Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #55

[madoodi]

The book says "in the new year of 2016"

It is so upsetting that interviews took place so late unless he was also interviewed by the former detective soon after the disappearance.

 

[SLouTh]

I am not very familiar with coronial inquests but if you are a POI and called to give testimony- do you need legal representation? As in "if you do not have one, one will be appointed to you ". Or is this by choice and without representation you are not allowed to question any witnesses?

It's advisable to have legal representation, but not mandatory......
Only your legal representative - usually a Barrister, is allowed to ask questions of witnesses, apart from Council Assisting the Coroner.
Definitely not "appointed" .... you can apply for legal aide.
This is for inquests in general not just this specific case....

 

[Warshawski]

There was a lot of talk about the creepy house at #35 back in the threads. I was just taking a look back there, but it looks like we lost the interior photos when the forum changed to the newer format.
And I can't find them on the real estate sites now, because the house has since gone up for sale again and the photos are all nice 'normal' newer ones now.

We always wondered why there was a stuffed toy sitting up on the back of the couch at #35 when a lone man lived there.

The TV was pointed away from the couch, as if someone sat on the floor to watch the TV, out of view below the window line.

And the house went up for sale suddenly, I think in Feb 2015:
35 Benaroon Drive - REDUCED FOR IMMEDIATE SALE
"We have obtained all information from sources we believe to be reliable; however, we cannot guarantee its accuracy. Prospective purchasers are advised to carry out their own investigations."

You can read some of the chat about it here:
Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - #24

Thanks for the reminder SA.

I wonder will he be called b4 the inquest. Actually thinking - how properties in Benaroon drive, how many identified.

I know #35 not ( all I’ve seen says ‘cannot be identified) but also I recall was a father & so who moved away early on - perhaps that info was courtesy of PS ?

all just labeled as IMO as I’m trying to fathom things

 

[madoodi]

It's advisable to have legal representation, but not mandatory......
Only your legal representative - usually a Barrister, is allowed to ask questions of witnesses, apart from Council Assisting the Coroner.
Definitely not "appointed" .... you can apply for legal aide.

Thanks for clarifying Slouth

 

[Warshawski]

Well, there are only a certain amount of reasons why a person can't be named - to protect children, due to sub judice, to protect informers, perhaps other reasons that I am not aware of.

FGM said his first name is Peter. I bet journos know exactly who he is, with their kind of resources.


'I was asked this question initially by Wendy Hudson (a police woman who lives in Kendall) and I suggested Peter across the road, (as he keeps odd hours and lives alone),' the inquest document said.
William Tyrrell's foster grandmother's police statement to inquest revealed | Daily Mail Online

That name ‘Peter’ as FGM knew him as, may not even be his real name, IMO

 

[SouthAussie]

It's advisable to have legal representation, but not mandatory......
Only your legal representative - usually a Barrister, is allowed to ask questions of witnesses, apart from Council Assisting the Coroner.
Definitely not "appointed" .... you can apply for legal aide.

Except, I think, if you are representing yourself. Abbott was asking questions.

 

[JLZ]

I am not very familiar with coronial inquests but if you are a POI and called to give testimony- do you need legal representation? As in "if you do not have one, one will be appointed to you ". Or is this by choice and without representation you are not allowed to question any witnesses?

You can only question witnesses, which would normally be through your legal representative, if you've been given leave to appear as an interested party. Whether leave is given and who are the representatives gets sorted out beforehand at directions hearings. Here the interested parties are the parents, some suspects, and I think the government department, FaCS or whatever they're called. You can be a POI called to give evidence and not apply for leave to appear at all, so no lawyer to ask questions and none directly from yourself.

It's my understanding that all those with leave to appear would have access to the brief (though perhaps not in entirety) as it would be obtained by their solicitors, which is the same thing.

 

[madoodi]

Aahhh ...thanks SLouTH .... I’ve been puzzling over where I previously heard that reference to ‘fat, hairy, gorilla of a man’.. now I remember it was when Jubes referenced the surveillance cameras

and who knows what may’ve been seen if PS hadn’t pilfered one!

So if the surveillance was placed there for #35 and still there in 2016 long after the unidentified man had sold and moved on...who were they watching?

IMO

 

[Warshawski]

So if the surveillance was placed there for #35 and still there in 2016 long after the unidentified man had sold and moved on...who were they watching?

IMO

Perhaps they forgot they were there

 

[SouthAussie]

So if the surveillance was placed there for #35 and still there in 2016 long after the unidentified man had sold and moved on...who were they watching?

IMO

Perhaps, as Blues Clues suggested earlier, to see if someone returned there ... and what they did if they returned.


