Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *Arrests* #50

[janx]

Any speculation as to when the trial would begin? Sorry if it was answered in the meeting earlier. I missed most of it

See @Niner 's post on pg. 63 of this thread for some dates.

 

[Onsdag]

Is Means married? Just wondering....moo

Per his interview he has kids, so presumably he is married, or at least was at some point. I don't know how to link the video directly, but it's in this article - not the first video but the last one at the bottom of the page - and the comment begins at 6:39:

"My belief is when I go home and talk to my kids - and they're well aware of this case - that I am doing what a person is entitled to do, as a right, as a citizen of our country, guilty or not, right?"

Lori Vallow Daybell to remain in jail on $1 million bail | East Idaho News

But this discussion forum isn't about Mr. Means' marital status, but rather about the case at hand. Is it possible Lori could try and make moves against a married man? Sure, I suppose it is within the realm of possibility as she's done it before... but I'd rather not this discussion go down that road. Mr. Means is her attorney and has a right and duty to spend as much time with his client as he deems necessary to help her case. We don't need to be introducing nasty speculation and rumors about anything that goes beyond that. JMHO.

 

[RickshawFan]

My impression from MG in the pink jacket interview: she makes me very uncomfortable. I've been trying to figure out why.

1. She's used to being in front of a camera and likes it. She keeps the words flowing easily.

2. She's very detached. Imagine talking about her role on the witness stand and evaluating it for "the best thing that happened today", with smiles.

3. She's very smug. I get the feeling she's trying to teach me about righteousness using her as a model. This is not going over well with me AT ALL.

I didn't feel this way about MG in her previous interviews. In those, she seemed appropriately humble. Now she seems very pleased with herself, and I'm finding myself resentful at her arrogance.

 

[indicolite22]

I suppose that’s what I’m trying to get across. So she didn’t know they were dead. But she had to know they were disposed of. But again, she left her four boys for her new life, so maybe she didn’t care. And hey, I apologize in advance if I sound harsh. I am a mom and I won’t cut her any slack. That whole bunch didn’t like children.

Just curious, what do you mean by "disposed of"? Left with someone / on their own? If she thought that JJ was with Kay and Tylee at BYU or with friends (what friends?), that's not sinister. Of course I agree that all the adult members of this cult were selfish and didn't think much of children.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Yes they sure did. That comment was not a slap against Mr. Wood.

I guess I am taking my cue from everything Melanie Gibbs has said. She claims to be a devout LDS member but she was making podcasts about strange beliefs before she met Lori. I listened to a podcast she did with Lori and some guy. He introduced Lori as “new” but said he had known MG for a long time and that this was not her first podcast. MG may have just come back to her faith. But she was “out there” for a while and she admired Chad every bit as much as Lori did.

So, it just makes me wonder how many people claim to be LDS but are in smaller, cult like groups. Someone on a YouTube channel was saying there were a LOT of the AVOW and PAP members in and around Rexburg. I wonder how all of them are feeling about their zombie beliefs right now?

We have had thousands of posts about LDS. As I am a firm and steady offender of wanting to understand more and more about how so many of these LDS off shoots there are, and why they are there.
But, I think for many here---the true mainstream LDS is not on trial here, and it does offend many to discuss the two together.

However the posts exist --back in the March-May threads and are truly informative educative and enlightening posts by many LDS members, and many professional services folks. I suggest you go back, rather than start anything up again... but just my opinion.

It is hard to get a handle on how many AVOW and PAP people are out there. And there are plenty of other LDS-stretched groups besides these two. But they are certainly NOT all LDS related.

Their groups are protected behind layers of pay walls. Some people think these groups have lessened because of the negative publicity. I have read some experts "out there" that say these groups always pop back up and swell... because they truly do convince people there is yet a higher power and by becoming "enlightened" they will gain.


moo.

 

[Boxer]

One thing I would like to know and could be potentially damning to his defense is how long was AC at CDs property. Was there enough time for Alex to dig a grave, start a fire, burn a corpse, retrieve it from the fire, and then bury it. That would requires him being there for hours and you would also need to suspend the belief that someone could come on your property and not only him but his children and his neighbors would not of noticed this. Mind you his daughter and her family live directly across the street from them too.

My guess is that CD wanted as much control as possible and where better to have that than his own backyard. There, no stranger was going to be walking their dog that would dig up an area up that smelled odd and discover remains. To get on that property, a dog would have to get through a fence and a person would need to be invited or have probable cause to obtain a search warrant.

Chad and Lori thought they were in the clear throughout October and most of November, until that late November welfare check occurred. And then, once MG supported the lie (at least temporarily), they thought they were in the clear again during their Thanksgiving trip to California with Chad's children. It was only after MG contacted Chad and Lori on Dec 8 that they knew (or should have known) the proverbial s*** was going to hit the fan.

