OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #58

[CIA Team Member]

I don't know. It's possible the killers are so deranged that they only killed Kenny to make it look Cartel-drug gang related. None of us can understand that, we do not have the mind of a killer. But hopefully for Kendra the truth will come out about her father. She might even know now, BCI probably has already told her why they think her dad was targeted.

Kenny, if you believe DS, had dollar bills scattered all over his legs from the knees down. Also, Kenny was the only one with just one gun shot.

Think about it. If true that paper money was tossed over him then there has to be a reason. Why? And only one gunshot, why?

My opinion is to make it look like a drug hit or Cartel hit.

Hard to believe they would kill him for only that reason, could be more reasons.

I think there is a reason they killed him that we do not know about and then they decided to, on top of the unknown reason, to make it look like a Cartel-drug gang type of related hit.

When I researched this money thing I found out that when a drug type gang throws money on a victim it is to send the message that they were greedy and ripped the drug gang off. Also, one shot to the eye is a drug gang thing from what I have researched, but just my opinion only. So I think it is possible the Wagners were trying to do this:

Make the murders look Cartel-drug gang related but also had another motive to kill Kenny.

LE was clear, they tampered with the crime scenes and tried to cover their tracks at the crime scenes but....

DeWine said they left evidence at the crime scenes!!

Opinion only

Wonder if LE tested DNA on those dollar bills.

 

[CIA Team Member]

I don't know. It's possible the killers are so deranged that they only killed Kenny to make it look Cartel-drug gang related. None of us can understand that, we do not have the mind of a killer. But hopefully for Kendra the truth will come out about her father. She might even know now, BCI probably has already told her why they think her dad was targeted.

Kenny, if you believe DS, had dollar bills scattered all over his legs from the knees down. Also, Kenny was the only one with just one gun shot.

Think about it. If true that paper money was tossed over him then there has to be a reason. Why? And only one gunshot, why?

My opinion is to make it look like a drug hit or Cartel hit.

Hard to believe they would kill him for only that reason, could be more reasons.

I think there is a reason they killed him that we do not know about and then they decided to, on top of the unknown reason, to make it look like a Cartel-drug gang type of related hit.

When I researched this money thing I found out that when a drug type gang throws money on a victim it is to send the message that they were greedy and ripped the drug gang off. Also, one shot to the eye is a drug gang thing from what I have researched, but just my opinion only. So I think it is possible the Wagners were trying to do this:

Make the murders look Cartel-drug gang related but also had another motive to kill Kenny.

LE was clear, they tampered with the crime scenes and tried to cover their tracks at the crime scenes but....

DeWine said they left evidence at the crime scenes!!

Opinion only

Wonder if LE tested DNA on those dollar bills.

 

[Cool Cats]

Wonder if LE tested DNA on those dollar bills.

Wonder if LE tested DNA on those dollar bills.

Yes! I'm sure they did.

I think it would have been too risky for a killer to handle a large amount of paper money. Too much chance you are leaving evidence on the bills including the possibility of the bills being traced through forensics and serial numbers etc...

They have really sophisticated labs for trace evidence.

So I'm thinking the money was Kenny's money and they found it and made a last minute decision to toss it on him to confuse the crime scene. Still seems like a weird thing to do when they needed to focus on dismantling all the security cameras.

So I'm going to change my mind that they deliberately brought in money to throw on him and I think now it was a last minute thing simply to confuse the scene.

I hope Jake's trial specifically lays out why they went to Kenny's that night. They didn't bother the other 2 brothers. Maybe it's what Canepa said, that they killed all the witnesses. Maybe Kenny knew something specific they did not want him to know?

 

[Johnny B Bad]

I wonder if the Prosecution has showed Angela and Jakes attorneys enough proof to convict both of them is the reason they haven’t asked for a bond hearing, JMO

 

[Fayette_kid]

CC
LE would have never knew about GW4 love for a 40 caliber Glock Pistol without CN testimony, also that gun that was purchased from a man On Facebook it is probably the murder weapon

This is pretty interesting. In Pennsylvania, for one private individual (i.e. not a licensed firearms dealer) to sell another private individual a pistol, it has to go through a dealer with a FFL (Federal Firearms License). Long guns such as rifles and shotguns are OK to sell face to face on the side of the road without going through a licensed dealer, but that's a big no-no for selling a pistol - that requires a background check. Looks like that isn't the case in Ohio from the little bit of research that I just did.

 

[Betty P]

This is pretty interesting. In Pennsylvania, for one private individual (i.e. not a licensed firearms dealer) to sell another private individual a pistol, it has to go through a dealer with a FFL (Federal Firearms License). Long guns such as rifles and shotguns are OK to sell face to face on the side of the road without going through a licensed dealer, but that's a big no-no for selling a pistol - that requires a background check. Looks like that isn't the case in Ohio from the little bit of research that I just did.

JMO, from reading the news, I don't think any LE in Ohio (or many other states) enforce gun laws currently on the books. People seem to be able to buy whatever they want from whomever has it, no questions asked, no records kept.