"According to the researchers at the Behavioral Science Unit (BSU) of the FBI, the disorganized asocial offender will tend to exhibit certain behavior patterns after he has committed a crime. First, he will need to return to the scene of the crime relatively soon afterward, to envision and relive what has taken place"

"For the organized nonsocial offender, the crime becomes, at least partially, a game. Such an offender will often return to the scene of the crime for the purpose of reliving the sensations he felt there"

https://us.sagepub.com/sites/defaul...24001_5___The_Analysis_of_the_Crime_Scene.pdf

 

[MissMarpleAU]

Deleted already answered

 

[Blues Clues]

So if the surveillance was placed there for #35 and still there in 2016 long after the unidentified man had sold and moved on...who were they watching?

IMO

I can't recall reading when it was placed there, only when PS found it. I might of missed it but I think the camera would have been placed there long before 2o16.

Perhaps as well as watching for someone to return to the scene, it might also have been watching to see who visited the resident of #35 and what car they drove.

 

[JLZ]

I can't recall reading when it was placed there, only when PS found it. I might of missed it but I think the camera would have been placed there long before 2o16.

Perhaps as well as watching for someone to return to the scene, it might also have been watching to see who visited the resident of #35 and what car they drove.

Yes, I don't believe it was ever reported when the camera was placed, only when it was found and handed in. And although still functional when PS discovered it, it wasn't exactly 'watching' for anything then, since police didn't know PS had it after six weeks. If it was being monitored at all there was obviously a huge time lag, and it looks like it had been altogether forgotten.

 

[SouthAussie]

Wasn't there a report sometime later that said that the police-planted cameras batteries sometimes went flat?
That they were 'plagued' with problems with the cameras?

The camera that Savage found was evidently not plagued with those problems. We saw good shots of his eye and other things as he peered at the camera.

 

[JLZ]

Wasn't there a report sometime later that said that the police-planted cameras batteries sometimes went flat?
That they were 'plagued' with problems with the cameras?

I remember it reported that they were weeks or months behind listening to the audio. And about technical problems with the listening devices. I wouldn't be surprised if the same applied to cameras. Perhaps mentioned in the same context?

Do you think if the camera battery was basically flat--and only photographed PS because it sort of woke up due to movement, like my watch does a little bit when the battery is nearly dead--that that would explain police not knowing it had been taken out of position?

 

[Blues Clues]

Wasn't there a report sometime later that said that the police-planted cameras batteries sometimes went flat?
That they were 'plagued' with problems with the cameras?

Yes that's right there was SA. It was part of GJ's supporting evidence as to why he needed to have a back up recording.

 

[SouthAussie]

I remember it reported that they were weeks or months behind listening to the audio. And about technical problems with the listening devices. I wouldn't be surprised if the same applied to cameras. Perhaps mentioned in the same context?

Do you think if the camera battery was basically flat--and only photographed PS because it sort of woke up due to movement, like my watch does a little bit when the battery is nearly dead--that that would explain police not knowing it had been taken out of position?

I am not sure what type of cameras they used. Were they 'live' CCTV or were they recording on an internal device and needed picking up every now and again to swap over recording chips?

With the lousy mobile/internet transmission in that area, I would have thought they were recording onto a chip inside the cameras.

 

[Tinker Taylor]

Not sure about the camera, but I suspect it was a farm camera. They detect movement and basically take a still picture either day or night and can last quite a long while. The pictures are saved to an SD card. Some have a little solar panel to recharge the battery. We had one about this time, to see who came and went when we weren't home, but unless the subject was in the frame for a while or was slow moving, it was pretty useless. We got a lot of photos of the back bumper bar of cars or of just nothing. A few night time shots of kangaroos. But I think if it was trained on a walking track for example, it would be more likely to get a reasonable picture of a person.

 

[JLZ]

I am not sure what type of cameras they used. Were they 'live' CCTV or were they recording on an internal device and needed picking up every now and again to swap over recording chips?

With the lousy mobile/internet transmission in that area, I would have thought they were recording onto a chip inside the cameras.

All right, say the schedule was to visit the camera every two months to collect the data and they'd done so just before PS took it in. So in the normal course of things they would have noticed the camera was missing a week or two after he handed it over. Then someone to look over the images. That would be high priority surveillance for this investigation. And if you doubled the police budget you'd probably get more chiefs on higher pay and no better technology and no more staff on the ground.

 

[SLouTh]

There is a part in Jubes book, that seems to contradict what we have thought William's last movements were .........

Quote:

"William was last seen running from the front of FGM house towards the back of the property"

Ref: I Catch Killers, Jubelin and Box, Chapter There's No Death That's A Good Death, Pg 8