OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #58

[Tiff23fr]

If Billy is truly foolish enough to stick with wanting to represent himself Pro Se, he is the one to decide that, not the Judge.

Our Sixth Amendment affords us that right. IIRC, only verified incompetency can override your decision. IANAL so researching it could be a huge benefit.

I don't disagree he has that right, but would he need to first let go of his current counsel to proceed Pro Se? I tried to find a clear answer for OHIO (IANAL as well), but could only find citing to other cases where Pro Se motions were denied WHILE currently being represented by legal counsel. Basically they said you get one or the other but not both at the same time.

I don't know the answer but look forward to learning more about it as this goes forward.

 

[Cool Cats]

I have a Keychain full of rewards cards, discounts cards, but none are swiped as a credit card.
Two totally different things. Call Bass Pro. They will explain. Scheiderer said a rewards card, not a credit card. JMO from having a rewards card, myself, but I do not have a Bass Pro credit card. A rewards card and a credit card are totally different. One is used for reward points, one is used to charge purchases (a form of payment.) The other places the Wagners used rewards cards were at auto parts places, etc. Like Auto Zone, Advanced Auto Parts, Peebles, etc., simply rewards points, but they could have had credit cards, too if these businesses offered them. Still have to be presented separately IMO.

Looking at my notes just now I saw this:

Records indicate a night scope was purchased for an AR rifle from Bass Pro Shop using Jake's Rewards Card.

So you are correct, the Rewards Card is the Bass Pro Shop Rewards Card and I'm sure Scheiderer said multiple purchases were made with Jake's Rewards Card and so other murder kit purchases were made from Bass Pro Shop.

Notes:

Various purchases were made with some being online purchases and some being done directly with cash.

BCI pieced together financial records and saw the first "murder kit" purchase was on 2-26-16.

An Invoice from Tactical Innovations Inc. billed to Jake Wagner 260 Peterson Rd. 1 quantity Colt numerex 1911 thread adapter thread protectors.

Evidence shows they were purchasing many parts to make suppressors and the
drill bit size diameters compared to the caliber of the guns shows the suppressor items being bought were for 22 and 40 caliber guns.

Maglite flashlights generic versions were purchased.

At a local auto parts store cash was used to buy 10 freeze plugs that suppress sound, SKS Magazine, SKS ammo for a 30 caliber gun, masks, bug detector, brass catcher, AKS Mag big nuts, other nuts.

GW4 met someone in person (from Facebook) on the side of the Hwy and purchased a 40 caliber Glock. This is according to his uncle CN who accompanied him.

Scheiderer:
We know the three calibers of firearms that were used to commit these murders. A 22 caliber long rifle, a 40 caliber, and a 30 caliber.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

I don't disagree he has that right, but would he need to first let go of his current counsel to proceed Pro Se? I tried to find a clear answer for OHIO (IANAL as well), but could only find citing to other cases where Pro Se motions were denied WHILE currently being represented by legal counsel. Basically they said you get one or the other but not both at the same time.

I don't know the answer but look forward to learning more about it as this goes forward.

I found this:

"Additionally, some judges may allow or require a pro se defendant to work with a “standby attorney”. This provides a pro se defendant with a lawyer who is there to help if they need one to step in during a proceeding to help with procedure or arguments."

Advantages and Disadvantages of Pro Se Criminal Representation | LegalMatch


I read in some article that if a defendant represents "pro se" they are held to the same standard in the court as an attorney would be as far as timely motions, etc.

Oh crap, that 7th grade education of his will surely give him the upper hand against the Prosecution team **(insert huge dose of snark)**, however he (Billy) might give RJ a run for his money.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

DBM

 

[RAISINISBACK]

dbm

 

[Cool Cats]

Going to be very hard for Billy's defense to claim he couldn't be the mastermind because he just had a 7th grade education now. He wrote that paper better than an attorney could.

JMO

Yup! Don't forget in his Bond Motion it says he will be the Caretaker for FWF! Certainly there is a level of maturity, competence, experience, and intelligence required beyond the 7th grade level for this job?

I don't disagree he has that right, but would he need to first let go of his current counsel to proceed Pro Se? I tried to find a clear answer for OHIO (IANAL as well), but could only find citing to other cases where Pro Se motions were denied WHILE currently being represented by legal counsel. Basically they said you get one or the other but not both at the same time.

I don't know the answer but look forward to learning more about it as this goes forward.