Agree.
But it takes push apparently to keep inveatigations going.
How scary that these kids could drop off the radar.

 

[Emi]

Justin Lum @jlumfox10 28s
NEW: Chandler PD lead detective on Charles Vallow death investigation says he’s “close” to submitting charges to Maricopa Co. Attorney. “Close” may be 6 months or more. 4 search warrants out for digital data linked to Lori Vallow. Conspiracy to commit murder is potential charge.

 

[Forever Young]

Not really. It can definitely seem enmeshed. But things have changed a lot in the last 30 years, in regards to the rights of women, and children.

Yes, I know, thankfully. Still a long way to go according to those that are on the outside looking in. MOO

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Yes they sure did. That comment was not a slap against Mr. Wood.

I guess I am taking my cue from everything Melanie Gibbs has said. She claims to be a devout LDS member but she was making podcasts about strange beliefs before she met Lori. I listened to a podcast she did with Lori and some guy. He introduced Lori as “new” but said he had known MG for a long time and that this was not her first podcast. MG may have just come back to her faith. But she was “out there” for a while and she admired Chad every bit as much as Lori did.

So, it just makes me wonder how many people claim to be LDS but are in smaller, cult like groups. Someone on a YouTube channel was saying there were a LOT of the AVOW and PAP members in and around Rexburg. I wonder how all of them are feeling about their zombie beliefs right now?

And btw.... I believe that Melanie Gibb WAS moving out on these tangents. But she had strong enough bonds to her mainstream LDS that she knew she had to come back and "stay there". for now anyway. She must be mainstream if she is going to be in the limelight. She could be humiliated or have other problems with the church heirarchy. And maybe she has... but she is certainly broadcasting her love with the mainstream church, and I actually believe her when she is trying to get other Chad believers to come back to the fold.

 

[indicolite22]

Not even the money that they so desperately craved...Oh, the irony of it all...So many murders...so much money...so little time to spend it...Had they known where it would all end, would they have chosen the same path?

I somehow think that CD would not have. Meeting LVD was his downfall. IMO, CD was a Humpty Dumpty taken in by the popular HS cheerleader that he always wished to have but never could compete with the popular HS athlete. He was duped and apparently willing to do anything to get her.

Everything comes with a price, Chad. Murder, lust, money...What I wouldn't give to know what he is thinking, at this point.

JMO.

I don't think that prisoners are permitted to contact other prisoners. They can still communicate through their lawyers, though.

I think that the only thing these two regret is getting caught. Otherwise they would have confessed IMO. If they had to redo it all over again they would try to make fewer mistakes.

 

[BUF]

Mods, may we please get a new thread.

I’ll alert my post.

 

[janx]

Justin Lum @jlumfox10 28s
NEW: Chandler PD lead detective on Charles Vallow death investigation says he’s “close” to submitting charges to Maricopa Co. Attorney. “Close” may be 6 months or more. 4 search warrants out for digital data linked to Lori Vallow. Conspiracy to commit murder is potential charge.

Wow. Does she know this?

 

[RickshawFan]

Warning - my response is graphic:

I don't think the fact that part of the remains were found uncharred would necessarily mean that Tylee's body was dismembered before it was burned. I think when they decided burning was ineffective because it took longer or smelled more than they could tolerate, then whatever tools they were using to remove the body broke it apart as they stirred and lifted it, thus exposing uncharred tissue at those various points where it broke apart.

Horrifying, either way.

IMO the word "dismembered" means someone deliberately separated limb from limb. It doesn't mean "body parts separated all by themselves".

 

[nhmemorymaker]

This actually does not surprise me. LVD has had her "CTJ moment" that this is real, and she isn't going to bat her eyelashes, show some cleavage and walk away. Or rather, sashay away, wriggling her hips. She is working on the "new" plan to be the "Hedda Nussbaum" to CD.

Not gonna work.

Hedda Nussbaum?? case??

