Madeleine McCann 3 year old missing in Portugal - Part 11

[Juliana]

I read somewhere that the Mc's and Madeleine met with Russell O'Brien at a restaurant earlier in the evening, before going to the Tapas Bar. Has this been confirmed?

If so, I wonder if there is CCTV proving that the Mc's left the restaurant with Madeleine after parting ways with Russell? Obviously this question is only relevant if the early evening meeting with Mc's, Madeleine and Russell has been confirmed. Thanks.

 

[CaliKid]

Could the body possibly have been hidden inside a suitcase? Most likely, the searchers who were looking in the apartment on the night of May 3rd, would not have even thought to have opened up the suitcases and look. It would then make it fairly simple to walk out with a day or so latter. Horrible thought.:sick:

Good question Reannan! I think it would depend on how insistent the McCanns were that she'd been kidnapped. It's putting a lot of hope into convincing LE that she isn't simply missing or walked off. If I were a parent or friend of a parent and had killed this child, I wouldn't take the risk.

 

[colomom]

For anyone that can read Power Point presentations on their 'puter:

http://www.le.ac.uk/sm/LWMS/resources/pharmacology/lectures/Opiate Pharmacology 2003.ppt

It is very clinical....

 

[Rino]

For anyone that can read Power Point presentations on their 'puter:

http://www.le.ac.uk/sm/LWMS/resources/pharmacology/lectures/Opiate Pharmacology 2003.ppt

It is very clinical....

I can't

 

[Morag]

Rachael Oldfield is defending O'Brien, and has said he was only away from the table for a few minutes.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=476800&in_page_id=1770

Today Rachael Oldfield, who was also with the McCanns at the holiday complex, said: "It is just ludicrous. He is a lovely bloke. It is a total smear."
...But Mrs Oldfield insisted today he was only away for minutes at a time checking on his children.

 

[CaliKid]

That's the problem. They all defend each other and make excuses; hence, the Pact of Silence.

 

[SewingDeb]

Everything we heard about the McCanns early on said they didn't rent a car for their vacation, but this turned out to be untrue. However, they didn't keep the same car during their entire stay in PDL. They turned in the original and rented out at least one other vehicle, all of which were searched. If the car they rented after Madeleine went missing was hit on by the scent dog, it means the McCanns know where her body is and moved it with the car.

Who rented the car the week Medeleine went missing? Who was renting the car right before and right after she went missing? I think they should look into that possibility as well.

 

[Texana]

Here's one of several articles that mentions O'Brien specifically saying he saw Murat at the resort that night:

http://www.anorak.co.uk/news/madeleine-mccann/175151.html

 

[cinsbythesea]

You all have provided so much info - thank you! I'm not as up on this case as a lot of you but have been reading here as much as I can. What troubles me is that it's known the more people involved in a crime the more likely someone is going to "spill. If there was some sort of accident with Madeline and the parents - I don't understand why they wouldn't just come forward. And if they didn't come forward for whatever reason - why take the chance of involving others who could certainly point fingers later on? What really bothers me that if the parents are involved - that they've carried on the way they have - no hint of remorse, apprehension of being caught, nothing. Could they possibly be that cold and callous? Perhaps one is protecting the other ala John and Patsy Ramsey? For the sake of the two little ones they have left- I sure hope they aren't involved in this.

 

[Rhett]

I think they might all be smucking swingers! Something. There has to be a reason why they cover for each other. Someone or several has something on one or several of the others. I hope I made sense. Maybe they gave her to someone or some group to get themselves and their other children out of something. It is either some variation of what I propose and what has been proposed here regarding sedation of the children or the police are putting out a lot of smoke. IMHOO

 

[colomom]

You all have provided so much info - thank you! I'm not as up on this case as a lot of you but have been reading here as much as I can. What troubles me is that it's known the more people involved in a crime the more likely someone is going to "spill. If there was some sort of accident with Madeline and the parents - I don't understand why they wouldn't just come forward. And if they didn't come forward for whatever reason - why take the chance of involving others who could certainly point fingers later on? What really bothers me that if the parents are involved - that they've carried on the way they have - no hint of remorse, apprehension of being caught, nothing. Could they possibly be that cold and callous? Perhaps one is protecting the other ala John and Patsy Ramsey? For the sake of the two little ones they have left- I sure hope they aren't involved in this.

Good post Cinsbythesea,

I agree about involving others greatly increases the chance of somebody making a mistake. What if (big IF here) the PJ has leaked this "new information" appearing to implicate Russell O'Brien, just to increase the pressure on the actual person responsible. If the parents are involved could they actually stand by and watch him take a fall? If one is protecting the other perhaps one would confess? Can you imagine the arguments that might be going on behind closed doors?

Course, you all know what I am hinting at...

So, along those lines, ever hear about how a horrible secret can eat you up inside??

OFF TOPIC:

I lived in San Mateo/Foster City for many years, I really miss the Bay Area...sometimes

 

[CarpeDiem]

Yikes, Kate looks TERRIBLE in that photo.


Hot off the presses, McCann's told NOT to leave Portugal:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/08/21/nmaddy221.xml

 

[less0305]

I think they might all be smucking swingers! Something. There has to be a reason why they cover for each other. Someone or several has something on one or several of the others. I hope I made sense. Maybe they gave her to someone or some group to get themselves and their other children out of something. It is either some variation of what I propose and what has been proposed here regarding sedation of the children or the police are putting out a lot of smoke. IMHOO

Funny, I had the exact same suspicion about the swinging lifestyle when I first started reading about this group of friends vacationing, etc. together. Something about their arrangements and whatnot made me think they may possibly be swingers and they're trying to protect their public image from their private image.

