Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #127

[Rossymom]

Just thought I'd mention an arrest of someone from Hancock Co for child molestation. He was found in a small town in Missouri where some of us have been following the disappearance of an elderly woman.

Police say man accused of child molestation apprehended in Missouri | WTTV CBS4Indy

Highly unlikely its related, but just thought I would mention the perp and arrest since he committed his crimes in the general region of that part of IN.

What if the Bridge Guy is someone who took off after the crimes? What if he's someone who is comfortable traveling to small towns and doing his act to fit in with locals?

Yikes! He sure resembles the first sketch, in my opinion.

 

[sunshineray]

If someone wanted to know, what LE have on the case, (as they said at the PC), they have to know their suspect No.1, namely the one person, who asked questions and wanted to be informed very well. Whether through an intermediary or by himself. IMO
So, I think, their shortlist is verrry short perhaps.

I agree with you on this. I do believe the list is limited and dare I say focused on a handful of knowns or even possibly a grouping of males from one extended family. AJMO

 

[sunshineray]

Yes, you've identified one of the main differences between the Delphi and Evansdale cases...curve of the river aside, in Iowa the girls were probably killed elsewhere and transported to that secretive spot to be hidden, in Delphi they were most likely killed in the location where they were found. To some who analyze this case, that's enough of a difference in offender behavior to shed a lot of doubt on their connection. But, nothing has been ruled out of course.

I'm not that knowledgeable about the Evansdale murders. Where the girls were found, was there an access road close by or was it in a area you could only hike into? TIA

 

[sunshineray]

In Iowa the killer had to wait for the bodies to be found. In Delphi he wanted attention immediately imo and left them where he killed them so they would be found sooner not later. His mode of operation may change slightly as he hones his skills and he may crave all of the attention from LE, the public and the media coverage.

The big difference to me is the Evansdale killer(s) had a plan to snatch and transport the victims. Delphi killer(s) I believe had no intention of taking the girls anywhere else but in that Delphi trail park. AJMO

 

[Yemelyan]

I'm not that knowledgeable about the Evansdale murders. Where the girls were found, was there an access road close by or was it in a area you could only hike into? TIA

There was a road that made roughly a loop through the reserve.

 

[Charlot123]

For me personally, my research into the topic has formed my belief that one of the overriding factors in opportunistic types of offenders (which I believe this was, I don't subscribe to any type of advance targeting in this case based in what is known publicly) is the offender's level of comfort within the geographic area within which he selects AND disposes of victims. So most of the things I post here are my opinions of offender behavior based on this and it's just MOO.

Respectfully snipped by me.

I am reading your very interesting and educational posts and enjoying them. However, I apologize in advance for occasionally thinking, “maybe not always”.

Veering off into a totally different area of crime, with a very sympathetic perpetrator -
Richard “Beebo” Russell, who on one warm night of 2018, stole a Bombardier from Sea-Tac Airport, flew over Puget Sound, and then, having performed some acrobatic maneuvers. crashed into Ketron island. Until now, no one can believe that the man did not even have a pilot’s license, and all his training was on some flight simulator game.

Same about the level of comfort of the perpetrators. Do they really need to live in the area, or even travel there, or can a good simulator map be already enough?

I thought Gray Hughes showed something akin to a simulator, but maybe I am wrong.

Is there a computer game with something like Google Earth in it?

Why do I always have this feeling that for modern planning of an abduction, perpetrators don’t need to know the real place?

 

[Charlot123]

I agree if the cases are related he has escalated and is taking bigger risks. The thing about most of the serial killers I have read about, which is about all of them, some that I wished I had never read, by the way...what you will find is they are shockingly uninteresting and even if they are cunning, which they certainly need to be, they are usually rather basic and dull, with flat affect and shallowness of personality. They are almost never accomplished or intellectual... like a Hanibal character. and think about it..duh..they have no feelings...it's all about sex and control
for the most part, and the relief they feel from expressing violent anger, sexual rage.

This is a super sadist if the cases are related..he escalates because he wants closer access to the pain and shock of victims and families because this is incredibly arousing to him. mOO

Could this killer, and other serial killers, suffer from alexithymia? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexithymia

a common condition, hence I often mention it.

In reality, let us assume that we all have a “midline” of emotions, if it is drawn at 50, then maybe, at 45-55, a normal person would be unaware of specific emotions, but at 1-45 and 56-100, he’s able to feel and describe them.

A person with alexithymia would probably name emotions at 90-100 and 11-1, but not anything in between. So extreme emotions, anger, sadness, happiness, madness, satisfaction- he’d name, but nothing in between.

I think serial killers have feelings, but are not in touch with them. It transforms into the need to seek something extreme to seek satisfaction, because normal emotions are not “registered” nor “named”.

