which they only later fully grasped?

You lost me at "BR and JB had a confrontation over pineapple." This is just something Kolar cooked up in his fevered imagination. There is no evidence of it.

 

[fr brown]

I looked at Burke's interview where he's shown a photo of the bowl of pineapple. It appears that he's being shown a small black and white photo of it.

If so, why would he be expected to recognize it as pineapple? Especially if he wasn't part of the night's events.

 

[fr brown]

Maybe not by itself but that is also the night Jonbenet said she didn’t feel pretty anymore and grandpa flew on standby to Atlanta the next morning. Hours after the next time they see the Whites, Jonbenet is dead. Something happened on the 23rd, and escalated at the Whites. Hours later she was dead.

And I thought the idea was that JonBenet was being actively abused at the party, hence the 911 call. Why would grandpa fly to Georgia to confront the abuser if the abuser is there in Colorado?

 

[icedtea4me]

I looked at Burke's interview where he's shown a photo of the bowl of pineapple. It appears that he's being shown a small black and white photo of it.

If so, why would he be expected to recognize it as pineapple? Especially if he wasn't part of the night's events.

We automatically recognize it as a bowl of pineapple in cream because we've been told what it is and we've seen color pics of it.

 

[proust20]

I was not saying that BR went vengefully after JB because of a fight over the pineapple. This may or may not be valid. I only was seeking elucidation from those who believe this to be so. If one does not subscribe to this BDI theory, then, of course, no further clarification of the issue is to expected from the skeptics.
However, in fact, there was a bowl of pineapple and milk, which for my tastes is a rather eccentric combo. This is said to have been a favorite snack of the children. BR's fingerprints are on the bowl. It is possible that the snack was put into it sometime after BR had touched the bowl. Also, PR repeatedly stated that she did not put out the pineapple, and with what she deemed to be an inappropriately sized serving spoon. So, if both PR and BR did not have anything to do with this bowl of fruit, from where did it come? Whoever put out these contents would have to known that this was indeed one of the kids' favorites. Why would a non-family member deliberately use this very particular and eccentric element for staging? And this was accomplished without leaving their fingerprints anywhere in the kitchen, or anyplace in the entire home for that matter.
JB did have pineapple in her intestines according to the autopsy. Perhaps, it also indicated some milk. That I do not know. The Whites have said that they did not serve pineapple at their party. Either that is true, or they forgot, or they are lying. In any case, the autopsy showed that the pineapple was consumed in a time frame close to JB's death, which seems to rule out the White's party. If JB did not obtain pineapple from the bowl on the bar, from where did she get it? Is there any evidence of an alternate source of it in the house that would have been available to her?
BR cannot readily ID the photo of pineapple during the mandated interview, which was not conducted by LE, nor was LE present at it. The bowl and its contents were actually there when LE arrived. Perhaps, items are discerned less easily in b&W for some. Doubtlessly, most here are familiar with the syndrome dubbed 'Ramnesia' which is apparently contagious. If this pineapple did pay a role in the events, BR would have been coached, to say the least. (I cautiously hesitate to say brainwashed.) For BR not to recognize it makes him out to be more dim-witted than his scholastic record shows. To infer that it just might, just maybe be one your favorite snacks, which he admits that he was allowed to have often before retiring, is not a great leap of logic even for a 10 yr old. If BR did in fact forget this aspect of what occurred in the house on the most momentous night of his young life, then I suggest that ,as a result. nothing that he claims to remember of that evening and morning can be taken all that seriously.
In conclusion, I am not saying that BDI. I am just exploring problematic details of this bewildering case.

 

[fr brown]

I was not saying that BR went vengefully after JB because of a fight over the pineapple. This may or may not be valid. I only was seeking elucidation from those who believe this to be so. If one does not subscribe to this BDI theory, then, of course, no further clarification of the issue is to expected from the skeptics.
However, in fact, there was a bowl of pineapple and milk, which for my tastes is a rather eccentric combo. This is said to have been a favorite snack of the children. BR's fingerprints are on the bowl. It is possible that the snack was put into it sometime after BR had touched the bowl. Also, PR repeatedly stated that she did not put out the pineapple, and with what she deemed to be an inappropriately sized serving spoon. So, if both PR and BR did not have anything to do with this bowl of fruit, from where did it come? Whoever put out these contents would have to known that this was indeed one of the kids' favorites. Why would a non-family member deliberately use this very particular and eccentric element for staging? And this was accomplished without leaving their fingerprints anywhere in the kitchen, or anyplace in the entire home for that matter.
JB did have pineapple in her intestines according to the autopsy. Perhaps, it also indicated some milk. That I do not know. The Whites have said that they did not serve pineapple at their party. Either that is true, or they forgot, or they are lying. In any case, the autopsy showed that the pineapple was consumed in a time frame close to JB's death, which seems to rule out the White's party. If JB did not obtain pineapple from the bowl on the bar, from where did she get it? Is there any evidence of an alternate source of it in the house that would have been available to her?
BR cannot readily ID the photo of pineapple during the mandated interview, which was not conducted by LE, nor was LE present at it. The bowl and its contents were actually there when LE arrived. Perhaps, items are discerned less easily in b&W for some. Doubtlessly, most here are familiar with the syndrome dubbed 'Ramnesia' which is apparently contagious. If this pineapple did pay a role in the events, BR would have been coached, to say the least. (I cautiously hesitate to say brainwashed.) For BR not to recognize it makes him out to be more dim-witted than his scholastic record shows. To infer that it just might, just maybe be one your favorite snacks, which he admits that he was allowed to have often before retiring, is not a great leap of logic even for a 10 yr old. If BR did in fact forget this aspect of what occurred in the house on the most momentous night of his young life, then I suggest that ,as a result. nothing that he claims to remember of that evening and morning can be taken all that seriously.
In conclusion, I am not saying that BDI. I am just exploring problematic details of this bewildering case.