 

[Betty P]

Yes! I'm sure they did.

I think it would have been too risky for a killer to handle a large amount of paper money. Too much chance you are leaving evidence on the bills including the possibility of the bills being traced through forensics and serial numbers etc...

They have really sophisticated labs for trace evidence.

So I'm thinking the money was Kenny's money and they found it and made a last minute decision to toss it on him to confuse the crime scene. Still seems like a weird thing to do when they needed to focus on dismantling all the security cameras.

So I'm going to change my mind that they deliberately brought in money to throw on him and I think now it was a last minute thing simply to confuse the scene.

I hope Jake's trial specifically lays out why they went to Kenny's that night. They didn't bother the other 2 brothers. Maybe it's what Canepa said, that they killed all the witnesses. Maybe Kenny knew something specific they did not want him to know?

I have a feeling we'll find out. As DeWine said, we'll be shaking our heads at what they did. The reasoning behind killing Kenneth Rhoden was probably just as crazy and dumb as the reasons for killing the rest of the victims.

As for any evidence that might be revealed at Jake Wagner's next hearing, it will probably surprise the same folks who thought George 4 would walk. Lack of information about incriminating evidence against these characters isn't an indication of lack of evidence. State is playing things very close to the vest and, as usual, when we find out the details, it will be damning.

 

[Cool Cats]

I wonder if the Prosecution has showed Angela and Jakes attorneys enough proof to convict both of them is the reason they haven’t asked for a bond hearing, JMO

I think your right but it also involves alot of money and collateral (house, land, businesses) to put up a high Bond, and I'm talking like a million dollar Bond is probably what it would be. Where would they get the money and collateral to even put up a Bond? Where on earth would they even stay for their house arrest?

I think you are right but I think it also involves logistics that these 2 cannot overcome.

Fred was clearly involved with Billy's Bond Motion because Flying W Farms was specifically mentioned in his Bond Motion, that he would be caretaker there.

This leads me to believe she was behind both GW4's Bond Motion and Billy's. Fronting the Bond money, ankle monitoring money, a place to live for their house arrest with the normal household bills including their meals...Then to put up collateral of her vast businesses and property holdings, etc...is what I mean.

Fred could not be expected to do all this X's 4.

Why she picked Billy and GW4 is anyone's guess.

Opinion only

 

[Dudly]

I think your right but it also involves alot of money and collateral (house, land, businesses) to put up a high Bond, and I'm talking like a million dollar Bond is probably what it would be. Where would they get the money and collateral to even put up a Bond? Where on earth would they even stay for their house arrest?

I think you are right but I think it also involves logistics that these 2 cannot overcome.

Fred was clearly involved with Billy's Bond Motion because Flying W Farms was specifically mentioned in his Bond Motion, that he would be caretaker there.

This leads me to believe she was behind both GW4's Bond Motion and Billy's. Fronting the Bond money, ankle monitoring money, a place to live for their house arrest with the normal household bills including their meals...Then to put up collateral of her vast businesses and property holdings, etc...is what I mean.

Fred could not be expected to do all this X's 4.

Why she picked Billy and GW4 is anyone's guess.

Opinion only

Why could they not live in the house they lived in when arrested?

 

[Ann99]

Theory, Thoughts about bail motions, bail money, the glock purchase, Kenny's money.
All my opinion.

CoolCat said re Bail:
"Why she picked Billy and GW4 is anyone's guess."
I will guess because those two or one of the two could be counted upon to clean up what evidence still existed, perhaps hidden on the farm. JMO
Remember JW could't be counted on to destroy his phone.
So maybe the other two were more dependable when it involved getting rid of evidence...JMO
*
Another guess re Bail Motions is that the bail motions were made simply to appease the attorney's incarcerated clients (and person funding it all) or to create more billable hours for the attorney involved or just simply to waste time on the ticking clock. JMO
*
The Glock purchase on the 'Highway.'
Im not convinced the purchase was made in Ohio.
I think it was made elsewhere.
The nearby states Ky, W.Va., Tennessee, all have similar lax laws for private sales. I would bet the W thought it very clever to go out of State for a purchase. JMO
*
Kenny and money, I am thinking the story about $$$ being strewn over the bed or K legs is very much exaggerated.
I think 'someone' riffled through K pockets to find K phone and or gun or keys.
The money was simply pocket money pulled out and cast aside. JMO

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Theory, Thoughts about bail motions, bail money, the glock purchase, Kenny's money.
All my opinion.