Just a thought.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Could this killer, and other serial killers, suffer from alexithymia? Alexithymia - Wikipedia

a common condition, hence I often mention it.

In reality, let us assume that we all have a “midline” of emotions, if it is drawn at 50, then maybe, at 45-55, a normal person would be unaware of specific emotions, but at 1-45 and 56-100, he’s able to feel and describe them.

A person with alexithymia would probably name emotions at 90-100 and 11-1, but not anything in between. So extreme emotions, anger, sadness, happiness, madness, satisfaction- he’d name, but nothing in between.

I think serial killers have feelings, but are not in touch with them. It transforms into the need to seek something extreme to seek satisfaction, because normal emotions are not “registered” nor “named”.

Just a thought.

On the other hand, while the total alexithymia score as well as the difficulty in identifying feelings and externally oriented thinking factors are found to be significantly associated with ADHD, and while the total alexithymia score, the difficulty in identifying feelings, and the difficulty in describing feelings factors are also significantly associated with symptoms of hyperactivity/impulsivity, there's no significant relationship between alexithymia and inattentiveness symptom.[30]

from your WIKI-link

We are at the ADHD again, therefore I think, it might be a true possibility re this killer. If only someone would take it seriously and think of a person, who is known for that and is fulfilling all the other criteria also. Parents/siblings will know, but they won't be willing to give him up.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Yikes! He sure resembles the first sketch, in my opinion.

Not a line of double chin in that sketch #1 like the molester has. The man seems to have brown eyes and BG could never be described with having brown eyes ("not blue"). IMO not our man.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Yes, I pointed out in an earlier post of mine that the size of the victims definitely could have played a role in the killer's decision-making with regard to what he did after the murders in the Delphi case.

Which actually brings up another difference to Evansdale...the two sets of victims were both children but Abby and Libby by virtue of size and circumstance (they were not in school when BG might have expected children to be) may have appeared to be much older teens at a distance/when he first zeroed in on them. There was also a size difference between the Evansdale victims but they were riding children's bikes and even had toys with them when they encountered their abductor (s) - IMO there was no mistaking that Lyric and Lizzie were definitely pre-pubescent children.

I do agree that not enough is known - to the public - to completely rule out a connection between the two cases but I think people get too wrapped up in comparing the dates and in facts like they were both found in places with "bridge" in the name.

Those types of things are interesting to speculate about but IMO not as important to investigators as factors like how the victims were selected, how they were lured/abducted, and how their bodies were disposed after the crime. So I'm just here to point out that there may be some very significant differences between the two cases there.

The unknown perp might have noticed, that the little girls from Iowa were very easy to "handle" and were no challenge for him and his physical strength as well as speed. After that experience he would have known: a future strike would work with teenagers as well (in daylight too, despite witnesses to his car also). IMO
Also IMO: he placed some other crime in the years between 2012 and 2017, completely different approach and one victim only (Missy B./TX).

 

[Yemelyan]

Respectfully snipped by me.

I am reading your very interesting and educational posts and enjoying them. However, I apologize in advance for occasionally thinking, “maybe not always”.

Snipped by me.

I try to be very careful in my posts to use words such as "likely" "probably" "typical" "usually" "rare" to denote patterns of offender behaviors. In my posts, I also frequently refer to the fact that for every pattern you can find, you will also be able to find examples of offenders that do NOT fit. The outliers. So there's nothing wrong with thinking "not always" because I never claim that any of this happens "always."

Behavioral patterns do, however, still provide a helpful framework for interpreting the evidence at crime scenes, but that's my personal opinion. I'm just here to share the research into this topic.

For example, maybe in the course of your interest in crime you heard the "fact" that most children are killed by a family member and so in the early days of this case that fact informed your theory of the Delphi murders. Well, that fact is true, overall most children are killed as a result of domestic abuse from a family member or intimate in the home when you look at the pool of all child murders...but when you add in other factors of the crime such as did they go missing beforehand (actually missing, not staged after death), what were they doing just prior to disappearance, were their bodies ultimately found in a public area, how old were they, are they male or female, etc - a different picture emerges from this data that tells us that a "Delphi type" of crime is perpetrated by a family member a really, really low amount of the time. And the frequency of this type of crime being perpetrated by a total stranger, which is a low occurrence among most murders, suddenly is comparatively very high.

If you find it useful (as I do) to know the statistics and the pattern of offender behavior on this, great. If not, feel free to take it with a very large grain of salt (that's what I do for a very large number of posts here).

 

[rosesfromangels]

Snipped by me.

I try to be very careful in my posts to use words such as "likely" "probably" "typical" "usually" "rare" to denote patterns of offender behaviors. In my posts, I also frequently refer to the fact that for every pattern you can find, you will also be able to find examples of offenders that do NOT fit. The outliers. So there's nothing wrong with thinking "not always" because I never claim that any of this happens "always."

