Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #127

[MistyWaters]

Just listening to the "Down the Hill" podcast discussion (at Crime Con:House Arrest), and Susan Hendricks (HLN) just said that when she went to the Leazenby's office, there was a sign that said, "Be careful what you say out loud, the press are listening." Isn't that a bit weird?

Off topic: anyone else from Websleuths at Crime Con?

I’d expect it’s quite reasonable for LE to expect to control the information flow. Groundless speculation, rumour or gossip that reaches the media can discourage a good tip from coming in especially if it’s contrary to the actual facts of the case. For much the same reason the reputation of innocent people and their families can be needlessly harmed, or a suspect under investigation can be tipped off.

Leazenby said much the same in the April/20 interview.

“If people have not heard information from an investigator or released by police, they can assume the information is not true,” Leazenby concluded...”
Lots of tips, no arrest in 2017 double homicide | Carroll County Comet

 

[JnRyan]

I’m new to this forum and the case but now obsessed with these sweet girls finding justice. Can you all direct me to the interview or articles you are speaking of regarding any updated information please! Thank you in advance! These trails seem so reclusive they should have camera’s up. Someone has got to know who this guy is. He cannot get away with this.

There are numerous articles in the Media thread.
IN - Abigail Williams & Liberty German, Delphi, Media, Maps, Timelines NO DISCUSSION

There are a few podcasts that cover this, but two really stand out for me and those are "Scene of Crime" and HLN's "Down the Hill".

 

[MistyWaters]

Torn clothing on the ground, bloodstains, signs of a struggle (kicked up dirt and leaves), etc., dirt under their fingernails, etc. would provide evidence that the girls were killed at the location where they were found.

Including what naturally occurs to a body after death takes place, which anyone can google if they’re interested in knowing more.

 

[ElleA219]

There are numerous articles in the Media thread.
IN - Abigail Williams & Liberty German, Delphi, Media, Maps, Timelines NO DISCUSSION

There are a few podcasts that cover this, but two really stand out for me and those are "Scene of Crime" and HLN's "Down the Hill".

Thank you! One thing I just noticed and not sure if it is on here or not, but watching IE and seeing their comments about his verbiage to the girls. For example. I address my niece and nephew with ‘guys’ all the time. I don’t have children so I relate to them more as an adult friend than authoritative if that makes sense. Like I bet this guy has kids indirectly in his life and I BET (gut instinct telling me this) he has an older sister who has children and I bet they are girls. For some reason I feel like this guy has roots in this town and family thats why no one even thinks it could be him. Like ‘oh so and so could not have done it I knew his grandparents etc.’ I’m not a northerner but my Dad was from a small southern town and I know that is many times a small town mentality. My Dad’s Dad was the sheriff of this town and later my Dad a detective but still. Just a thought in case no one has brought this point up. I posted for you because I’m still trying to figure this forum out and figured you may know where to post any new info. Thanks so much!

 

[Rosegold68]

you used to be able to get onto the bridge and on the road nearby on google street view.....no longer got that option which i find odd

 

[Ravenmoon]

I understand, what you think about the white thing. BUT if it were hoodie strings, they would be mostly out of cotton and wouldn't be stiff and smooth. The strings would be "connected" to the coat/windbreaker due to the nature of the surface: when the windbreaker is shifting a little bit, the white string would move a little bit also. The white thingy on BG doesn't move; it stays the way it is and only the windbreaker is shifting past it, when BG changes his upperbody position a bit.
I've studied the video long ago. Maybe, I'm seeing it not quite right, Idk.

I have really tried to make out the things in the video, just like everyone else.
It is beyond frustrating.
There is SO little that actually be taken from it.
He has blue pants, a blue jacket and what appears to be a brown hoodie.

The white stringy looking thingies?
Best guess...zip ties.
BUT.. a guess. No way to know .

JMO MOO AMOO

 

[Ravenmoon]

Lots of tips, no arrest in 2017 double homicide | Carroll County Comet

Thanks for the article.

I find it fascinating that LE themselves remain unsure if there was one or more perps involved.

But what I'd really like to hear is any opinions on the 'suggestive evidence' of fingerprints found at the scene.

Would it be correct to assume if LE has fingerprints, and those prints 'suggest' a possible suspect, or suspects, then LE must also have that/those suspects fingerprints in their possession?

Also, what kind of evidence would have been found at the scene that would lead LE to be confident the girls were killed where they were found?

