GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam Co, 2 May 2014 - #13

[dotr]

Aug 10 2020
Can Psychology Help Solve a Murder Mystery? Cold Case
''The motive for these murders is just as elusive as the killers themselves:

• murder for hire? Contract killers have no reason to linger around a crime scene chopping of heads, chaining concrete blocks to victims, and transporting one victim 6 miles across a lake while leaving the other victim at the crime scene.
• Robbery (especially for valuables the killers expected to find but which the victims did not have)? The house would have been ransacked. It was found neat and clean, with no sign of struggle, and with nothing missing.
• Vengeance? The Dermonds were an elderly, church-going couple in their late 80s, well-liked in their community. No one has been able to identify a suspect who would want them dead.
• Spree killing? Possibly, but would have to be someone familiar with the lake to find the Dermonds’ house via boat. Therefore, probably residing locally at that time.
• Deranged, psychotic killers? No. In spite of the decapitation and corpse in the lake, the murders contain a degree of care and planning that would be impossible for a psychotic killer.

This article presents the basic facts of the case and establishes the bizarre and mysterious circumstances of the crime. In Part 2 I apply psychological principles to the available facts and offer suggestions and recommendations that may aid law enforcement.''

 

[dotr]

Aug 10 2020 Lengthy, detailed article.
Part 2
Can Psychology Help Solve a Murder Mystery? Analysis
''We need many more pieces of the puzzle. To find them and pull them together, I recommend a process known as triangulation:

• Triangulation of data
• Triangulation of methods
• Triangulation of investigators

Simply put, triangulation involves combining, comparing, and contrasting different approaches to problem-solving.''

• ''As would be obvious to Sheriff Sills, the criminals were familiar with Lake Oconee and surrounding area. They are probably locals, or were at the time of the murders. However, the lake attracts visitors from far and wide, so many outsiders are also familiar with the area. Still, outsiders would be unlikely to know the Dermonds or to have any reason to commit such pointless violence against them.
• Sheriff Sills believes Mr. Dermond’s head was removed to prevent ballistics testing of the bullet. He may be right. However, I would not rule out the possibility that the killer took the head as a trophy. The brutality of this crime, the time that the killers spent decapitating Mr. Dermond, chaining concrete blocks to Mrs. Dermond, and transporting her 6 miles across the lake suggests an element of sadistic delight. These activities are all beyond what was efficient for the killers. They were enjoying this. Mr. Dermond’s head could turn up as evidence once the right suspects are identified. ''

 

[dotr]

I havent been able to read back through all the threads but if someone were killed a day or so before being decapitated would there be a lot of blood?
Just realized how ridiculous this question was. Sorry I havent been up on this case in months.

Sorry for 3 posts in a row.. rbbm.
Regarding the blood..
The Macabre Murders of Russell and Shirley Dermond

The Dermonds’ former home in 2017 — Source: The Telegraph

“There was no sign of a struggle. It was obvious to me that the decapitation had been done post-mortem…if you’ve ever seen an arterial wound, it spurts blood everywhere and we didn’t have that there.”

Thank God for small favors.

Whoever killed Russell had placed towels around the pool of blood surrounding his body to prevent it from seeping under the garage door and onto the driveway. It was clear to Sills that the murderer(s) wanted to make sure the killing went unnoticed for as long as possible.''

 

[annemc2]

@dotr No need to apologize for sharing these amazing three links. You should be saying "you're welcome, everyone" bahahaa!

 

[68 Camaro]

I wonder if someone thought the Dermonds saw or heard something, so someone had them killed to keep it private. Maybe someone offered Russell some insider information and later realized it was a bad idea. Maybe one of them saw a cheating spouse leaving a lovers house. I think someone close to them was involved, but they hired professional or semi-professional help.

 

[AliceInPain]

I haven't kept up to date with any updates in this case since it came to a standstill years ago, but I remember LE finding Shirley in the lake and saying the way she'd been put there she was never meant to be found.

My thinking at the time was that it was obviously directed at one of their children.
Something like, imagine having your hero (father ) dead like that, and your mother, the one who would always love you unconditionally, gone forever.

 

[Seattle1]

I'm wondering if the new youtube team Chris and Mike, retired investigators/profilers, (Profiling Evil) would consider taking a look at this case.

I think I'll submit it to them!

 

[dotr]

Possible re post of very lengthy, detailed article including post mortem report , maps ect. RBBM.
May 6 2019 Author: Jessica Noll
GONE COLD | A lake with no leads: Who killed the Dermonds? | 11alive.com

''At 3 p.m., the rescue crew retrieves the white, female body from the water. They hoist her into the boat and onto a large blue tarp.

