Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #127

[Tricia]

Welcome back to the Delphi Murders discussion thread.

On the afternoon of Feb. 13th, 2017, best friends Abigail Williams and Liberty German were dropped off at a bridge in the town of Delphi. On Feb 14th their bodies were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the bridge.
The Sheriff's office gave a press conference on 4/22/19 and we have some solid information. Please take a look below

HERE IS THE NEW SKETCH FROM THE PRESS CONFERENCE ON 4/22/19

HERE IS THE NEW AUDIO. IT'S-A BIT LONGER THAN THE FIRST AUDIO:
https://www.in.gov/isp/files/Delphi_Audio_Edited_2019x3.wav

Here is the old audio in a loop:
http://www.in.gov/isp/files/Delphi_male_voice_loop.mp3

LATEST PRESS CONFERENCE 4/22/19

FOR MORE CLICK HERE FOR THE CARROL COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE FACEBOOK PAGE.

Anyone with information about this case, no matter how insignificant, is encouraged to call the Delphi Homicide Investigation Tip Line at (844) 459-5786.

Information can also be reported by calling the Indiana State Police at(800) 382-7537, or the Carroll County Sheriff's Department at (765) 564-2413.

Information can also be emailed to Abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com

video of press conference from 2017 02/22/17: https://www.facebook.com/NewsCenter1...4728963476130/

Let's do this. Let's commit to getting this killer's picture and voice out there any possible way we can.

Pictures of Abby and Libby

Link to post with all Threads #1-98 (Courtesy of margarita25)

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Rules Etiquette & Information

Case map by skibaboo updated with grayhuze crime flow video

Grayhuze youtube channel

Verified Insiders: None in this case at this time. Verified Professional, Member michael.gartley, is a Verified Expert in Imaging Science.

RULES OF THIS DISCUSSION
DO NOT post photos of random individuals (including persons featured in MSM articles about other area crimes) to compare to the images of unidentified suspect on the bridge.

PLEASE DO NOT POST PICTURES OF SEX OFFENDERS!

Do not sleuth family, PERIOD. This includes previous public records which have nothing to do with this case. They are victims here. Plain and simple.

If you feel you have a tip, by all means, phone it in. Do NOT discuss your tip here. Contact the authorities and give them time to follow your lead.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Some posts have been removed as off topic. Hopefully the following clarifies.

For those enquiring about the use of initials, reference is made in TOS under Name Calling and Derogatory Name Variations by simply stating "Initials may be used, and are encouraged".

There are rules and then there are policies. WS policy is to NOT use full names so that the names of innocent people are not forever etched in stone on a crime sleuthing website when they may have had nothing to do with the actual crime. It could also have potential legal ramifications that nobody needs. The policy has been that we can use full names for a victim and a POI/suspect who has been officially named by LE but for most others we use initials. It is a matter of discretion and WSers have been adhering to that policy for about 20 years now and it has served us well, so it is very possible for members to get used to it. If we can get to know members by their anonymous user IDs such as 1973Aplus8, surely we can get used to initials used throughout a specific case.

Example: One thread some of us are familiar with, a person not only self-identified, but also stated they knew they were a POI although LE had not named them as such. That highly qualified person subsequently reported they were having difficulty getting employment because their name was showing up to potential employers in google searches connected to discussion of a horrific murder.

This is Thread #123 for Abby and Libby and we've have done alright so far. If someone wants to complete the list of initials and abbreviations, please submit it to us via private message and we will include it in future Opening Posts. Otherwise, please stay on topic in this thread.

If you have questions, please do not discuss them on the thread so we don't derail the thread with off topic conversation. You may private message a Mod or Admin for clarification.

Thanks.

 

[Sillybilly]

Hey everyone,

Other than a similarity to the Delphi sketch, there is no indication from LE that Martrell Weaver is considered a POI or suspect in the murders of Libby and Abby. We've been down this road before where there are similarities between sketches and other individuals but there ends up being no connection.

Please do not continue to discuss him unless/until we find out that LE is investigating him as a POI or suspect in relation to the Delphi case.

As usual, members may sleuth behind the scenes and discuss via private messaging where up to 20 members can be added to the private conversation. Just don't post your findings on this public thread.

If there is any change, we will review it if/when that happens.