Behavioral patterns do, however, still provide a helpful framework for interpreting the evidence at crime scenes, but that's my personal opinion. I'm just here to share the research into this topic.

For example, maybe in the course of your interest in crime you heard the "fact" that most children are killed by a family member and so in the early days of this case that fact informed your theory of the Delphi murders. Well, that fact is true, overall most children are killed as a result of domestic abuse from a family member or intimate in the home when you look at the pool of all child murders...but when you add in other factors of the crime such as did they go missing beforehand (actually missing, not staged after death), what were they doing just prior to disappearance, were their bodies ultimately found in a public area, how old were they, are they male or female, etc - a different picture emerges from this data that tells us that a "Delphi type" of crime is perpetrated by a family member a really, really low amount of the time. And the frequency of this type of crime being perpetrated by a total stranger, which is a low occurrence among most murders, suddenly is comparatively very high.

If you find it useful (as I do) to know the statistics and the pattern of offender behavior on this, great. If not, feel free to take it with a very large grain of salt (that's what I do for a very large number of posts here).

Great post. What you are referring to is true data science, vs. my amateur research.
As an amateur, I diddle around with data seeking insights, and to see if I can detect any emerging patterns. Even knowing what to query is an amazing talent in itself. With technology advancing, data tools are becoming available for "the rest of us," and it's really mind blowing how much we can learn....even as amateurs. Thank you for sharing your insights, and please keep them coming.

I keep struggling with how this Perp murdered these children within a certain proximity to homeowner properties; seemingly within earshot. I can't reconcile this point, and it's bothering me.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Charlot123]

On the other hand, while the total alexithymia score as well as the difficulty in identifying feelings and externally oriented thinking factors are found to be significantly associated with ADHD, and while the total alexithymia score, the difficulty in identifying feelings, and the difficulty in describing feelings factors are also significantly associated with symptoms of hyperactivity/impulsivity, there's no significant relationship between alexithymia and inattentiveness symptom.[30]

from your WIKI-link

We are at the ADHD again, therefore I think, it might be a true possibility re this killer. If only someone would take it seriously and think of a person, who is known for that and is fulfilling all the other criteria also. Parents/siblings will know, but they won't be willing to give him up.

It is hard to discuss an unknown killer, although one can project...

1) I think Chris Watts's case can be discussed from this perspective, as much has been known about him. I think that he suffered from this condition, and during his life with SW, whatever he was unhappy with, he tried to "rationalize", and it did not work well (like the idea of having one more kid to strengthen the marriage, my!). And that some, essentially, fling, has resulted in such dramatic consequences has to do with the fact that somehow, some breakthrough had happened, and his emotions towards NK, he was able to feel and name. Anything around it got even more out of focus, of course, except for maybe anger and fear. But what he did with the kids - it was total alexithymia in action.

2) I wonder if one word we might frequently hear from people suffering form alexithymia is "boredom". If the Delphi killer is young, this word his relatives might have heard from him often.

 

[Charlot123]

Snipped by me.

I try to be very careful in my posts to use words such as "likely" "probably" "typical" "usually" "rare" to denote patterns of offender behaviors. In my posts, I also frequently refer to the fact that for every pattern you can find, you will also be able to find examples of offenders that do NOT fit. The outliers. So there's nothing wrong with thinking "not always" because I never claim that any of this happens "always."

Behavioral patterns do, however, still provide a helpful framework for interpreting the evidence at crime scenes, but that's my personal opinion. I'm just here to share the research into this topic.

For example, maybe in the course of your interest in crime you heard the "fact" that most children are killed by a family member and so in the early days of this case that fact informed your theory of the Delphi murders. Well, that fact is true, overall most children are killed as a result of domestic abuse from a family member or intimate in the home when you look at the pool of all child murders...but when you add in other factors of the crime such as did they go missing beforehand (actually missing, not staged after death), what were they doing just prior to disappearance, were their bodies ultimately found in a public area, how old were they, are they male or female, etc - a different picture emerges from this data that tells us that a "Delphi type" of crime is perpetrated by a family member a really, really low amount of the time. And the frequency of this type of crime being perpetrated by a total stranger, which is a low occurrence among most murders, suddenly is comparatively very high.

If you find it useful (as I do) to know the statistics and the pattern of offender behavior on this, great. If not, feel free to take it with a very large grain of salt (that's what I do for a very large number of posts here).

Oh, I find your information interesting, and sometime use to analyze other cases, in other states (some in mine, too...the distance between the abduction and the body, what it means, for example). What I am always thinking about in conjunction with the Delphi case, though, is that we are desperately in need of a young gamer to analyze it. Something in this case is off... I just think I am too old to understand all details. And I also think we are having a new generation of young gamers growing up, and unless we are big-time gamers ourselves, or use them to look at such cases, not everything will work. So we shall have a number of outlier cases, or they will look as outliers, but they will be not, to younger people.