 

[Rino]

Mr Sousa said that detectives have a “positive feeling” about the inquiry and that the picture of what happened to the four-year-old on the night she disappeared is becoming clearer.


OMG I hope so

 

[BethInAK]

Good post Cinsbythesea,


So, along those lines, ever hear about how a horrible secret can eat you up inside??

I'd assume that having a missing child can eat you up inside too though.

 

[colomom]

(copied from the Proboards79 forum)

It's an interview with Olegario de Sousa with RTP on August 15.

Entirely in Portuguese but....

____________________________________
To access

For RealPlayer:

http://multimedia.rtp.pt/

(click the VIDEO button)

Note the date...

The interviews with de Sousa are on 8/15 (select from the drop down date menu and click "go") and the program is:

Jornal da Tarde (1ª Parte)

click the green arrow under the VIDEO REAL column.

______________________________________

For those who can access a .wmv file... mms://195.245.176.20/rtpfiles/videos/auto/jornaltarde/jtarde_1_15082007.wmv

_______________________________________

Fast forward until 15 mins 37 secs into the video.

A transcript & translation of some relevant answers, concerning the dogs and the cadaver issue:

"The dogs reacted at the locations where they were doing their work."

"The results of the collection of residues were sent to be analyzed. The dogs - their work was done in several locations. I will not specify (...) where or how [their reaction] happened."

"We will now see what the lab can tell us about what they eventually analyzed."

(on whether a cadaver does not have to remain at a given location for a long time in order to make the dog react)

"According to the information that I collected, that is the situation. Right after a human being stops living, as its vital functions cease, odors are set free, the body immediately enters the decomposition process, due to the various enzymes and other substances that are contained in the organism. In most cases, it takes hours or days for the body to release odor, for example, for a human being to detect. In the case of that dog, he doesn't need that amount of time, he can detect the smell in the first moments."

If you see the clip, you'll notice some talk about Russell O'Brien close to the end of the interview. Olegario de Sousa is totally non-comittal concerning this subject.

_____________________________________

This was very interesting because most things written indicate a minimum of 2 hours for detection and this indicates a completely different time frame. Of course, we do not know enough detail of the dog's searches but, It could mean a different "window of opportunity" or a different "possible time of death".

~just to keep you all completely confused ~

 

[colomom]

I'd assume that having a missing child can eat you up inside too though.

That is true however, my post was concerning a completely different scenario.

 

[CarpeDiem]

Funny, I had the exact same suspicion about the swinging lifestyle when I first started reading about this group of friends vacationing, etc. together. Something about their arrangements and whatnot made me think they may possibly be swingers and they're trying to protect their public image from their private image.

Well, if that's what is going on, they need to get over themselves, because the lying and diversion doesn't help Madeleine. If that's the case, they aren't the first to have that happen and have their lifestyle/secrets exposed. The Van Dam's had to face that fire. Even the Walsh's when Adam was missing and Reve had to admit an affair with a close friend that was staying with them. But THEY layed every aspect of their lives open to investigators to clear themselves so the real perp and answers to the circumstances of their children's disappearance could be sought. They didn't hide behind a "pact of silence" or friends that seem more important to them than their own child!

 

[colomom]

Well, if that's what is going on, they need to get over themselves, because the lying and diversion doesn't help Madeleine. If that's the case, they aren't the first to have that happen and have their lifestyle/secrets exposed. The Van Dam's had to face that fire. Even the Walsh's when Adam was missing and Reve had to admit an affair with a close friend that was staying with them. But THEY layed every aspect of their lives open to investigators to clear themselves so the real perp and answers to the circumstances of their children's disappearance could be sought. They didn't hide behind a "pact of silence" or friends that seem more important to them than their own child!

Absolutely Carpe!!

That has bugged me from the get go when I sent the McCanns an email begging them to just tell the truth.

Also, the post about the PJ suggesting that this might not be the best time to think about leaving Portugal...why would they insist (or suggest) they stay? The rest of the Tapas9 were allowed to leave and it has been reported that they could be called back at any time. Why not allow the McCanns the same freedom with the same set of stipulations?

:waitasec:

 

[Reannan]

The powerpoint from ROB appears to be a lecture or presentation he had put together for a medical school or some similar audience on the use and misuse of opiates. What if this happened? The McCann's were concerned about the previous complaints from neighbors to management about the kids crying. ROB offered to give Madeleine something to help her sleep, so the McCann's and ROB went to dinner before the main meal at the Tapas bar, and ROB provided medication for Madeleine into the food. The only thing that doesn't fit here, is WHEN did the McCann's know that Madeleine had died under this scenario? I can't see the McCann's going to dinner as if nothing had happened while ROB hid the body! I can see them going to dinner, and ROB returning to check on Madeleine, and finding her dead. Perhaps Kate and Gerry really didn't know Madeleine had died until latter; at which point, it would have been awkward to tell the truth. This would also explain the vomiting of ROB's child.....maybe she also received a dose that was too strong, and was vomiting, but was given an opiate antagonist to counteract the drug. Under this scenario, it would create a fairly tight bond for the McCann's and Russell O'Brien to cover for each other. Even though I can see it happening, it still seems far fetched - agreed? All of this of course, is my sad, fact-deprived mind grasping at straws.