Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #125

[KentuckyMama]

As a Canadian it’s totally bizarre to me how much blabbing individual members of LE have done on their own since the beginning of this case, from FB interviews to bloggers to media interviews. Where I live only official statements through press conferences or press releases are issued, very rarely are LE privately interviewed.

I agree with you, it’s really difficult to know if some of the information stated is personal opinion or the consensus of the Task Force. During the last press conference, Carter’s dramatic presentation is also an example of how mis-information can be provided due to somebody not following a scripted official release, vetted for accuracy. I have concerns about the effect of the high attention devoted to LE whenever they individually speak out. I’m reminded of the public yearning for inside information and details much the same way as interest is placed on the lives of rich and famous celebrities especially if scandal is involved.

IMO the Task Force should issue a Fact Sheet to clarify whatever information they choose to reveal, involving absolutely no speculation or innuendo. If they don’t know something they should just say so. If they choose not to address certain details to protect the integrity of the investigation, they can state that too.

For example,
- this blue eye thing. Are we to believe the killer does not have blue eyes or just the person depicted in sketch #1.
- What exactly does 18 to 40 years of age, may look younger mean? May look 18 to 40 but actual age is older? Or actual age is 18 to 40 but looks younger?
- Leazenby recently stated both men are considered POIs who police would like to talk to. Is this to say the killer might not resemble either sketch and what that’s about, that he might look like half way in-between?
- If more than one person was involved, is there reason to believe there’s any connection between the two different people in the sketches?
- The request abut the driver of the car parked at the abandoned welfare bldg lot from noon to 5pm. Was the suspect believed to be the driver of this vehicle or did LE just want to talk to somebody they had no other way of contacting.
- there’s more I’m sure......

But even these examples might convince somebody a tip on a possible suspect who they know just isn’t warranted - (whew,it can’t be him!) Especially if it’s a family member whom the tipster doesn’t want to believe could ever be responsible for the murder of two innocent teens. I’d imagine it’s easy to send in a tip on a stranger, much more difficult if it’s someone who’s involved in our day-to-day lives. JMO

Been following this case since the beginning. Haven't posted in a while. I still read along, but kinda gave up. I think a lot of people did. But only because of the ridiculous amount of inconsistencies. I can't think of much, if anything, that's absolutely known. I feel so badly for the families. There will be no justice until LE get the miniscule amount of facts they will release in order. It's a tragedy. I have no doubt each individual LE want this case to be solved. I just think they have such wildly varying opinions that there is no consensus. The result is the shameful level of professionalism we have seen so far. As you stated above, they desperately need to be *extremely* clear on what the facts are. They need to stop pretending that this will be solved as it sits now. They need the public's help. I wish someone would send your list to whomever is in charge. This really needs to be done.

 

[KentuckyMama]

Double post

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Been following this case since the beginning. Haven't posted in a while. I still read along, but kinda gave up. I think a lot of people did. But only because of the ridiculous amount of inconsistencies. I can't think of much, if anything, that's absolutely known. I feel so badly for the families. There will be no justice until LE get the miniscule amount of facts they will release in order. It's a tragedy. I have no doubt each individual LE want this case to be solved. I just think they have such wildly varying opinions that there is no consensus. The result is the shameful level of professionalism we have seen so far. As you stated above, they desperately need to be *extremely* clear on what the facts are. They need to stop pretending that this will be solved as it sits now. They need the public's help. I wish someone would send your list to whomever is in charge. This really needs to be done.

Agree. Absolutely they need the public’s help, and it’s not the pleading for somebody to send in a tip kinda help. That ship has sailed.
1) The public can’t help them if they don’t understand or trust what LE is even saying half the time. Too many voices saying contradictory things. Choose one spokesman for LE. No one else speaks about it. Check what you’re saying before you say it for accuracy and clarity. Then check it again.
2) The public can’t help LE if the public doesn’t have any idea what is important in this case. LE, keep some things to yourself but choose a handful of things that might open someone’s eyes to the killer.
Way past time for this.

 

[SMK777]

This could include visiting relatives, grown children who return for visits, grounds keepers, delivery persons and so forth. For me, the anchor is the location, and the surrounding properties. Clearly, that spot was carefully chosen.

Amateur opinion and speculation

Absolutely. Also, in terms of a groundskeeper-type person, not only would this have acquainted him with the homes, properties, and bridge area, but might have allowed him hours of fantasy which one day became a reality.