Thanks.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

This thread is becoming rife with rumor posts and creating extra work for our Moderators in having to review and trying to determine what is known fact and what is rumor.

RUMORS ARE NOT ALLOWED.

If you can't link information to Websleuths approves sources, do NOT post it with "I read it somewhere" or "I'll find the link later ...".

This is Websleuths folks. Take time to do your homework. Please don't just throw stuff out there. Before you post something make doubly sure what you are stating is FACT as we know it from MSM, LE or another approved Websleuths source.

Thank you.

 

[girlfriday]

The discussion earlier, about dumping grounds, has been something I've wondered about. It seemed so odd to me that the bodies were missed during the Feb 13th search. But, I've now seen how very dark it became, as the night wore on. I found this coverage from media, from the early morning hours of Feb 14, 2017, while many were still searching through the night, to be helpful:

I hope it's OK to link the news site video from their channel, as I could not find it in their website archives.

Edited: typo *link not like and to fix date *2017 not 2020

 

[Hoosierfan72]

So I'm new to this thread and am trying to catch up, as I live in Indiana (about an hour from Delphi) and am somewhat familiar with this case (though admittedly haven't followed it closely). I've scanned through the media thread, but am curious as to what the prevailing thought (if there is one) seems to be on the forum:

I know initially the belief the BG was likely from the Delphi area, or at least very familiar with it. Is this still what LE seems to be leaning toward?

Is there any clarity on the DNA situation? I watched the Genetic Detective earlier this year and thought about this case - seems like it would be a perfect scenario for that approach - does the lack of progress there seem to indicate the lack of a full DNA profile?

 

[StarryStarryNight]

There is one possibility I have thought of, but I think it is very unlikely. That possibility being "guys" is not how he is addressing the girls, but "guys" is what he uses to describe a separate set of people to the girls. For instance, the "Guys (inaudible) down the hill" may be saying "Guys are waiting (for one of them) down the hill"

There is the very slight chance the BG man could be someone warning them that there is a group of guys downhill and to not go that way (which could possibly explain why a new sketch is out that appears to be drastically different) He could have said "Guys, don't go down the hill" or something like that, and they could have just thought he was a creep and ran down the hill to get away from him. I know that is very, very unlikely but there is lots and lots we don't know.

I think if LE had heard BG say what you suggest on the audio then they would not have said the bridge guy is the killer.
I do believe there is probably more audio and LE doesn’t want to share it, but if this is what they are keeping quiet, it would change the whole scope of the investigation and mean they are lying about who they are looking for.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

True, but they are "representing" the case. How Bible Belt is relevant one might vividly see from "the Shack". Was it just an Evangelical analogy? Did DC hint at some shack nearby? In a different area of the country, I'd probably know the answer regardless of religious affiliation. In the Bible Belt, who knows?

Indiana is not part of the Bible Belt. The Bible Belt runs pretty much through the southern states, and I live in it. I’m sure Indiana has tons of church going residents but it is not and has never been part of the traditional Bible Belt.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

The term "guys", IMO, most likely used by:

1. Coaches
2. Scout leaders
3. Teachers
4. Church youth group leaders
5. Persons employed in juvenile detention or residential treatment facilities

6. Someone, who is used to addressing a crowd of people of different ages of both sexes, because of his extraordinary job, which is different from normal jobs. IMO
ETA: added: "..., because ...."

 

[Yemelyan]

The discussion earlier, about dumping grounds, has been something I've wondered about. It seemed so odd to me that the bodies were missed during the Feb 13th search. But, I've now seen how very dark it became, as the night wore on. I found this coverage from media, from the early morning hours of Feb 14, 2017, while many were still searching through the night, to be helpful:

I hope it's OK to link the news site video from their channel, as I could not find it in their website archives.

Edited: typo *link not like and to fix date *2017 not 2020

It's VERY unlikely that the girls were killed somewhere else and then returned to the area, for a variety of reasons. This scenario is not consistent with what is known about this crime so far.

Ron Logan's property was not searched exhaustively prior to their discovery. Remember that in the first several hours (for some people, right up until the girls were found) no one suspected they were looking for a crime scene or dead bodies. They thought the girls had an accident somewhere in the vicinity of the bridge OR, more likely, that they had tried to walk home or to a friend's house along county roads and gotten lost.