So Billy wants to have his trial as soon as possible because he's sick of sitting in jail.
He wants to have a hearing to see if he can get back his Constitutional right to getting a speedy trial because he waived that right.

His attorneys are getting his Speedy Trial Motion thrown out and vacated so he can't have this hearing.

The question is why?

He didn't get his Bond Hearing and now won't get his Speedy Trial Hearing unless his attorneys refile it for him. Will they? That's the big question.

Humm.... Is Billy at war with his attorneys?

I think he is angry and I wonder if Fred has anything to do with it and is putting ideas in his head. You know, first wanting Bond then wanting a speedy trial.

Stay tuned.....2 Cents.....

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Since Canepa said that FW was searching about penalties for lying to the Grand Jury the night before she testified, I have no respect for Robin, until it is clear she didn't know. This whole family is intertwined to the nth degree and I just don't see how FW could have been researching such things without RW knowing it. And RW sure was calm the day Billy was arrested. If that had been me and my brother, both totally innocent of knowing what was going on, I would have been giving those officers Holy heck. Both Billy and RW were calm and collected. Just saying. MOO

Think about who benefits if Billy goes to prison for life and Fred dies. The other brother has his own business and apparently has nothing to do with FWF or the rest of the family. Billy's kids are going down with him so no one left. Maybe that is why RW was so calm and collected?

JMO

 

[Berrybell]

I thou

Billy Wagner files his own motion in prison handwriting, demands speedy trial (copy of note in link)

Billy Wagner files his own motion in prison handwriting, demands speedy trial

I thought it was said he barely had an education yet Billy is able to write a legal document?

 

[Berrybell]

I think Jake's trial will be first because most of the murder kit purchases were done with his Rewards Card, he has the most motive (as father) and had the relationship with Hanna, has an extra charge against him (Count 23), has a family gun list on his phone, has a photo on his phone showing him holding the same type of gun used in the murders - Walther Colt 1911.22.

He had the most access to Rhoden properties including keys from when he lived with them and would be the most familiar with the dogs, security cameras, how to enter the homes, the layouts of the homes - including Dana's for child visitation access - and would know the outside layouts of the properties including obscure placement of trail cams. I do not believe all 4 Wagners were equally knowledgeable about the 4 Rhoden properties.

Point is, I think they have the most evidence against him out of the 4 and that he is the one they have the best chance of securing a conviction against.

You would want to take your strongest case into court first and if you secure a guilty verdict it could also pressure the other defendants into considering pleas.

Billy can complain and write motions all he wants demanding a speedy trial but he will have to wait in line for his son to go first. Canepa was pretty clear.

... 2 Cents ...

I have to wonder why G4 participated in the murders. I think it goes beyond backing your brother or thinking they wouldn't get caught. G4 went to great lengths to get custody of his son, I think he felt backed into a corner and there is something behind the scene we don't know yet. It's MOO that HR was feed up with being harassed and threatened by the Wags, I think she was going to the police to file rape on little Jake and tell something on the Wags that would put all of them in prison.

 

[Ann99]

I found this:

"Additionally, some judges may allow or require a pro se defendant to work with a “standby attorney”. This provides a pro se defendant with a lawyer who is there to help if they need one to step in during a proceeding to help with procedure or arguments."

Advantages and Disadvantages of Pro Se Criminal Representation | LegalMatch


I read in some article that if a defendant represents "pro se" they are held to the same standard in the court as an attorney would be as far as timely motions, etc.

Oh crap, that 7th grade education of his will surely give him the upper hand against the Prosecution team **(insert huge dose of snark)**, however he (Billy) might give RJ a run for his money.

** Yes, G.W. "Billy" Wagner III will be a sight to see and hear.

I was remembering Billy Wagners performance at his extradition hearing in Kentucky. I found a video.
Here is a preview of the courtroom drama we will possibly see and 'hear' with George Washington "Billy" Wagner III self representation.

Billy Wagner, charged in Pike County mass slaying, waives extradition

"Wagner walked into Fayette County District Judge Julie Goodman's courtroom wearing shackles.
Goodman began the proceeding by asking Wagner if he wished to waive extradition.
Answering yes means Wagner will come back to Ohio to face justice.

"Yes," Wagner said, in response to Goodman's question.

"And what would you like to do at this time?" Goodman asked.

"Uh, I guess head back to Ohio," Wagner said.