 

[SMK777]

Perhaps dilated pupils might have been the reason, that the eye color wasn't recognizable like it usual would have been? - We talked already about drugs and/or alcohol, BG might have consumed, ie. re his gait on MHB.

What Drugs Cause Dilated Pupils? | NVISION Eye Centers
Both prescription medications and intoxicating, recreational drugs can cause your pupils to dilate. If you take a prescription that might change how your eyes look or how sensitive to light they are because your pupils dilate as a side effect, your doctor will warn you. People who abuse drugs for nonmedical reasons may not expect their pupils to dilate, but it can be a sign that they are intoxicated.

Excellent point. Blue eyes could seem dark if the pupils were dilated.

 

[Cryptic]

This could include visiting relatives, grown children who return for visits, grounds keepers...

That is a very good point.

As a side note "groundkeepers" can include say, those leasing farm fields.

Not all farms in rural areas are worked by the owners or inhabitants. Rather, fields can be leased for a variety of reasons including the owner retires, owner obtains other employment and new job has time demands, farm has been inherited by adult children who don't have an interest in farming etc. etc.

These lease arrangements can be formal legal agreements, or simply be based on a handshake in smaller leases. Likewise, a leasor does not need to live in the immediate area (though I imagine that most probably do).

Instead, depending on what equipment can be transported easily, rented locally, or is available from the owner, the leasor can live a distance away. For example, I have a relative who lives and works as a machinist in town, but escapes 30 minutes away to an informally leased field because farming is "in the blood".

Then factor in that somebody leasing farm fields is more likely to be outdoorsy in regards to fishing, hunting, or hiking and thus more likely to become familiar with a nature center, a creek and various short cuts. Yet, despite his local knowledge, he would not be recognized as being local because he does not actually live in the area.

I hope the police and especially say, a deputy with farming knowledge inquires about fields being leased either formally or informally and who works them.

 

[Yuletide]

It's been too long. I, too, join the ranks that believe this is a cold case. They need a team with a fresh set of eyes that leave no stone unturned. They also need a team that is not from the area, that won't inadvertently avoid or dismiss a particular tip. The killer could be someone very close to or included in the initial investigation phase.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

We all know LE is still, in some capacity, rummaging around trying to solve this case we all care so much about.
I was just wondering how many of us, the tried and true, think, for all intents and purposes, this is a cold case now. Not what you hope, not what you wish, but what you actually think.
Maybe we can get a head count.
I sadly think it is a cold case. Something major will have to happen to energize it.

 

[SMK777]

We all know LE is still, in some capacity, rummaging around trying to solve this case we all care so much about.
I was just wondering how many of us, the tried and true, think, for all intents and purposes, this is a cold case now. Not what you hope, not what you wish, but what you actually think.
Maybe we can get a head count.
I sadly think it is a cold case. Something major will have to happen to energize it.

You can count me in, among others.

 

[JDough]

We all know LE is still, in some capacity, rummaging around trying to solve this case we all care so much about.
I was just wondering how many of us, the tried and true, think, for all intents and purposes, this is a cold case now. Not what you hope, not what you wish, but what you actually think.
Maybe we can get a head count.
I sadly think it is a cold case. Something major will have to happen to energize it.

As the mother of a murdered child, I think I may have a different point of view?

I fully believe the case is stalled, not cold. I just haven't (quite) joined the ranks of this being a cold case. Here's why:

• A cold case is an unsolved criminal investigation which remains open pending the discovery of new evidence. (Meaning they are no longer receiving tips, and have investigated every possible piece of evidence collected without the ability to move forward, make an arrest, or solve the case).
• I don't believe investigators are no longer receiving tips. I believe they have not received the tip needed to make an arrest. The one that places their POI(s) at the crime scene.
• IMO, Investigators have a very short list of suspects (possibly with only one or two names).
• There (again, IMO) are many things going on behind the scene that we, the public, are unaware of.
• I would not be surprised if there is yet another group of specialists/professionals going back to the beginning and reviewing both the criminal investigation (i.e.; crime scene, the contents of Libby's phone, photo/video enhancements, early witness interviews, DNA collected both at the crime scene, and from individuals who provided a sample, etc.), and the large number of tips.
• Despite the back-and-forth statements regarding DNA, I believe there was some found at the scene. And, I believe this DNA belongs to BG. My best guess (at this point), is that this DNA can be explained away for some reason.
• Investigators working on the case have contacted numerous high-profile specialists that have indicated this case can be solved. It will just be an uphill battle. (Thus the reason that after three years the case remains "unsolved").
• Someone knows who did this. They, for whatever reason (fear, uncertainty, the possibility of being arrested for withholding information), have not contacted authorities.