Lastly, I find the comments about the polygraphs to be interesting.

IMHO
Regarding why LE has confidence in the origin of the murders?
Footprints.
Lack of ability to drive to where the girls were found.
No drag marks (sorry, i hate the thought..)
Proximity of the victims to other crime scene material(possible weapons, bindings, strange items , clothing, condition of the bodies , murder method)
This is just a short list of my thoughts.

AMOO JMO MOO

 

[Diddian]

I’m new to this forum and the case but now obsessed with these sweet girls finding justice. Can you all direct me to the interview or articles you are speaking of regarding any updated information please! Thank you in advance! These trails seem so reclusive they should have camera’s up. Someone has got to know who this guy is. He cannot get away with this.

Gray talks about the cameras that were pointed to where the car was parked at the abandoned Child Services building when he is speaking with Kelsi (she calls in at about 52:00) in the video linked to in this post:

Kelsi called in to the live this evening, for anyone interested. She's on air now:

ETA: I see that others have also answered you and provided links to broader sources of information, so if I misunderstood what you were asking for, I apologize!

 

[girlfriday]

My thoughts, back on the aspect of the kayak, is that one thing that threw off investigators is that they were keyed in in finding a vehicle when they should have been seeing who all owns a kayak. Think about it. A kayak is quiet and can be extra stealthy on the water if it has a camouflage motif. How many people would be on the river, right there on the bank, as opposed to people on land (ie potential witnesses). He could have paddled pretty far down the river...we don't know. It just makes sense to me. If we see this guy as a hunter, then I propose that he could have easily been a fisherman too. So he may have known the river. I live in Texas and most all of the hunters I know are also fishermen. It goes hand in hand.
I did a little research on weight of an open-top kayak, and it typically weighs between 35-65 pounds. Pretty easy to handle by one person. Throw it in the bed of a truck and be gone.
IMO, MOO

Here is something that might be of interest to you:
In a very recent interview, MP talks about a canoe search

Time code 17:39

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Upon review, the above link to the youtube video is being allowed on a one-time basis because it is an interview with Mike and Betty and the hosts are respectful in how they approach their interviews.

 

[Falling Down]

I have really tried to make out the things in the video, just like everyone else.
It is beyond frustrating.
There is SO little that actually be taken from it.
He has blue pants, a blue jacket and what appears to be a brown hoodie.

The white stringy looking thingies?
Best guess...zip ties.
BUT.. a guess. No way to know .

JMO MOO AMOO

i recently made a purchase here in Kokomo at a flea market, where it dawned on me that BG could have bought at least that outer shell jacket there or at another flea market or thrift store here in central IN.

My hunch from early on about his appearance is he was disguised to some degree, and he does not wear that type of jacket, normally. Judging by what I've seen since I moved here to central IN recently, what he was wearing is very typical of what a lot of people here wear when the weather turns colder. Except his outfit is more bland than typical for the area, it's plain, it's a disguise.

Whether he actually wore that outer coat the entire time he was there is anyone's guess, I'd imagine LE know for sure.

JMO

 

[ElleA219]

Gray talks about the cameras that were pointed to where the car was parked at the abandoned Child Services building when he is speaking with Kelsi (she calls in at about 52:00) in the video linked to in this post:



ETA: I see that others have also answered you and provided links to broader sources of information, so if I misunderstood what you were asking for, I apologize!

Omg no apologies needed! I am new to the case and the forum so I appreciate all info! Thank you!

 

[ElleA219]

IMHO
Regarding why LE has confidence in the origin of the murders?
Footprints.
Lack of ability to drive to where the girls were found.
No drag marks (sorry, i hate the thought..)
Proximity of the victims to other crime scene material(possible weapons, bindings, strange items , clothing, condition of the bodies , murder method)
This is just a short list of my thoughts.

AMOO JMO MOO

I was just thinking footprints. Being on a river bed I would def think prints of sorts would be found.

 

[Imvp2]

i recently made a purchase here in Kokomo at a flea market, where it dawned on me that BG could have bought at least that outer shell jacket there or at another flea market or thrift store here in central IN.

My hunch from early on about his appearance is he was disguised to some degree, and he does not wear that type of jacket, normally. Judging by what I've seen since I moved here to central IN recently, what he was wearing is very typical of what a lot of people here wear when the weather turns colder. Except his outfit is more bland than typical for the area, it's plain, it's a disguise.