 

[ontoyou]

Found an interesting article written by a UCLA Law School Professor, highlighted some info that I found... interesting:

Why Waive the Prelim?
The reasons the defense might waive the right to a preliminary hearing include:

• The defendant intends to plead guilty and wants to avoid publicity (and expense, if the defendant is represented by private counsel).
• The defendant is guilty of more than the charged offenses and fears further charges from the potentially damning evidence that may come out at the preliminary hearing. Also, if the facts of the case are particularly nasty, and the defendant plans to plead guilty anyway, the less the sentencing judge hears about the facts, the better for the defendant.
• The prosecution’s case is strong, and the defense fears that prosecution witnesses may become so entrenched in their positions once they testify under oath at a prelim that they may become angry (or angrier) with the defendant and possibly refuse later interviews requested by the defense as it prepares for trial.
• The prosecution intends to call witnesses at the prelim who may be unavailable at the time of trial. If the prelim goes forward, this testimony will be available in the form of transcripts from the prelim for the prosecution to use at trial. By waiving the prelim, the defendant may prevent the testimony from coming in when trial time rolls around.
• The defendant wants to stall in the hopes that by the time the case comes to trial, the prosecution’s witnesses will have either disappeared, forgotten, or become confused about what happened during the alleged crime. In this situation, the defense may waive the prelim and move for several continuances (delays) of the trial date.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

BBM. Not only to salvage her reputation...I feel certain that she wants to remain in good standing with the LDS church.

absolutely.

 

[Boxer]

My guess is that CD wanted as much control as possible and where better to have that than his own backyard. There, no stranger was going to be walking their dog that would dig up an area up that smelled odd and discover remains. To get on that property, a dog would have to get through a fence and a person would need to be invited or have probable cause to obtain a search warrant.

Chad and Lori thought they were in the clear throughout October and most of November, until that late November welfare check occurred. And then, once MG supported the lie (at least temporarily), they thought they were in the clear again during their Thanksgiving trip to California with Chad's children. It was only after MG contacted Chad and Lori on Dec 8 that they knew (or should have known) the proverbial s*** was going to hit the fan.

MOO
I agree with idea that CD would be worried about a random burial spot, that it is hard to be sure about the security of a "wilderness" or rural clandestine burial, let alone two.
Access is to any wild place is naturally limited to its trailheads or similar, and it takes a vehicle to get to those access points.
People access to wilderess areas all the time and you bet they are calling the police seeing anything supicious, especially digging.
In random rural areas people notice vehicles - it is hit or miss if you are being watched.

Minus Alex leaving a digital trail, would they even have been found?

 

[janx]

Found an interesting article written by a UCLA Law School Professor, highlighted some info that I found... interesting:

Why Waive the Prelim?
The reasons the defense might waive the right to a preliminary hearing include:

• The defendant intends to plead guilty and wants to avoid publicity (and expense, if the defendant is represented by private counsel).
• The defendant is guilty of more than the charged offenses and fears further charges from the potentially damning evidence that may come out at the preliminary hearing. Also, if the facts of the case are particularly nasty, and the defendant plans to plead guilty anyway, the less the sentencing judge hears about the facts, the better for the defendant.
• The prosecution’s case is strong, and the defense fears that prosecution witnesses may become so entrenched in their positions once they testify under oath at a prelim that they may become angry (or angrier) with the defendant and possibly refuse later interviews requested by the defense as it prepares for trial.
• The prosecution intends to call witnesses at the prelim who may be unavailable at the time of trial. If the prelim goes forward, this testimony will be available in the form of transcripts from the prelim for the prosecution to use at trial. By waiving the prelim, the defendant may prevent the testimony from coming in when trial time rolls around.
• The defendant wants to stall in the hopes that by the time the case comes to trial, the prosecution’s witnesses will have either disappeared, forgotten, or become confused about what happened during the alleged crime. In this situation, the defense may waive the prelim and move for several continuances (delays) of the trial date.

Useful info; thank you.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I got that impression, too; that Tylee was not likable to MG, when in fact, if Tylee acted out, it might have been her way to get the attention of MG. Picking on someone so that they can be drawn into the conversation as an adult.

But the other thing that bothers me is that Lori supposedly thought at some point that Tylee was her sister reincarnated.

I initially thought of Stacy and wondered if Lori felt the same way about Stacy as she did about Tylee. Or, was it the infant deceased sister Laura, whom Lori never knew, but must have heard about being nearly her namesake.

Pretty sure it was Stacey, because I believe Lori used her name, or identified something that was clearly about Stacey.

Ohhhhh... how I wish we could go all the way back to this other Cox case... maybe in Melani BP's trial!! wishes.

 

[indicolite22]

My impression from MG in the pink jacket interview: she makes me very uncomfortable. I've been trying to figure out why.

1. She's used to being in front of a camera and likes it. She keeps the words flowing easily.

2. She's very detached. Imagine talking about her role on the witness stand and evaluating it for "the best thing that happened today", with smiles.

3. She's very smug. I get the feeling she's trying to teach me about righteousness using her as a model. This is not going over well with me AT ALL.

I didn't feel this way about MG in her previous interviews. In those, she seemed appropriately humble. Now she seems very pleased with herself, and I'm finding myself resentful at her arrogance.

On the other hand, I'm glad she's getting more confident. She'll need it in court after appearing quite nervous at her cross examination.