Many, perhaps the majority of searchers the first day, were looking on the trail system back toward Delphi itself and in farm fields and along potential walking routes the girls might have taken.

@girlfriday You seem kind of new to this case. I'd suggest listening to the podcast Scene of the Crime (this gives a overview of the case plus you hear a lot of information in the family nembers' own words about what was going on) or the podcast Down the Hill (also an overview but with more information from LE about the decisions they made and why). These two podcasts actually answer a lot of the questions that come up over and over again on this forum.

 

[Yemelyan]

So I'm new to this thread and am trying to catch up, as I live in Indiana (about an hour from Delphi) and am somewhat familiar with this case (though admittedly haven't followed it closely). I've scanned through the media thread, but am curious as to what the prevailing thought (if there is one) seems to be on the forum:

I know initially the belief the BG was likely from the Delphi area, or at least very familiar with it. Is this still what LE seems to be leaning toward?

From the most recent press conference, this quote:
The result of the new information and intelligence over time leads us to believe the sketch, which you will see shortly, IS the person responsible for the murders of these two little girls. We also believe this person is from Delphi- currently, or has previously lived here, visits Delphi on a regular basis, or works here.

Is there any clarity on the DNA situation? I watched the Genetic Detective earlier this year and thought about this case - seems like it would be a perfect scenario for that approach - does the lack of progress there seem to indicate the lack of a full DNA profile?

No, there is no clarity on this. LE has stated they are aware of technology like this and are looking into all options.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

There are 4 benches along the main trail, I'd thought there were three. Another bench is located off of the trail some feet, where the Girard trail begins, and it provides a nice view of the gorge.

You can clearly see the memorial from the 4th bench, which confirms for me that BG most likely was at the bench, watching the main trail and the short trail which leads to where the girls were dropped off. The Girard Trail also branches off right by there. He would have been able to watch that "intersection" from the 4th bench (4th from the trailhead by Freedom Bridge), especially with the vegetation being down in February. The girls would have walked through there on their way to the bridge.

It took me 5.5 minutes to walk from the trailhead to the 4th bench. MHB to the memorial/intersection spot took me 3,5 minutes, much shorter than I'd thought it would take. From MHB back to the parking area by IN 25 took 13.5 minutes.

All of those times were much shorter than I'd thought they would take for a healthy adult.

Interesting. I thought there were three benches also, but I can't say it was a focus. While visiting I was envisioning Bridge Guy seated on that Girard bench overlooking the creek. That bench angles left, meaning Bridge Guy could hear the girls from behind him walking from the drop off area, then merely turn his head or shift his body left to see if they were suitable victims:

imgur.com

They would have also seen him sitting there, and perhaps made a brief evaluation, but basically all they'd see is the back of his head and perhaps a partial profile.

One of countless possibilities. I focused on that bench primarily because of the notion that the girls had seen him on the trail. I think that's less likely if he was near a different bench, although I can't say I remember exactly where that other bench was, the one you referred to as the 4th bench.

Otherwise those walking times from spot to spot do sound lower than I would have estimated. But I was stopping to look around and take pictures so frequently I might have lost track of the actual distances, and therefore potential if doing nothing except steady brisk pace.

I have never heard of anything resembling 8 cars. Nothing is going to shake my insistence that this is a low-traveled trail, and that's the reason Bridge Guy picked the area in the first place. If he showed up when 8 cars were there he would have departed within 30 seconds.

 

[wary]

YEs, thanks to some responding posts, I think we have now established that LE states conclusively that the voice is of ONE male. You are correct.

Amateur opinion and speculation

I think that it sounds to some people like two different people, because two different things are going on.

“Guys...” to get their attention. “Down the hill,” a command.

 

[Ozoner]

I think that it sounds to some people like two different people, because two different things are going on.

“Guys...” to get their attention. “Down the hill,” a command.

Yes. The intonation is different, but the voice is the same.

 

[Ozoner]

I agree. Using the word “guys” as an informal reference to two or more people, regardless of gender, has been around for decades. The reason - because there’s no word in the English language that’s the plural of “you”.

Precisely.