She has two red cinder blocks tied around both of her ankles and over her white socks with a parachute cord, in an effort to weigh her down in the water. The cement blocks are inside a blueish-gray mesh bag, a tad larger than a laundry bag.''


Both murders were likely committed at another site other than their home—and that it was not a random crime, Sills said.''

“Mrs. Dermond, the injuries she sustained, almost certainly should have left some physical evidence that wasn’t present at the home. So, she might not have been murdered there. Or neither he. All we know is Mr. Dermond’s head was removed there. There’s physical evidence of that,” he said.

“And there really isn’t physical evidence of anything more than that at this home and obviously she was found some five miles to six miles away, and had been disposed of by boat. It literally could have happened on a boat. It could have happened anywhere, but somewhere in the vicinity of that.”

''The sheriff has started looking outside the box and outside of Georgia for help. And possibly a magical answer.

“Right now, we’re following up on cases that are similar – and let me stress, there haven’t been any cases that are truly similar – but every time an elderly couple is murdered or something like that – one in North Carolina recently – and I’ve followed up on there. Anything that looks like it remotely might be some type of decapitation when we’re hearing about something like that we’re following up on it, but in reality, that’s about all we’re doing right now.”
...................................................................................................................................
Random thoughts, imo, speculation.
Could the murders have been committed by a man AND woman?
Is it common in the area to have parachute rope?
What about red cinder blocks?
Is there a laundry mat near the grocery store shown in youtube video posted above^?
Do campers, staff ect.at the camp the grandchildren (not suggesting the g.kids involved) attended bring their own laundry bag?
Have the couple seen throughout the youtube cctv been identified/questioned ect. the couple seen entering the store shortly after RD?
IE, the guy wearing a red ball hat?

 

[dotr]

It would be interesting if any of the young women who became pregnant, had children whose DNA was eventually tested /sent to an ancestry site ect, and the results showed a connection to the "physical evidence" collected in the Dermond murders.

If indeed the missing head was meant to send a message, one might wonder if it represented the"seizing and diminishing of Mr Dermond's "power " - as head of a company, head of the household ect.?
Again, if the beheading was a message, wondering if the church-going Dermonds happened to be Baptists...
Beheading of John the Baptist - Wikipedia

All just complete speculation, imo, fwiw.rbbm.

5 years later, murders of Lake Oconee couple continue to confound
''But the Dermond case has weighed on him like none other in his 46-year career — and that includes his decision, as a first-term sheriff, to take on the powerful United Nuwaubian Nation of Moors, a black religious sect that had constructed an Egyptian-style compound on 440 acres in Eatonton, Putnam’s county seat.

The cult’s leader, Dwight “Malachi” York, would eventually designate the land a sovereign nation.

Sills’ predecessor had steered clear of the Nuwaubians. But the new sheriff, sensing the sect was dividing his community along racial lines, challenged them on zoning violations''.

''But Sills stood firm, and after area doctors informed him that an inordinate number of York’s female followers — many of them quite young — had recently become pregnant, the cult’s days were numbered.''

''While Sills has no suspects in the Dermonds case, he has collected some physical evidence that could eventually confirm the killers’ identity. Because it might compromise the investigation, the AJC is not disclosing the information shared by the sheriff.''

 

[Lawdawg99]

I have not commented in a while, but I cant believe we are allowing this case to grow colder. there is an answer. Someone knows something and is living with this evil. Raise up!

 

[kiwi50]

Have just been watching the series “Ratched” on netflix.
It reminded me of this case, one of the characters had to present the victim’s head to the person who had hired them before they got paid for the hit.

 

[Canaille]

I drove through Georgia today and over the Oconoee , thinking about this case. Wondering where his head is. Hopefully this case can be solved soon.

 

[margarita25]

Aug 10 2020
Can Psychology Help Solve a Murder Mystery? Cold Case
''The motive for these murders is just as elusive as the killers themselves:

• murder for hire? Contract killers have no reason to linger around a crime scene chopping of heads, chaining concrete blocks to victims, and transporting one victim 6 miles across a lake while leaving the other victim at the crime scene.
• Robbery (especially for valuables the killers expected to find but which the victims did not have)? The house would have been ransacked. It was found neat and clean, with no sign of struggle, and with nothing missing.
• Vengeance? The Dermonds were an elderly, church-going couple in their late 80s, well-liked in their community. No one has been able to identify a suspect who would want them dead.
• Spree killing? Possibly, but would have to be someone familiar with the lake to find the Dermonds’ house via boat. Therefore, probably residing locally at that time.
• Deranged, psychotic killers? No. In spite of the decapitation and corpse in the lake, the murders contain a degree of care and planning that would be impossible for a psychotic killer.