MOO. I was looking at footage of one case from TX, how the guy moved, how he disappeared, he did look like a figure from a game to me.

 

[Kimpossible31]

The unknown perp might have noticed, that the little girls from Iowa were very easy to "handle" and were no challenge for him and his physical strength as well as speed. After that experience he would have known: a future strike would work with teenagers as well (in daylight too, despite witnesses to his car also). IMO
Also IMO: he placed some other crime in the years between 2012 and 2017, completely different approach and one victim only (Missy B./TX).

Missy B./TX also killer on video and also never caught. I hadn’t thought about this before!

 

[Ozoner]

I'm not entirely convinced this killer is a serial killer. HOWEVER, I do believe he is a serial offender of sex related crimes. If he has killed since he likely has hidden the bodies of his victims and they are classified as missing persons and not murders. I don't believe this killer expected the massive amount of attention these murders generated and, along with video and audio, was probably really scared for months. If he came to the conclusion that he got away with this, I believe it is likely he evolved and hid his subsequent victims. Whether he is a serial killer or not, I do believe he has committed other crimes of a sexual nature prior to this one. I don't believe this killer just started down this path of murder with Abigail and Liberty that day. I believe he committed other offenses against children or sexual assault prior to the murders and may have not been caught for those crimes.

Great post. What you are referring to is true data science, vs. my amateur research.
As an amateur, I diddle around with data seeking insights, and to see if I can detect any emerging patterns. Even knowing what to query is an amazing talent in itself. With technology advancing, data tools are becoming available for "the rest of us," and it's really mind blowing how much we can learn....even as amateurs. Thank you for sharing your insights, and please keep them coming.

I keep struggling with how this Perp murdered these children within a certain proximity to homeowner properties; seemingly within earshot. I can't reconcile this point, and it's bothering me.

Amateur opinion and speculation

It wasn't within earshot of any house interiors. It might have been within earshot of the snowbirds' backyard, but even if they had been in Indiana, they wouldn't have heard anything unless they had been in their backyard at the time.
The girls were probably too terrified to make any noise, anyway, so there probably wasn't anything to hear.

 

[Charlot123]

The unknown perp might have noticed, that the little girls from Iowa were very easy to "handle" and were no challenge for him and his physical strength as well as speed. After that experience he would have known: a future strike would work with teenagers as well (in daylight too, despite witnesses to his car also). IMO
Also IMO: he placed some other crime in the years between 2012 and 2017, completely different approach and one victim only (Missy B./TX).

About Missy B - could be a woman on video, too. "Small", soft, economic movements.

 

[Charlot123]

What was the name of a call girl (somewhere in the South) who got killed and there is a video of her client walking out of the condo, in eyeglasses?

 

[Yemelyan]

What was the name of a call girl (somewhere in the South) who got killed and there is a video of her client walking out of the condo, in eyeglasses?

Shelbey Thornburg.

 

[cujenn81]

On the other hand, while the total alexithymia score as well as the difficulty in identifying feelings and externally oriented thinking factors are found to be significantly associated with ADHD, and while the total alexithymia score, the difficulty in identifying feelings, and the difficulty in describing feelings factors are also significantly associated with symptoms of hyperactivity/impulsivity, there's no significant relationship between alexithymia and inattentiveness symptom.[30]

from your WIKI-link

We are at the ADHD again, therefore I think, it might be a true possibility re this killer. If only someone would take it seriously and think of a person, who is known for that and is fulfilling all the other criteria also. Parents/siblings will know, but they won't be willing to give him up.

I pulled up the linked study on Wikipedia in regards to the statement you referenced about ADHD. The sample size for this study was extremely small, and the author even states that future longitudinal studies with larger sample sizes are warranted to confirm the findings. As a result, I don’t think an extremely significant correlation with ADHD can (or should) be considered a proven fact.

I also pulled up additional journal articles about alexithymia and found no other mention of ADHD. I did find that many other conditions may (or may not) be associated with the physical trait known as alexithymia — Alzheimer’s Disease, epilepsy, anorexia, bulimia, Huntington’s Disease, stroke, childhood trauma or neglect, PTSD, traumatic brain injuries, Parkinson’s Disease, depression, anxiety, autism, substance abuse, sexual disorders, chronic pain disorders, fibromyalgia, and migraines. That’s quite the list.

In my opinion, an investigation into individuals diagnosed with ADHD (or any other neurological or psychological disorder, for that matter) would be fruitless and only prove to further stigmatize individuals with such disorders. Although, I’m likely more sensitive about the issue than most because I’ve been diagnosed with ADHD myself.

Side note — I can recognize and describe my emotions and “bodily sensations” with ease (possibly too much ease, actually).