Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #127

[steeltowngirl]

I don't think they have a suspect in mind. I think that verbiage like that comes straight out of the FBI profile. The FBI's Behavioral Analysis Unit was undoubtedly called in very early and probably determined that the perp was not someone on the fringes but rather someone with some standing in the community—not necessarily a community leader, but someone with a respectable job, a family, etc.

I tend to agree with you, but.. if I take Carter literally, he spoke in this interview as if he had specific reasons to believe BG was local:

Carter said he believes the killer lives in, works in or frequents the Delphi area, but he declined to elaborate on why he believes that.

"One day I'll be able to tell you. I can't wait for that day," Carter said. "We are doing everything within our power ... and when we run out of tips, we're going to start over again."

Witness in Delphi double murder likely afraid to come forward, investigator says - 6abc Philadelphia

 

[Jax49]

Per the FBI poster, the suspect is 5' 6" to 5' 10". Not sure where the article got 5' 6" to 5' 8". bbm

https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/seeking-info/liberty-german/@@download.pdf

The person depicted in the composite sketch is described as a White male between 5'6" and 5'10", weighing 180 to 220 pounds, with reddishbrown hair. His eye color is unknown. The suspect is believed to be between 18 and 40 years old but may appear younger.

 

[Spartygirl]

I'm tending to B), IMO.

Would Abby/Libby have known shortcuts, because they were local?
Would Abby/Libby have known shortcuts and he followed the girls, when they tried to escape?

Absolutely, IMO, the girls would have known shortcuts.
Abby and her mom/uncle lived right there near the bridge.
JMO

 

[minazoe]

I feel like what we need is a good advertising campaign.

create a good compelling social media piece with BG as our theme . and make it go viral. maybe then with a wider exposure, a renewed campaign, someone will cough him up. Someone knows him and will take one look and know exactly who is in that video.

it just needs more exposure..the pictures of BG need to be shown on daytime tv shows like Jerry, Maurry, Judge Judy, all of them should take a moment and show this murderers picture to their audiences.

our world, our tv shows, our advertisers , our sports venues , our stores and churches should all take a moment and instead of a commercial or a cooking segment..or whatever they should make compassion part of their brand and show this killer in hopes he can be recognized and removed from society.

take a moment for these two beautiful girls. mOO

 

[Charlot123]

its not a necessity that he has done it before to fantasize about it ... surely there are a zillion source where he can read or watch about violent acts and famous killers...he could be a fan of one of those killers ... and now was his time
why this location ? I keep thinking this is not random choice... and not just because its isolated ...but maybe it has some significance for him ...or because it would draw more attention

There is an ongoing fetish online, only we are unaware of it. Kids are into mutilated bodies - photo taken in the city of one European country. Some, probably, get off it. In old times people at least had to have some bodily contact to accidentally get aroused. Now it is all online. The sad truth it, we can be looking for similarities in the murders, but how do we know if these similarities, these signatures, are their own? Maybe they mimic what all these voyeurs saw online?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I tend to agree with you, but.. if I take Carter literally, he spoke in this interview as if he had specific reasons to believe BG was local:

Carter said he believes the killer lives in, works in or frequents the Delphi area, but he declined to elaborate on why he believes that.

"One day I'll be able to tell you. I can't wait for that day," Carter said. "We are doing everything within our power ... and when we run out of tips, we're going to start over again."

Witness in Delphi double murder likely afraid to come forward, investigator says - 6abc Philadelphia

At this point I want to ask:
Who has more power / influence over the disclosure of investigation results and a perpetrator identification: FBI or ISP?
Is the FBI able to suppress/hinder a disclosure of investigation results due to instructions "from above"?
Excuse me for the amateurism in wording/explaining.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Throughout all this time LE has consistently stated they believe the suspect was wearing a hoodie. Every hoodie I’ve ever seen has a tie to tighten the hood part and on some, the strings are white even if the hoodie is a dark colour. So that’s the basis of my speculation, although I appreciate it bottoms out on the scale of creative thinking.

It’s just that I can’t imagine a potential killer walking a public trail system with objects that would surely attract attention, sticking out from the top of his jacket.

BBM

“FBI description: The FBI said the suspected killer is a white man who weighs between 180 and 200 pounds. He stands between 5 feet, 6 inches tall and 5 feet, 8 inches tall, and was wearing blue jeans, a blue jacket or coat and a hoodie.
Delphi killings: What we know about killings of Abby and Libby

I understand, what you think about the white thing. BUT if it were hoodie strings, they would be mostly out of cotton and wouldn't be stiff and smooth. The strings would be "connected" to the coat/windbreaker due to the nature of the surface: when the windbreaker is shifting a little bit, the white string would move a little bit also. The white thingy on BG doesn't move; it stays the way it is and only the windbreaker is shifting past it, when BG changes his upperbody position a bit.
I've studied the video long ago. Maybe, I'm seeing it not quite right, Idk.