This article presents the basic facts of the case and establishes the bizarre and mysterious circumstances of the crime. In Part 2 I apply psychological principles to the available facts and offer suggestions and recommendations that may aid law enforcement.''

(Marking, thanks dotr
Ps: Hi @Foxfire )

 

[Jbetty567]

This remains one of my top ten cases... can’t believe there’s still nothing. With what was done to those two seniors, we have to have a motive rooted in anger/rage/
revenge/vindictiveness. Which would lead one to believe they knew their killer. Which would lead one to believe that LE could figure out who... so frustrating.

 

[Tattarattat]

I am not very familiar with this case, but will do my research and start following. I had family in Putnam County for some years. I very much remember the compound structures of the religious sect...

May I ask, does anyone have any knowledge or resources on whether hired killers perform...er, practice hits, prior to their paid contracts? Could this have been a future hired hitman’s proof of skill to prospective customers? I also acknowledge that what people perceive folks’ lives to be and what is actually occurring behind closed doors can be very different, but if this couple truly were to be of no fault to anyone and living a rather unoffensive existence, then what other reasons could we explore that someone(s) would perform such a heinous act?

This remains one of my top ten cases... can’t believe there’s still nothing. With what was done to those two seniors, we have to have a motive rooted in anger/rage/
revenge/vindictiveness. Which would lead one to believe they knew their killer. Which would lead one to believe that LE could figure out who... so frustrating.

RBBM. This makes me ponder what age, physical, and cognitive fitness the perpetrator must have possessed? I feel confident thinking it wasn’t a first or one time crime. I have other thoughts, and don’t want to be ageist, but do recognize the physical and cognitive changes we experience as we age, and what that might mean for the perpetrator as well as wondering why the Dermonds would be such an imminent threat. I guess that’s me assuming the person who carried out the killings was the offended party, and not, indeed, a hitman hired by the offended party.

 

[deugirtni]

I've been watching more than my fair share of crime/forensics shows lately, and it has caused me to keep thinking about this case. I tried to search for answers via the net, but found it difficult.. I don't *think* that police issued bullets are marked in some way to distinguish them from any other bullets (but perhaps they should be!?), but that thought occurred to me, ie if any bullet had been retrieved from the head of RD, would it be known if it was a police bullet. Assuming not, since I was unable to find any info confirming such a thing...

Then one has to wonder why the killer would be so fearful of said bullet being able to be linked to a gun - considering the killer obviously still had/has the gun in his possession at the time.

So taking that further, if the alleged gun had been used in a different murder and the killer was never caught, police would possibly be able to determine two crimes were performed by same gun/person, but if still unknown, then why such a big deal as to take the time/effort/mess/risk to remove a head?

Which led me to wonder ...... if a murder occurred somewhere and the offending bullet was retrieved AND a criminal was convicted and currently incarcerated without the actual gun ever having been located, and that bullet could be linked with said bullet in RD's head, it might cause too much grief for the already-incarcerated criminal.. or perhaps even lead to question if the correct crim was the one serving time.. or if he had an accomplice LE hadn't yet known about, etc.

Just seems an incredibly preposterous reason to remove and transport a head just to hide a bullet identitification, unless that bullet has ENORMOUS implications. imo.

 

[dotr]

I've been watching more than my fair share of crime/forensics shows lately, and it has caused me to keep thinking about this case. I tried to search for answers via the net, but found it difficult.. I don't *think* that police issued bullets are marked in some way to distinguish them from any other bullets (but perhaps they should be!?), but that thought occurred to me, ie if any bullet had been retrieved from the head of RD, would it be known if it was a police bullet. Assuming not, since I was unable to find any info confirming such a thing...

Then one has to wonder why the killer would be so fearful of said bullet being able to be linked to a gun - considering the killer obviously still had/has the gun in his possession at the time.

So taking that further, if the alleged gun had been used in a different murder and the killer was never caught, police would possibly be able to determine two crimes were performed by same gun/person, but if still unknown, then why such a big deal as to take the time/effort/mess/risk to remove a head?