That brief but significant interaction was followed by an exchange about Wagner's full legal name and his status in the Buckeye State.

"I will ask you at this time if you are willing to acknowledge the identity.

Your identity is that you are indeed George Washington Wagner III, who is wanted in Ohio?" Goodman asked.

"Uh, I'm George Washington Wagner III, and I guess I am," Wagner said."

End.

 

[Ann99]

Looking at my notes just now I saw this:

Records indicate a night scope was purchased for an AR rifle from Bass Pro Shop using Jake's Rewards Card.

So you are correct, the Rewards Card is the Bass Pro Shop Rewards Card and I'm sure Scheiderer said multiple purchases were made with Jake's Rewards Card and so other murder kit purchases were made from Bass Pro Shop.

Notes:

Various purchases were made with some being online purchases and some being done directly with cash.

BCI pieced together financial records and saw the first "murder kit" purchase was on 2-26-16.

An Invoice from Tactical Innovations Inc. billed to Jake Wagner 260 Peterson Rd. 1 quantity Colt numerex 1911 thread adapter thread protectors.

Evidence shows they were purchasing many parts to make suppressors and the
drill bit size diameters compared to the caliber of the guns shows the suppressor items being bought were for 22 and 40 caliber guns.

Maglite flashlights generic versions were purchased.

At a local auto parts store cash was used to buy 10 freeze plugs that suppress sound, SKS Magazine, SKS ammo for a 30 caliber gun, masks, bug detector, brass catcher, AKS Mag big nuts, other nuts.

GW4 met someone in person (from Facebook) on the side of the Hwy and purchased a 40 caliber Glock. This is according to his uncle CN who accompanied him.

Scheiderer:
We know the three calibers of firearms that were used to commit these murders. A 22 caliber long rifle, a 40 caliber, and a 30 caliber.

"GW4 met someone in person (from Facebook) on the side of the Hwy and purchased a 40 caliber Glock. This is according to his uncle CN who accompanied him."

So he did purchase a new Glock.

 

[Loomis124]

I have a Speedway credit card, it gives me speedy points, redeemable for things in the store. It can be used at other stores, and I receive points for these purchases. All on one card. Looks like Bass Pro Card works the same way. Both are MasterCard, and rewards card all in one.

Speedy Rewards Mastercard - Speedway

https://www.basspro.com/shop/en/points

Yes, these are true credit cards though. One easy way to remember is that a credit card is a form of payment. A reward card isn't. Just my opinion of the Rewards card I have.

 

[Ann99]

Credit Card vs Rewards Card vs Cash purchase ...


De Wine: "Mistakes were made"

Did Jake (or other W's ) purchase items and pay cash, (difficult to trace back to a specific person), but then, use a rewards card to associate his name or account with the purchase?

If so, mistakes were made, thank goodness.

 

[sunshineray]

Billy Wagner files his own motion in prison handwriting, demands speedy trial (copy of note in link)

Billy Wagner files his own motion in prison handwriting, demands speedy trial

Ok this is just BALONEY for want of a better substance. It's going to be rescinded, going to be vacated...before the court can rule on it. Oh your Honor, he did this without our knowledge...on a legal pad he had hanging around or our input...the barely educated GWIII has sure caught onto the lawyerly language and formatting pretty darn well. Is his jailhouse roomie an incarcerated lawyer just wanting to help?

IMO, this couldn't be more of a set up to claim incompetence, either the defendant's or the lawyer's. Look what he did all on his own your Honor, behind our backs but now it's out there in the media and potential jurors will think our client has no sense at all....OR your Honor, its obvious he doesn't want us as his death penalty case lawyers anymore, you need to appoint new ones and very quickly, it seems the defendant wants a speedy trial NOW. Hey sorry, not our fault, beyond our control. AJMO

Here's hoping Judge Deering has this investigated thoroughly.

 

[sunshineray]

Yes, but....

AW facilitated most of the purchases, with Jake and George carrying out their fare share, according to Agent Scheiderer's testimony.

By the way, I have a Bass Pro Rewards Card. It is NOT a credit card. It is a Rewards card like a Walgreens, Kroger, Big Lots, Kohls, Target, etc. card. You simply earn discounts when you rack up enough points and/or get current discounts at the time of your purchase. I highly doubt that George was using Jake's "credit card" for purchasing his scope. Just using a rewards card to rack up points. For example, my sister has purchases, but doesn't have a rewards card when we go through the checkout. I simply let her use mine. Gives me more points toward future purchases. In the Wagner's case, they could rack up discounts quickly using the same rewards card. Rewards card does not = credit card. JMO

It sure equals stupidity in the W's case, thank God.