 

[Charlot123]

I'm not sure how they determined his height, but 5'6" is pretty short for a Caucasian man. I can't help but wonder whether the height estimate is off based on the way BG is slouching.

“Caucasian” is a broad term. A Norwegian is a Caucasian, so is a Turk. Lastly, the man can be an ethnic mix between someone from Europe and, say, the Middle East. All that we heard was that the name was “white”, it says nothing about his ethnicity.

 

[sandy_80]

“Caucasian” is a broad term. A Norwegian is a Caucasian, so is a Turk. Lastly, the man can be an ethnic mix between someone from Europe and, say, the Middle East. All that we heard was that the name was “white”, it says nothing about his ethnicity.

that is totally true...i cant believe how many ppl get this wrong ...this stereotyping of looks and race
for ex ...I in appearance look a certain race but in truth I am a different ethnicity all together... no one would be able to know just by looking at me

 

[stattlich1]

Lots of tips, no arrest in 2017 double homicide | Carroll County Comet

Thanks for the article.

I find it fascinating that LE themselves remain unsure if there was one or more perps involved.

But what I'd really like to hear is any opinions on the 'suggestive evidence' of fingerprints found at the scene.

Would it be correct to assume if LE has fingerprints, and those prints 'suggest' a possible suspect, or suspects, then LE must also have that/those suspects fingerprints in their possession?

Also, what kind of evidence would have been found at the scene that would lead LE to be confident the girls were killed where they were found?

Lastly, I find the comments about the polygraphs to be interesting.

 

[TedMac]

Lots of tips, no arrest in 2017 double homicide | Carroll County Comet

Thanks for the article.

I find it fascinating that LE themselves remain unsure if there was one or more perps involved.

But what I'd really like to hear is any opinions on the 'suggestive evidence' of fingerprints found at the scene.

Would it be correct to assume if LE has fingerprints, and those prints 'suggest' a possible suspect, or suspects, then LE must also have that/those suspects fingerprints in their possession?

Also, what kind of evidence would have been found at the scene that would lead LE to be confident the girls were killed where they were found?

Lastly, I find the comments about the polygraphs to be interesting.

BBM...Probably blood found at the scene and "disturbed" ground indicating a struggle had taken place. Apparently Libby put up a fight before being killed. I'm sure LE also considered Libby's size. She was a big girl and moving her would have been quite a task for two men and almost impossible for one man. It would have required some type of vehicle and there has been no evidence of any vehicle being on the trail.

 

[MistyWaters]

I understand, what you think about the white thing. BUT if it were hoodie strings, they would be mostly out of cotton and wouldn't be stiff and smooth. The strings would be "connected" to the coat/windbreaker due to the nature of the surface: when the windbreaker is shifting a little bit, the white string would move a little bit also. The white thingy on BG doesn't move; it stays the way it is and only the windbreaker is shifting past it, when BG changes his upperbody position a bit.
I've studied the video long ago. Maybe, I'm seeing it not quite right, Idk.

Yeah it’s impossible to know for sure given the overall quality of the photo. Probably not everyone agrees he’s wearing a hoodie either. But I do think as LE have the original photo/video and have access to much higher-resolution tools than the average person, if they believed there was anything more in that photo that led to anyone ID’ing the suspect, they’d say so. JMO

 

[Yemelyan]

Also, what kind of evidence would have been found at the scene that would lead LE to be confident the girls were killed where they were found?

.

Snipped to address just this last of the question.

If blood loss sufficient to cause death occurred, authorities will definitely know whether that wound started in the spot where the victim is lying or if the victim was moved at some point.

I also think that, depending on the weapon used, whether or not it is still located at the crime scene will tell a lot (if it's a large rock for example that has been used to inflict blunt force trauma). Also if bindings or restraints were used and how they were applied. Were victims tied to each other? To trees? If their clothes were located near them or far from them could play a role in determining this. Sometimes it's probably not a single thing but the totality of the crime scene features.

And, of course, as @TedMac wisely noted, even for smaller victims there would likely be drag marks and other disturbances at the scene that showed a body had been transported there in some way.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Leazenby said, from the evidence found in the area, the victims were killed on the same property on which their bodies were found.

bbm
First time, that I noticed it:
So it can be, the girls weren't killed at the same place but only on the same property, on which their bodies were found. The property is large, afaik.

Well, I know, that there was no police tape, we have seen at other places ......

 

[MistyWaters]

bbm
First time, that I noticed it:
So it can be, the girls weren't killed at the same place but only on the same property, on which their bodies were found. The property is large, afaik.

Well, I know, that there was no police tape, we have seen at other places ......