I don't think the Whites forgot or are lying about not serving pineapple. Steve Thomas thinks the pineapple in JonBenet's system came from that bowl. I'm going with him.

I assume that the person who wrote the ransom note put the bowl in front of JonBenet. There's no reason to assume that Burke was present.

Once you've clunked her on the head, there's no reason to get rid of the bowl: they're going to find pineapple in her body. But I think in Patsy's place, I would have wiped my fingerprints off. Maybe she forgot.

 

[icedtea4me]

I don't think the Whites forgot or are lying about not serving pineapple. Steve Thomas thinks the pineapple in JonBenet's system came from that bowl. I'm going with him.

I assume that the person who wrote the ransom note put the bowl in front of JonBenet. There's no reason to assume that Burke was present.

Once you've clunked her on the head, there's no reason to get rid of the bowl: they're going to find pineapple in her body. But I think in Patsy's place, I would have wiped my fingerprints off. Maybe she forgot.

I think the chaos that preceded the blow to the head totally obliterated anything mundane that transpired when they got home. They had to make the events as simple as possible. We got home. She was sleeping. We put her to bed.

 

[David Rogers]

And I thought the idea was that JonBenet was being actively abused at the party, hence the 911 call. Why would grandpa fly to Georgia to confront the abuser if the abuser is there in Colorado?

Maybe at the party is she they found out about it?

 

[proust20]

Then again, the killer may have been unaware that JB ate some pineapple. If so, he/she should not have known that the bowl needed to be wiped down. The autopsy results could have been a surprise. Just sayin'.
Dr Wecht has stated that head blow came after the strangulation. Which type of lethal force was meant to cover for the other sort? No matter where you turn with the Rs, there are opposite opinions. Although, naturally, opinions are not facts.

 

[neesaki]

Has anyone seen this article? I think it’s considered MSM.
Apologies if it’s been posted on another thread but I couldn’t find it. Which is one of my questions, the other being, is it GM in the photo?
JonBenét Ramsey & Ghislaine Maxwell Photo: Is She Standing Behind JonBenet?

 

[UKGuy]

Then again, the killer may have been unaware that JB ate some pineapple. If so, he/she should not have known that the bowl needed to be wiped down. The autopsy results could have been a surprise. Just sayin'.
Dr Wecht has stated that head blow came after the strangulation. Which type of lethal force was meant to cover for the other sort? No matter where you turn with the Rs, there are opposite opinions. Although, naturally, opinions are not facts.

proust20,
The whole family just forgot all about events in the kitchen/breakfast bar. They patently bore no relation to her death, despite heroic theories about Jonbenet being whacked on the head for taking a piece of pineapple?

The action took place upstairs in her bedroom, check the crime-scene photos out, read the reports regarding clothing left on the floor, fecal matter on objects, and the general disarray, even the wine-cellar was tidier!

One qualification about her bedroom is it could represent a prior staging, one abandoned in favor of the basement abduction?

I agree with Dr. Wecht that the head blow was struck after manual strangulation, with the ligature/paintbrush an attempt to obscure this.

The wine-cellar is all about staging, not much in there including any Christmas gifts, was originally in there.

Check out what the Pugh family have to say regarding the contents of the wine-cellar, they moved all the Christmas decorations from the cellar to upstairs, so we have independent witness's regarding its contents.

If so, he/she should not have known that the bowl needed to be wiped down.

The whole table required cleaning as it was proof JonBenet never went straight to bed. Its likely the parents were late to the crime-scene, and the pineapple snack was long forgotten about in the panic of staging JonBenet's death?

.

 

[jslk]

Has anyone seen this article? I think it’s considered MSM.
Apologies if it’s been posted on another thread but I couldn’t find it. Which is one of my questions, the other being, is it GM in the photo?
JonBenét Ramsey & Ghislaine Maxwell Photo: Is She Standing Behind JonBenet?