Which led me to wonder ...... if a murder occurred somewhere and the offending bullet was retrieved AND a criminal was convicted and currently incarcerated without the actual gun ever having been located, and that bullet could be linked with said bullet in RD's head, it might cause too much grief for the already-incarcerated criminal.. or perhaps even lead to question if the correct crim was the one serving time.. or if he had an accomplice LE hadn't yet known about, etc.

Just seems an incredibly preposterous reason to remove and transport a head just to hide a bullet identitification, unless that bullet has ENORMOUS implications. imo.

The perp/s seemed to go to a fair bit of trouble with the wife's body as well, thinking that if they were so concerned about the bullet, they could have just killed RD the same way.
Thinking that they wanted RD's head for reasons other than to retrieve a bullet.
Curious now to know if RD was known to be a big game hunter?
imo, speculation.

 

[deugirtni]

The perp/s seemed to go to a fair bit of trouble with the wife's body as well, thinking that if they were so concerned about the bullet, they could have just killed RD the same way.
Thinking that they wanted RD's head for reasons other than to retrieve a bullet.
Curious now to know if RD was known to be a big game hunter?
imo, speculation.

I wonder if they went there to kill RD, and SD happened to become collateral damage. It is definitely odd that the two weren't killed the same way.

 

[dotr]

Report: Elderly Ga. couple likely knew killers, sheriff says
20014 rbbm.
''Sheriff Sills told the paper Tuesday that both he and FBI profilers who have examined the case believe at least two people were involved in the crime - which is believed to have taken place May 2 or May 3.

Sills said some video footage captured around that time in the area of the couple's home has been sent to the FBI for examination, according to the paper.

The sheriff reportedly went on to say that no one has been ruled out as a suspect, other than some yard workers who have been interviewed and, in some cases, polygraphed.

"This is not the work of some drug-crazed individuals, and this is not some professional assassin," Sills reportedly said.''
ETA Posted this before learning that there was an arrest in the NY case..
Ws thread..
NY - Lois Colley, 83, beaten to death, North Salem, 9 Nov 2015 *Arrest*

Ga. double murder probe turns to N.Y. for clues
2015 rbbm.
''EATONTON, Ga. — Investigators in Georgia and New York are collaborating to see whether two unsolved murder cases involving the elderly are related.''

''Lois Colley, 83, was found dead in her home in North Salem, N.Y., on Nov. 9. She was the wife of millionaire McDonald's franchise owner Eugene Colley.''

''The ties between the Georgia and New York cases are circumstantial.

• Both cases have wealthy, elderly victims, found brutally murdered inside their homes
• Both cases have no apparent motive
• Both homes had no sign of forced entry
• Both victims lived in exclusive communities
• Both victims owned fast food franchises
• Both murders are unsolved.''

 

[Canaille]

Report: Elderly Ga. couple likely knew killers, sheriff says
20014 rbbm.
''Sheriff Sills told the paper Tuesday that both he and FBI profilers who have examined the case believe at least two people were involved in the crime - which is believed to have taken place May 2 or May 3.

Sills said some video footage captured around that time in the area of the couple's home has been sent to the FBI for examination, according to the paper.

The sheriff reportedly went on to say that no one has been ruled out as a suspect, other than some yard workers who have been interviewed and, in some cases, polygraphed.

"This is not the work of some drug-crazed individuals, and this is not some professional assassin," Sills reportedly said.''
ETA Posted this before learning that there was an arrest in the NY case..
Ws thread..
NY - Lois Colley, 83, beaten to death, North Salem, 9 Nov 2015 *Arrest*

Ga. double murder probe turns to N.Y. for clues
2015 rbbm.
''EATONTON, Ga. — Investigators in Georgia and New York are collaborating to see whether two unsolved murder cases involving the elderly are related.''

''Lois Colley, 83, was found dead in her home in North Salem, N.Y., on Nov. 9. She was the wife of millionaire McDonald's franchise owner Eugene Colley.''

''The ties between the Georgia and New York cases are circumstantial.

• Both cases have wealthy, elderly victims, found brutally murdered inside their homes
• Both cases have no apparent motive
• Both homes had no sign of forced entry
• Both victims lived in exclusive communities
• Both victims owned fast food franchises
• Both murders are unsolved.''

Interesting that both victims owned fast food franchises. I wonder if the franchises are linked in any way.

I sometimes tend to look at things and wonder if there was a message being sent. With Mr. Dermond, it makes me wonder if the head being taken was to say that the head of something has been removed.... for example, the head of a corporation.