Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #126

[St. Anthony2017]

Agree 100%.

The "Guys" part of the audio to me is a dead giveaway. It's not southern at all, more Northern Cities Vowel Shift/Inland North American. It sounds like "Guise", same way I would say it, and it sounds like a question, like he's getting their attention. "Guise?", (then some time later), "down the hill" (phone probably in a pocket by that point, voice muffled and garbled).

MOO is he lives somewhere in north central Indiana, but possibly further afield, maybe much further out. I still maintain he was home by supper, so in my mind he lives within a 2.3 hour drive of Delphi.

JMO

Or he did.

 

[St. Anthony2017]

Agree 100%.

The "Guys" part of the audio to me is a dead giveaway. It's not southern at all, more Northern Cities Vowel Shift/Inland North American. It sounds like "Guise", same way I would say it, and it sounds like a question, like he's getting their attention. "Guise?", (then some time later), "down the hill" (phone probably in a pocket by that point, voice muffled and garbled).

MOO is he lives somewhere in north central Indiana, but possibly further afield, maybe much further out. I still maintain he was home by supper, so in my mind he lives within a 2.3 hour drive of Delphi.

JMO

Or he did.

 

[JnRyan]

Agree 100%.

The "Guys" part of the audio to me is a dead giveaway. It's not southern at all, more Northern Cities Vowel Shift/Inland North American. It sounds like "Guise", same way I would say it, and it sounds like a question, like he's getting their attention. "Guise?", (then some time later), "down the hill" (phone probably in a pocket by that point, voice muffled and garbled).

MOO is he lives somewhere in north central Indiana, but possibly further afield, maybe much further out. I still maintain he was home by supper, so in my mind he lives within a 2.3 hour drive of Delphi.

JMO

I believe one of the profilers (FBI profiler Mary Ellen O'Toole?) stated in a podcast that this killer could have back at home eating take out with family just like any other day while at the time they were searching for Abigail and Liberty. I thought it was in the "Down the Hill" podcast, but I didn't see in the transcripts Cujenn81 wrote in the media thread. (I really appreciate those transcripts now!)

 

[JnRyan]

Or, he simply got in a car, and drove off, never being seen by anyone.

I'm always thinking this animal left via some form of vehicular transportation.

Yes, that is an uncomfortable thought. If that was the case, then the two sketches are of others in the area, but not the killer. In which case, Liberty's video would be all we really have for a description. And LE changed the sketch once, so maybe they are not so confident in the validity of the sketches.

 

[Rhiannon Gray]

When I look into this case, one of the things that I really try to do is to look for suggestions in what is being said by LE.

I submit this quote , from D. Carter:

"Watch the person’s mannerisms as he walks," Carter said while the video aired behind him. "Do you recognize the mannerisms as someone that you might know? Remember he’s walking on the former railroad bridge. Because of the deterioration of the bridge, the suspect is not walking naturally in between the ties."

My question to anyone that is willing to address what he says:
When he speaks about watching the mannerisms, what does that indicate to you?

Is it the hands in the pockets?
Is it his gait?
Is it his left foot?
Just curious as to others opinions.

My Opinions and my Observations.

 

[JnRyan]

Any sketch is only as good as the witness's memory. You could have a very credible witness with very poor recall of BG's physical attributes. It may also be that a witness saw BG from too far away to have a clear view of his facial features.

Add to that the fact that they didn't see this 'suspicious' person commit the crime or at the crime scene and it really may start to get really fuzzy.

 

[Rhiannon Gray]

In another statement that was made during the April 2019 Press Conference , D. Carter made these statements:

"We likely have interviewed you or someone close to you. We know that this is about power to you. And you want to know what we know. One day, you will. Only a coward would do such a thing."

THIS, in my opinion, may be the most loaded statement of the press conference.
1~Did he(they) interview the Killer previously?
Did he (they) do this in the early days of the investigation?