The history -

The Surprising Origins of the Phrase 'You Guys'
“Then by the middle of the 20th century, women began using the word too. They increasingly used “you guys” when addressing others in the plural, regardless of gender. More and more speakers unconsciously voted for “guys,” till that was that: it was the people’s choice.”

Good article. I knew the history behind the disappearance of thou, but I had no idea that guys was connected to Guy Fawkes.

 

[Falling Down]

Interesting. I thought there were three benches also, but I can't say it was a focus. While visiting I was envisioning Bridge Guy seated on that Girard bench overlooking the creek. That bench angles left, meaning Bridge Guy could hear the girls from behind him walking from the drop off area, then merely turn his head or shift his body left to see if they were suitable victims:

imgur.com

They would have also seen him sitting there, and perhaps made a brief evaluation, but basically all they'd see is the back of his head and perhaps a partial profile.

One of countless possibilities. I focused on that bench primarily because of the notion that the girls had seen him on the trail. I think that's less likely if he was near a different bench, although I can't say I remember exactly where that other bench was, the one you referred to as the 4th bench.

Otherwise those walking times from spot to spot do sound lower than I would have estimated. But I was stopping to look around and take pictures so frequently I might have lost track of the actual distances, and therefore potential if doing nothing except steady brisk pace.

I have never heard of anything resembling 8 cars. Nothing is going to shake my insistence that this is a low-traveled trail, and that's the reason Bridge Guy picked the area in the first place. If he showed up when 8 cars were there he would have departed within 30 seconds.

I agree, I think he was hanging around, watching people, and could have been at either bench.

After I encountered the elderly couple on the Girard Trail, I was soon to be alone out there, down in the gorge.

Walking back up the trail, and on to the main trail, nobody else was there.

It was only when I headed back to my vehicle that I encountered two couples at the trailhead by the Freedom Bridge. This was late on a Sunday afternoon.

I'd imagine on a normal work day the trail traffic would be sporadic and that not many people visit.

JMO

 

[JimmyWells]

YEs, thanks to some responding posts, I think we have now established that LE states conclusively that the voice is of ONE male. You are correct.

Amateur opinion and speculation

Yes. The intonation is different, but the voice is the same.

Can you say that conclusively? I mean, would you bet your life on it? Did it ever cross your mind that both sketches are accurate while BG and the guy in the second scratch were in cahoots? Complete speculation, I know, but we may know about five percent of the whole story with the evidence which has been released. Investigators probably know about thirty percent of what happened, substantially higher if the murder is on audio. If it indeed was, then police know for sure if there were multiple offenders, but they could be deceiving the public to get the suspect or suspects complacent and chattery.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Can you say that conclusively? I mean, would you bet your life on it? Did it ever cross your mind that both sketches are accurate while BG and the guy in the second scratch were in cahoots? Complete speculation, I know, but we may know about five percent of the whole story with the evidence which has been released. Investigators probably know about thirty percent of what happened, substantially higher if the murder is on audio. If it indeed was, then police know for sure if there were multiple offenders, but they could be deceiving the public to get the suspect or suspects complacent and chattery.

While anything is possible, the TOS for this forum is to stick to MSM (main stream media) data as our factual basis for discussion. LE has stated there is only one voice on that audio snippet. As such, that's what we are speculating on.

Time will tell.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[rosesfromangels]

I agree, I think he was hanging around, watching people, and could have been at either bench.

After I encountered the elderly couple on the Girard Trail, I was soon to be alone out there, down in the gorge.

Walking back up the trail, and on to the main trail, nobody else was there.

It was only when I headed back to my vehicle that I encountered two couples at the trailhead by the Freedom Bridge. This was late on a Sunday afternoon.

I'd imagine on a normal work day the trail traffic would be sporadic and that not many people visit.

JMO

BBM. That doesn't make sense to me. Why would a Perp who was there to commit murder "hang around watching people" and run the risk of several people seeing them, and potentially be able to provide a description of them after the crime? IWT they would be lurking more in the shadows tracking their prey?
Who knows, that miscreant Bundy was grandiose and "invincible" and perpetrated some of his crimes boldly in front of others. Hard to say.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Ozoner]

Can you say that conclusively? I mean, would you bet your life on it?

Snipped.

To answer your question, yes, I would bet my life on it.