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I still have hope the case is being worked on a daily basis, that there will be an arrest, the case will prosecuted, and the person(s) responsible will be held accountable.

 

[rosesfromangels]

We all know LE is still, in some capacity, rummaging around trying to solve this case we all care so much about.
I was just wondering how many of us, the tried and true, think, for all intents and purposes, this is a cold case now. Not what you hope, not what you wish, but what you actually think.
Maybe we can get a head count.
I sadly think it is a cold case. Something major will have to happen to energize it.

First of all, thank you for using "intents and purposes" in the correct form. : )
I *do not* think this is a cold case. I think the Perp is somewhere in their 30K (?!) leads, and they are still working through them and investigating. That is a passle of information to sort through. There is an interesting aspect to the time decay as well, that may prove useful....

I suspect more than a few folks have someone in their sites as a POI, and are closely observing them. LE may very well have them under observation as well. If you are this demented, you can only contain that behavior to a certain degree. It will be the ordinary, the every day, that will trigger something that will lead to an arrest.....which should be coming along here soon. Let us pray this is so.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Yemelyan]

We all know LE is still, in some capacity, rummaging around trying to solve this case we all care so much about.
I was just wondering how many of us, the tried and true, think, for all intents and purposes, this is a cold case now. Not what you hope, not what you wish, but what you actually think.
Maybe we can get a head count.
I sadly think it is a cold case. Something major will have to happen to energize it.

I know I will be in the minority but I don't think it's cold. I think they are working on things behind the scenes that we don't know about since the last press conference. This isn't based on anything in particular, just MOO.

 

[Marzipan]

That is a very good point.

As a side note "groundkeepers" can include say, those leasing farm fields.

Not all farms in rural areas are worked by the owners or inhabitants. Rather, fields can be leased for a variety of reasons including the owner retires, owner obtains other employment and new job has time demands, farm has been inherited by adult children who don't have an interest in farming etc. etc.

These lease arrangements can be formal legal agreements, or simply be based on a handshake in smaller leases. Likewise, a leasor does not need to live in the immediate area (though I imagine that most probably do).

Instead, depending on what equipment can be transported easily, rented locally, or is available from the owner, the leasor can live a distance away. For example, I have a relative who lives and works as a machinist in town, but escapes 30 minutes away to an informally leased field because farming is "in the blood".

Then factor in that somebody leasing farm fields is more likely to be outdoorsy in regards to fishing, hunting, or hiking and thus more likely to become familiar with a nature center, a creek and various short cuts. Yet, despite his local knowledge, he would not be recognized as being local because he does not actually live in the area.

I hope the police and especially say, a deputy with farming knowledge inquires about fields being leased either formally or informally and who works them.

Speaking of farming knowledge, there has also been a lot of talk of the possibility of livestock transporters. Anyone trucking live animals goes through quality assurance training to be sure they are treating animals well, protecting themselves from injury, protecting the investment, etc. there are limited trainers for this, offered through U cooperative Extension and partners. I hope they have been shown the video of BG. I think there are lots of people who haven’t heard about this case or the video.

 

[SMK777]

As the mother of a murdered child, I think I may have a different point of view?

I fully believe the case is stalled, not cold. I just haven't (quite) joined the ranks of this being a cold case. Here's why:

• A cold case is an unsolved criminal investigation which remains open pending the discovery of new evidence. (Meaning they are no longer receiving tips, and have investigated every possible piece of evidence collected without the ability to move forward, make an arrest, or solve the case).
• I don't believe investigators are no longer receiving tips. I believe they have not received the tip needed to make an arrest. The one that places their POI(s) at the crime scene.
• IMO, Investigators have a very short list of suspects (possibly with only one or two names).
• There (again, IMO) are many things going on behind the scene that we, the public, are unaware of.
• I would not be surprised if there is yet another group of specialists/professionals going back to the beginning and reviewing both the criminal investigation (i.e.; crime scene, the contents of Libby's phone, photo/video enhancements, early witness interviews, DNA collected both at the crime scene, and from individuals who provided a sample, etc.), and the large number of tips.
• Despite the back-and-forth statements regarding DNA, I believe there was some found at the scene. And, I believe this DNA belongs to BG. My best guess (at this point), is that this DNA can be explained away for some reason.
• Investigators working on the case have contacted numerous high-profile specialists that have indicated this case can be solved. It will just be an uphill battle. (Thus the reason that after three years the case remains "unsolved").
• Someone knows who did this. They, for whatever reason (fear, uncertainty, the possibility of being arrested for withholding information), have not contacted authorities.