 

[sunshineray]

Looking at my notes just now I saw this:

Records indicate a night scope was purchased for an AR rifle from Bass Pro Shop using Jake's Rewards Card.

So you are correct, the Rewards Card is the Bass Pro Shop Rewards Card and I'm sure Scheiderer said multiple purchases were made with Jake's Rewards Card and so other murder kit purchases were made from Bass Pro Shop.

Notes:

Various purchases were made with some being online purchases and some being done directly with cash.

BCI pieced together financial records and saw the first "murder kit" purchase was on 2-26-16.

An Invoice from Tactical Innovations Inc. billed to Jake Wagner 260 Peterson Rd. 1 quantity Colt numerex 1911 thread adapter thread protectors.

Evidence shows they were purchasing many parts to make suppressors and the
drill bit size diameters compared to the caliber of the guns shows the suppressor items being bought were for 22 and 40 caliber guns.

Maglite flashlights generic versions were purchased.

At a local auto parts store cash was used to buy 10 freeze plugs that suppress sound, SKS Magazine, SKS ammo for a 30 caliber gun, masks, bug detector, brass catcher, AKS Mag big nuts, other nuts.

GW4 met someone in person (from Facebook) on the side of the Hwy and purchased a 40 caliber Glock. This is according to his uncle CN who accompanied him.

Scheiderer:
We know the three calibers of firearms that were used to commit these murders. A 22 caliber long rifle, a 40 caliber, and a 30 caliber.

Snipped and BBM

At a local auto parts store cash was used to buy 10 freeze plugs that suppress sound, SKS Magazine, SKS ammo for a 30 caliber gun, masks, bug detector, brass catcher, AKS Mag big nuts, other nuts.

An auto parts store sells gun ammo and magazines as well as bug detectors?

Each of those would be from separate specialty stores here, gun or electronics-type. I don't think even Walmart sells ammo in CT. I could be wrong.

 

[CIA Team Member]

"As previously reported, the case against Edward Wagner may prove key to the prosecution in all of the Rhoden murders."

Past suspect behaviors, grisly murder scene photos may play parts in Rhoden trials - Portsmouth Daily Times

I think this is why Jake's trial will be first.

I always thought prosecutors take the one most likely to flip first

Think about who benefits if Billy goes to prison for life and Fred dies. The other brother has his own business and apparently has nothing to do with FWF or the rest of the family. Billy's kids are going down with him so no one left. Maybe that is why RW was so calm and collected?

JMO

It was always my first thought RW was the female who overheard the conversations. I'm sticking with it, ATM.

 

[Cool Cats]

Snipped and BBM

At a local auto parts store cash was used to buy 10 freeze plugs that suppress sound, SKS Magazine, SKS ammo for a 30 caliber gun, masks, bug detector, brass catcher, AKS Mag big nuts, other nuts.

An auto parts store sells gun ammo and magazines as well as bug detectors?

Each of those would be from separate specialty stores here, gun or electronics-type. I don't think even Walmart sells ammo in CT. I could be wrong.

The 10 freeze plugs were bought with cash from a local auto parts store.

It's not clear from my notes if the other items were purchased in the auto parts store or elsewhere. Sorry for the confusion. They made online suppressor purchases as well as paid cash in stores.

They bought alot of stuff!

Stuff they can't account for now.

Thank you for mentioning it so I can double check.

 

[Cool Cats]

"GW4 met someone in person (from Facebook) on the side of the Hwy and purchased a 40 caliber Glock. This is according to his uncle CN who accompanied him."

So he did purchase a new Glock.

It was a 40 Glock and a 40 caliber was used in the murders as well as a 30 caliber and GW4 is also associated with a 30 caliber. Remember when DeWine wanted people to come forward who had any dealings with the Wagners concerning firearms? I wonder if they interviewed the Facebook guy who sold it to him.

Jake is associated with the 22 long rifle.

 

[Loomis124]

"GW4 met someone in person (from Facebook) on the side of the Hwy and purchased a 40 caliber Glock. This is according to his uncle CN who accompanied him."

So he did purchase a new Glock.

Yes, but it was G3 that got caught flashing the Glock 40 years ago...