* I believe yes. They did. They have. I do not believe that it was someone "close" to the killer specifically..although they may have interviewed close family and friends as well. THIS seems like a way to say "We know that we not only have you on record, but also someone that YOU care about."*

2~What does "This is about power to you" suggest?

*This signifies a possible sexual assault OR an intent to sexually assault the victims.*

3~Stating that this killer is a coward signifies what? Do you think this was just a way to inflame this killer, hoping it would get a reaction? Was it just a personal dig? Or is this statement alluding to the fact that the killer is hiding behind what he does or who he knows? Or is it something else?

* I do not know for certain how I feel on this one, except to say..maybe all of these things? I can't shake the fact that D.Carter knew he was taunting this killer*

* My opinions and my Observations.*

 

[mom2chloe]

I honestly wonder if the witnesses who described OBG and YBG have been interviewed further and eliminated as suspects. IMO This is tragically frustrating.

 

[sunshineray]

My question would be why would anyone who genuinely believed they sighted the killer blab to others including reporters or on SM, particularly before an arrest has been made?

The public is very trusting if we believe everything we hear about any case without any validation coming directly from LE. Just for the fact LE switched directions from one sketch to another suggests to me there is not one irrefutable witness. I suppose we can jump to the conclusion both sketches were involved but LE never said that either. JMO

In answer to your first paragraph...because it's human nature to spread the news. It's always been like that and even more so now with so many SM platforms.

What some would call blabbing others would call informing. I'm not saying I personally agree with it, just stating what I believe is the reality of it.

 

[sunshineray]

When I look into this case, one of the things that I really try to do is to look for suggestions in what is being said by LE.

I submit this quote , from D. Carter:

"Watch the person’s mannerisms as he walks," Carter said while the video aired behind him. "Do you recognize the mannerisms as someone that you might know? Remember he’s walking on the former railroad bridge. Because of the deterioration of the bridge, the suspect is not walking naturally in between the ties."

My question to anyone that is willing to address what he says:
When he speaks about watching the mannerisms, what does that indicate to you?

Is it the hands in the pockets?
Is it his gait?
Is it his left foot?
Just curious as to others opinions.

My Opinions and my Observations.

I'd say walking with hands in the pockets (that could be explained away if he's holding a weapon).
I maybe see a slight hitch in his step, stepping from left foot to right foot.
I also think he's talking or mumbling to himself.

 

[absentia]

I'm not sure if this is considered sleuthing, but at the beginning of the case when they showed the video of BG walking, I noticed the right foot/leg being inwardly rotated and it appeared he was pivoting towards his left by crossing his right foot toward the middle of the bridge. BUT, if this person had an inwardly rotated right femur and/or ankle, it could cause this appearance in the video. I recently viewed images of a male who matches the second sketch walking in the Delphi area (on a bridge in Delphi, no less), and the inward rotation of the right leg/foot was identical to what is seen on the video of BG walking on MHB. The slope of the shoulders and one hand in a pocket was also identical.

 

[absentia]

weird - I posted about a similar aspect of the case at the same time! funny coincidence...

When I look into this case, one of the things that I really try to do is to look for suggestions in what is being said by LE.

I submit this quote , from D. Carter:

"Watch the person’s mannerisms as he walks," Carter said while the video aired behind him. "Do you recognize the mannerisms as someone that you might know? Remember he’s walking on the former railroad bridge. Because of the deterioration of the bridge, the suspect is not walking naturally in between the ties."

My question to anyone that is willing to address what he says:
When he speaks about watching the mannerisms, what does that indicate to you?

Is it the hands in the pockets?
Is it his gait?
Is it his left foot?
Just curious as to others opinions.

My Opinions and my Observations.

 

[sunshineray]

In another statement that was made during the April 2019 Press Conference , D. Carter made these statements:

"We likely have interviewed you or someone close to you. We know that this is about power to you. And you want to know what we know. One day, you will. Only a coward would do such a thing."

THIS, in my opinion, may be the most loaded statement of the press conference.
1~Did he(they) interview the Killer previously?
Did he (they) do this in the early days of the investigation?