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I still have hope the case is being worked on a daily basis, that there will be an arrest, the case will prosecuted, and the person(s) responsible will be held accountable.

Thank you for this illuminating and compelling post. I’m so sorry to hear that your own child was murdered; my heart goes out to you.

 

[SMK777]

First of all, thank you for using "intents and purposes" in the correct form. : )
I *do not* think this is a cold case. I think the Perp is somewhere in their 30K (?!) leads, and they are still working through them and investigating. That is a passle of information to sort through. There is an interesting aspect to the time decay as well, that may prove useful....

I suspect more than a few folks have someone in their sites as a POI, and are closely observing them. LE may very well have them under observation as well. If you are this demented, you can only contain that behavior to a certain degree. It will be the ordinary, the every day, that will trigger something that will lead to an arrest.....which should be coming along here soon. Let us pray this is so.

Amateur opinion and speculation

Praying you’re right. I suppose when I agreed that the case was “cold” I actually meant “stalled” because I know there are still original tips that can solve it. Just gets very frustrating and I think the last press conferences 2019 made things worse with it’s misleading talk.

 

[SMK777]

I would not be surprised if there is yet another group of specialists/professionals going back to the beginning and reviewing both the criminal investigation (i.e.; crime scene, the contents of Libby's phone, photo/video enhancements, early witness interviews, DNA collected both at the crime scene, and from individuals who provided a sample, etc.), and the large number of tips.

Really, really hoping you’re right.

 

[JDough]

Thank you for this illuminating and compelling post. I’m so sorry to hear that your own child was murdered; my heart goes out to you.

Perhaps this is the reason I refuse to give up hope! I really believe this case will be solved, and the families will receive the answers they've been waiting for.

 

[Rossymom]

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I still have hope the case is being worked on a daily basis, that there will be an arrest, the case will prosecuted, and the person(s) responsible will be held accountable.

I share your unpopular opinion.

 

[Charlot123]

10 Baffling Wives of Serial Killers
10 Baffling Wives of Serial Killers - Listverse

Until her husband, Gary Ridgeway, confessed two years after his arrest, Judith Mawson refused to believe he had killed 70 people and was the person authorities had nicknamed the Green River Serial Killer. Indeed, they were happily married for 13 years, and she even told reporters that “he made me smile every day” and was the “perfect husband.”

Well...

I see in all these stories a strange analogy with the Bluebeard, a famous folk tale, that has permeated many cultures in different forms.

Bluebeard - Wikipedia

The interpretation of the tale is interesting. The key that the Bluebeard leaves to his young wife is the key of knowledge. She can either use it - and find out the terrible truth and risk her own life - but become an adult. Or, she’d never use it, and remain the youngest, the prettiest, toy of a rich old man.

The girl in the tale chose to know the truth. The 10 wives in the article you listed chose not to, and never grew up morally. But maybe they are alive because of this, too.

There is one more interesting moment in the tale. The previous six wives were killed for their curiosity. What helped the last one? Strong community that stood for her, connection with her sisters, and their husbands. As well as altruism after his death.

I suspect most of the wives of the serial killers were lonely and disconnected from the communities, and it played a role in their behavior.

But why is the press accusing some lonely, and not so smart, women, if the police in some cases was equally blind?

Liz Kendall, who essentially reported on Ted Bundy, but was dismissed by Seattle Police. (“We have no time for girlfriends”).


Meet Elizabeth Kloepfer: The Woman Who Survived A Relationship With Ted Bundy

As to Gary Ridgeway, the police interviewed him and let him go.

So why blame isolated, probability, weak and not especially smart women, when the whole PDs messed up the cases?

The last case, Chikatilo’s wife, may be different. After all, 4 people were executed before he was caught. But it is true that he was always impotent with her, and their kids were conceived in an unconventional way.

 

[Twolabs]

Perhaps this is the reason I refuse to give up hope! I really believe this case will be solved, and the families will receive the answers they've been waiting for.

Yes thank you for your beautiful post. I think I will sit on your side of the fence for awhile. God bless and I too hope this case gets solved soon. It has been way to long!