It could be - I dont think it can be ruled in or out as GM without further details. Was GM even in the correct geographical area at the time? Are there any known links between JE/GM and pageanting? Or within the business world?

I think ideally you'd want to be able to see more face and head features like ears to be able to comment more confidently.

 

[neesaki]

It could be - I dont think it can be ruled in or out as GM without further details. Was GM even in the correct geographical area at the time? Are there any known links between JE/GM and pageanting? Or within the business world?

I think ideally you'd want to be able to see more face and head features like ears to be able to comment more confidently.

Yes, you're totally correct. I just always have "questions". You know how that is, right?

 

[retrometro]

Random question: over the years, I've heard ocassional references to authorities having specifc evidence/details about the casethat aren't public knowledge. I realize this is common in criminal investigations. That having been said, it seems like so much has been written about this case and that so many documents have been released over the years that I'm curious: does anyone have any speculation about what the unreleased evidence might be?? Other than the grand jury documents, are there any documents we know of that have been surpressed? Just curious.

(Usual Disclaimer: I personally lean in the direction of PDI, but I'm open to other theories of what happened).

 

[UKGuy]

Random question: over the years, I've heard ocassional references to authorities having specifc evidence/details about the casethat aren't public knowledge. I realize this is common in criminal investigations. That having been said, it seems like so much has been written about this case and that so many documents have been released over the years that I'm curious: does anyone have any speculation about what the unreleased evidence might be?? Other than the grand jury documents, are there any documents we know of that have been surpressed? Just curious.

(Usual Disclaimer: I personally lean in the direction of PDI, but I'm open to other theories of what happened).

retrometro,
The vast majority of the forensic evidence gathered and the reports generated have never been released, e.g. alleged soiled pajama bottoms in JonBenet's bedroom, dna analysis and reports related to each Ramsey, i.e. dna found deposited on JonBenet.

Lab results related to the Coroner's findings and report, video and transcript of the Ramsey interviews, the list is really quite large.

Most of it is sitting in an evidence cage in a depository somewhere in Colorado state, once the case is not a cold-case maybe some it will be released?

Have you any thoughts as to why Patsy decided on moving JonBenet to the basement rather than just leave her in her bedroom, as relocating her increased the forensic evidence available?

.

 

[Logic101]

I would venture to say, that had there been previously undisclosed information, Kolar would have provided it, in order to promote his book and theory.

For sure, had there been as many feces smeared items, as alleged by Kolar, in JonBenet’s bedroom, you would have needed a gas mask just to enter the room! The stench would have been unbearable!

 

[icedtea4me]

retrometro,
The vast majority of the forensic evidence gathered and the reports generated have never been released, e.g. alleged soiled pajama bottoms in JonBenet's bedroom, dna analysis and reports related to each Ramsey, i.e. dna found deposited on JonBenet.

Lab results related to the Coroner's findings and report, video and transcript of the Ramsey interviews, the list is really quite large.

Most of it is sitting in an evidence cage in a depository somewhere in Colorado state, once the case is not a cold-case maybe some it will be released?

Have you any thoughts as to why Patsy decided on moving JonBenet to the basement rather than just leave her in her bedroom, as relocating her increased the forensic evidence available?

.

I think JonBenet was placed in the wine cellar so she could hopefully be the equivalent of Lazarus.

 

[Venom]

retrometro,
The vast majority of the forensic evidence gathered and the reports generated have never been released, e.g. alleged soiled pajama bottoms in JonBenet's bedroom, dna analysis and reports related to each Ramsey, i.e. dna found deposited on JonBenet.

Lab results related to the Coroner's findings and report, video and transcript of the Ramsey interviews, the list is really quite large.

Most of it is sitting in an evidence cage in a depository somewhere in Colorado state, once the case is not a cold-case maybe some it will be released?

Have you any thoughts as to why Patsy decided on moving JonBenet to the basement rather than just leave her in her bedroom, as relocating her increased the forensic evidence available?

.

Maybe PR decided to move her to the basement to just to get her out of sight as she didn't want to see what had happened? If PR was going about cleaning things up/staging, maybe seeing her dead daughter was too much and she thought to get her out of sight, out of mind?

 

[proust20]

A piece of evidence which I believe has never been released is the nature of the 'birefrigement' material found on JB. This should reveal much about the the assault upon her and also about the degree of staging. I suppose that LE assumes that only those involved with the murder would be able to identify what was used to penetrate JB.
JB's bedroom does seem a mess. The R's, who had a housekeeper, just had a party in the house. With PR's goals of having a picture perfect home, it's reasonable to think that she would have wanted everything ship shape for that event. Of course, kids can make a mess quickly; and perhaps, LPH was coming in the next day to clean up.
Dr Wecht believes that JB was killed outside the WC due to a urine stain there. While it is certainly possible that JB was killed in her bedroom, is there any physical evidence to suggest that?