CoolCat said re Bail:
"Why she picked Billy and GW4 is anyone's guess."
I will guess because those two or one of the two could be counted upon to clean up what evidence still existed, perhaps hidden on the farm. JMO
Remember JW could't be counted on to destroy his phone.
So maybe the other two were more dependable when it involved getting rid of evidence...JMO
*
Another guess re Bail Motions is that the bail motions were made simply to appease the attorney's incarcerated clients (and person funding it all) or to create more billable hours for the attorney involved or just simply to waste time on the ticking clock. JMO
*
The Glock purchase on the 'Highway.'
Im not convinced the purchase was made in Ohio.
I think it was made elsewhere.
The nearby states Ky, W.Va., Tennessee, all have similar lax laws for private sales. I would bet the W thought it very clever to go out of State for a purchase. JMO
*
Kenny and money, I am thinking the story about $$$ being strewn over the bed or K legs is very much exaggerated.
I think 'someone' riffled through K pockets to find K phone and or gun or keys.
The money was simply pocket money pulled out and cast aside. JMO

Does any of you Sluthers think that Kenneth would trust one of the Wagners males in his camper close enough to shoot him in the eye( In The Middle Of The Night ) without a gun in hand and ready for action, A Woman Killed Kenneth, JMO

 

[Johnny B Bad]

 

[CIA Team Member]

I have a feeling we'll find out. As DeWine said, we'll be shaking our heads at what they did. The reasoning behind killing Kenneth Rhoden was probably just as crazy and dumb as the reasons for killing the rest of the victims.

As for any evidence that might be revealed at Jake Wagner's next hearing, it will probably surprise the same folks who thought George 4 would walk. Lack of information about incriminating evidence against these characters isn't an indication of lack of evidence. State is playing things very close to the vest and, as usual, when we find out the details, it will be damning.

I recall Kenny's ex wife stating she believed they killed him "because he would've killed" the killer(s).

 

[Ann99]

MOO

Ok, Im not good at quoting exactly, but what I get from this is:
Donald, stating words similar to "I walk up to foot of bed, looked up saw blood in his eyes...knew he was dead."
Pause
...something about ...'a little different on the money'.
"Seen money laying on the bed. Found that odd."

So what might Donalds words tell us about the weapon used?
Donalds words do not seem to emphasize a great amount of money.

 

[CIA Team Member]

Does any of you Sluthers think that Kenneth would trust one of the Wagners males in his camper close enough to shoot him in the eye( In The Middle Of The Night ) without a gun in hand and ready for action, A Woman Killed Kenneth, JMO

I recall this theory early on. Combined with someone wanting to perhaps borrow money from him and that was the premise for letting said person in.

 

[Betty P]

I think your right but it also involves alot of money and collateral (house, land, businesses) to put up a high bond, and I'm talking like a million dollar bond is probably what it would be. Where would they get the money and collateral to even put up a bond? Where on earth would they even stay for their house arrest?

I think you are right but I think it also involves logistics that these 2 cannot overcome.

Fred was clearly involved with Billy's Bond Motion because FWF's was specifically mentioned in his Bond Motion, that he would be caretaker there.

This leads me to believe she was behind both GW4's Bond Motion and Billy's. Financially fronting the money and getting them a place to live for their house arrest etc...is what I mean.

Fred could not be expected to pony up the money and shelter for all 4 of the Wagner's, it's too much.

Opinion only

She was either unrealistic about their prospects for getting out on bond or it was a fishing expedition, maybe focused on getting more evidence info out to the public. Attempting to sway potential jurors. It backfired by revealing the state has a lot more solid evidence against them, including audio recordings of them discussing very incriminating information.

JMO, I can't see how these tactics could build any public sympathy for them. As for getting evidence thrown out - they'll need a lot of luck and divine intervention. Ballistic evidence has been accepted in US courts as sound scientific evidence since the late 1800's.

The History of Firearm Identification by James Hamby - FirearmsID.com

 

[Betty P]

I recall this theory early on. Combined with someone wanting to perhaps borrow money from him and that was the premise for letting said person in.

I'm going with LE, prosecution statements in the news media and the preliminary AR's - that KR was killed at close range while asleep. It was stated they believed CR1 was the only victim who saw them coming and tried to defend himself.

Rhoden family massacre: Preliminary autopsy reports reviewed

 

[Ann99]

I recall Kenny's ex wife stating she believed they killed him "because he would've killed" the killer(s).

I believe this.
I wonder about the approx. time of death for K.
First or last?
It was said early on and no link to this so MOO.
Because K had no running water at his camper (pretty clear to see by photos) it was said he went to CR's early in the morning to shower before work or whatever.
Was it feared by W's that K would come by early and the W murder spree would be in progress, would not be over? (what's early?)
How early did K sometimes come over?
Really, we do not know the timing of the murders.
If you think about it, BJ was there pretty early in the morning.
We know nothing about anyone's daily schedule . W or R.
I think this, the exact timing of things on 4/22, would be something Prosecutor would need to make clear to jurors. Or as clear as LE can figure it out with all evidence available.

 

[CIA Team Member]

Does any of you Sluthers think that Kenneth would trust one of the Wagners males in his camper close enough to shoot him in the eye( In The Middle Of The Night ) without a gun in hand and ready for action, A Woman Killed Kenneth, JMO

Speculative scenario: AW had the babies with HER, could've said her car broke down in front of his trailer, she went there for his help. IMO
I still think the the others showed up on 4 wheelers, that being how they showed up on their trail cams. IIRC, some were heard during a possible time frame of that nights events.

 

[Antimony]

It strikes me as funny that DS would use the word "ODD".