* I believe yes. They did. They have. I do not believe that it was someone "close" to the killer specifically..although they may have interviewed close family and friends as well. THIS seems like a way to say "We know that we not only have you on record, but also someone that YOU care about."*

2~What does "This is about power to you" suggest?

*This signifies a possible sexual assault OR an intent to sexually assault the victims.*

3~Stating that this killer is a coward signifies what? Do you think this was just a way to inflame this killer, hoping it would get a reaction? Was it just a personal dig? Or is this statement alluding to the fact that the killer is hiding behind what he does or who he knows? Or is it something else?

* I do not know for certain how I feel on this one, except to say..maybe all of these things? I can't shake the fact that D.Carter knew he was taunting this killer*

* My opinions and my Observations.*

1. I think they interviewed and possibly even took into confidence this person.
2. I think what ever was said after "Guys" and before and after "Down the hill" made it clear to the girls who was in charge. For however long that audio of the abductions is, it's long enough and clear enough for LE to determine this killer craves power over others.
3.No matter the boldness of committing theses abductions and murders in broad daylight this killer is a coward who needs to kill children to feel important. Truly...cowardly and dastardly, IMO.

 

[absentia]

I still think there is a property issue that could be part of the murders. Not even that the girls knew about possible corruption or sketchy property transfers, but that a murder on that land would render it useful for certain purposes.

1. I think they interviewed and possibly even took into confidence this person.
2. I think what ever was said after "Guys" and before and after "Down the hill" made it clear to the girls who was in charge. For however long that audio of the abductions is, it's long enough and clear enough for LE to determine this killer craves power over others.
3.No matter the boldness of committing theses abductions and murders in broad daylight this killer is a coward who needs to kill children to feel important. Truly...cowardly and dastardly, IMO.

 

[Falling Down]

I believe one of the profilers (FBI profiler Mary Ellen O'Toole?) stated in a podcast that this killer could have back at home eating take out with family just like any other day while at the time they were searching for Abigail and Liberty. I thought it was in the "Down the Hill" podcast, but I didn't see in the transcripts Cujenn81 wrote in the media thread. (I really appreciate those transcripts now!)

I've had similar thoughts since some time in 2017.

The killer was home by dark.

 

[retrometro]

Deleted by me

 

[JnRyan]

I've had similar thoughts since some time in 2017.

The killer was home by dark.

I didn't reach that conclusion in 2017. It took me a while, but now I believe it is so. He has followed this case from outside the county and possibly even here as a guest since then.

 

[MistyWaters]

In answer to your first paragraph...because it's human nature to spread the news. It's always been like that and even more so now with so many SM platforms.

What some would call blabbing others would call informing. I'm not saying I personally agree with it, just stating what I believe is the reality of it.

It might be human nature to spread the news but I’m 100% certain we all know not to believe everything we read on FB.

And considering there’s been no arrest, nobody who sighted anyone in the area that day can be 100% certain who they saw was involved in committing the murders. Furthermore possible or hopeful witnesses blabbing can be extremely counterproductive to LE asking for tips — if for example somebody who might offer a valuable tip reads a supposed witness experience and discounts their information because it doesn’t correlate to what or who the witness claims to have seen. JMO

 

[St. Anthony2017]

weird - I posted about a similar aspect of the case at the same time! funny coincidence...

Great minds think alike!

 

[Awsi Dooger]

Correct.

It was blocked off by a barrier which had been put up in the months after the murders, I saw it when I drove by.

Prior to that, a barrier some distance in from the road could be closed. The newer barrier prevents anyone from driving off the road a bit to park.

Here is a photo of the drop off spot from November 2019. The red barrier now prevents vehicular traffic entering the trail. But that barrier not there in February 2017. The aluminum gate was there, and open apparently dawn to dusk. Smack behind where this picture was taken is the Mears property and a small parking area near a red-roofed barn. I've heard that parking area is now closed.

imgur.com

I'll include the reverse view also, from the trailhead. From red gate to trailhead is roughly 240 feet and slightly uphill.

imgur.com