It’s likely this response was to the question that’s often speculated about - were the girls taken somewhere else and then their bodies moved back? IMO it’d merely be a huge leap of additional speculation to assume he’s suggesting the girls were killed somewhere else on “the property” and then the bodies were moved to the location they were found.

Because that’s not what he said.

According to land maps that’ve been posted here earlier, I would think an actual location of death as far as LE is concerned refers to the legal address of the rural property. RL’s land holdings totalling 40 acres consist of several small parcels of land, one of which the bodies of the girls were found on.

 

[pearl]

At this point I want to ask:
Who has more power / influence over the disclosure of investigation results and a perpetrator identification: FBI or ISP?
Is the FBI able to suppress/hinder a disclosure of investigation results due to instructions "from above"?
Excuse me for the amateurism in wording/explaining.

I tried to reply a few minutes ago but somehow lost it. It may still show up. LE with jurisdiction over where the crime occurred is the lead investigators. In this case it is the county level LE. Ofcourse, resources at the county level are slim. They called in ISP. Local LE would have to allow FBI in also. This is the way it works in rural areas in many states.

 

[JnRyan]

Lots of tips, no arrest in 2017 double homicide | Carroll County Comet

This news story is 6 months old but it provides a good overview of where LE is now at regarding this case. It is based on an interview with Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby. the main points as I see them are:

• mistakes were made during the early phases of the investigation
• the two suspect sketches, which differed considerably from each other, were supplied by two different people near the scene on Monday, Feb. 13. Both images are of different persons of interest.
• Libby took a video on her cell phone of someone walking on the bridge which is believed to be the perpetrator, or one of the perpetrators, of the crimes.
• Leazenby advised there is DNA from the crime scene but refused to divulge from where it originated.
• Leasenby said there is “suggestive” evidence of fingerprints found at the crime scene.
• Leazenby said, from the evidence found in the area, the victims were killed on the same property on which their bodies were found.
• Leazenby stated the investigation is not “stalled.” And it has not been determined if there was one or more perpetrators.
• Leazenby speculated that a perpetrator has probably been interviewed by investigators about the crime, but was not immediately recognized as a offender
• Leazenby said he believes a local, or locals, committed the crimes. Leazenby said whoever did this “knew the lay of the land.”
• Leazenby said when an arrest is made, community members will likely be shocked at the identity of those arrested. The perpetrator will likely be someone who is fairly well-known in the community.

I had to read it again to notice the contradiction. He speculated the person has probably been interviewed and the right question may have not been asked. Then at the very end of the article he states that if a tipster does not hear back the tipster can conclude that their information was not true.

I know of one case here in VA, the Short family murders (Mary, Michael and Jennifer) where a person called in a tip about a suspicious person in the area that night. They never heard back from LE. Years later they call back and find out that LE either had no record of the tip, they didn't follow up or didn't believe it was important at the time. The second time she called back she was able to help with a sketch.

Of course, with the massive volume of tips here it could easily get lost in a huge haystack. LE has stated they use the FBI's Pyramid system for tips, hinting that all of the tips have been documented. I wonder how much attention was given to each tip. In the beginning two months the task force consisted of 100-200 LE from federal, state and LE on loan from surrounding jurisdictions. What are the chances that there was a miscommunication between investigators. For example, an erroneous assumption that maybe one team followed up and that was not true. Or in a mix up between cases the interview results from one interview are entered in the wrong tip file. Pyramid may be the world's greatest tip database, but humans still have to enter the data and humans make mistakes. As a government auditor I can't count the number of times I was told, "That won't happen, the software is the best and we have safeguards." and then go into the final meeting with evidence that it not only happened, but happened multiple times.

 

[swedeheart]

Just listening to the "Down the Hill" podcast discussion (at Crime Con:House Arrest), and Susan Hendricks (HLN) just said that when she went to the Leazenby's office, there was a sign that said, "Be careful what you say out loud, the press are listening." Isn't that a bit weird?

Off topic: anyone else from Websleuths at Crime Con?

 

[Trebor5591]

Also, what kind of evidence would have been found at the scene that would lead LE to be confident the girls were killed where they were found?

Torn clothing on the ground, bloodstains, signs of a struggle (kicked up dirt and leaves), etc., dirt under their fingernails, etc. would provide evidence that the girls were killed at the location where they were found.

 

[ElleA219]

In discussing the car in the CPS lot, Gray points out that a building across the road (self storage business?) had a security camera that might have picked up the vehicle. However, he notes it might have been too far away to capture enough detail. I had wondered about earlier, but that is the first time I've heard anyone speculate about what that camera might have captured.

I’m new to this forum and the case but now obsessed with these sweet girls finding justice. Can you all direct me to the interview or articles you are speaking of regarding any updated information please! Thank you in advance! These trails seem so reclusive they should have camera’s up. Someone has got to know who this guy is. He cannot get away with this.