Whether he actually wore that outer coat the entire time he was there is anyone's guess, I'd imagine LE know for sure.

JMO

I'm thinking the blue jacket has been his jacket for some time. He may have bought it at a flea market initially, but I see a well worn gun imprint on the right pocket. MOO

 

[Yemelyan]

i recently made a purchase here in Kokomo at a flea market, where it dawned on me that BG could have bought at least that outer shell jacket there or at another flea market or thrift store here in central IN.

My hunch from early on about his appearance is he was disguised to some degree, and he does not wear that type of jacket, normally. Judging by what I've seen since I moved here to central IN recently, what he was wearing is very typical of what a lot of people here wear when the weather turns colder. Except his outfit is more bland than typical for the area, it's plain, it's a disguise.

Whether he actually wore that outer coat the entire time he was there is anyone's guess, I'd imagine LE know for sure.

JMO

As to the part I bolded, it's a good observation and I have come to agree with this over time. There's more than one person who should be able to look, especially at the video, and say, "that looks like my (family member, neighbor, coworker)....".

I think you could make a case that if he is local to that general part of Indiana, it's unlikely that the pictures of him on the bridge have not been seen, at least in passing, by the people who logically should be able to do that. So either those people do not want to say anything (a possibility), OR perhaps he doesn't look in this video as he normally appears.

I think if something about his appearance in the pictures/video is disguising him (whether he deliberately tried to change his appearance or it's just an artifact of how far away the images of him were and how they were filmed), this is going to be very difficult for the people who COULD identify him to reconcile, simply because he doesn't appear outlandishly disguised in the video. He appears to be "normally" dressed for that region.

In a way it fools the brain because he's dressed so typically you're not thinking "but how I usually see this person might not look like this, since a lot of people I see look just like this."

 

[Ekliptika]

Including what naturally occurs to a body after death takes place, which anyone can google if they’re interested in knowing more.

When someone is found dead you Will be able to establish during the autopsy whether that person has been moved since death occured or died at the place where they were found.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

i recently made a purchase here in Kokomo at a flea market, where it dawned on me that BG could have bought at least that outer shell jacket there or at another flea market or thrift store here in central IN.

My hunch from early on about his appearance is he was disguised to some degree, and he does not wear that type of jacket, normally. Judging by what I've seen since I moved here to central IN recently, what he was wearing is very typical of what a lot of people here wear when the weather turns colder. Except his outfit is more bland than typical for the area, it's plain, it's a disguise.

Whether he actually wore that outer coat the entire time he was there is anyone's guess, I'd imagine LE know for sure.

JMO

I imagine, underneath the disguise of an average Indiana man he was wearing more tight clothing, maybe a sporty outfit, maybe all black perhaps. Nobody would recognize him as the same man, possibly not even his close friends. IMO

 

[sandy_80]

I tried to reply a few minutes ago but somehow lost it. It may still show up. LE with jurisdiction over where the crime occurred is the lead investigators. In this case it is the county level LE. Ofcourse, resources at the county level are slim. They called in ISP. Local LE would have to allow FBI in also. This is the way it works in rural areas in many states.

I am one of those who think that the local le are pulling all the strings ...
the rest might have looked at it but that would be it...
I have seen arguments about big murder cases in small towns where the locals have no experience...that there need to be a law for stuff like that where the cases are handed over to state le

 

[minazoe]

you have to have a reason to hold someone. you have to have an order to collect DNA. they should get an order and swab everyone in town.

find the relative if there is one.

it is my understanding that many SK's follow and learn from other notorious SK's which means he may never pick a place he is connected to to do a killing, or like many others, he plays the county game, or state line game, in an effort to stymy LE from connecting his crimes.

obviously something about the crime scene says this is a local person. how else would they be able to ascertain this?

for me , a possible communication may have happened. the thing for me though is that SK's are liars and may say
just about anything..like when Shannan Gilbert's killer called her sister and told her Shannen was in a *advertiser censored* house in
Brooklyn ( or something)..

what is it about the crime scene would tell them this is a local resident committing these crimes?

I wish we knew because Delphi is a small town and that is very myopic in focus.

mOO

 

[JenniD]

i recently made a purchase here in Kokomo at a flea market, where it dawned on me that BG could have bought at least that outer shell jacket there or at another flea market or thrift store here in central IN.

My hunch from early on about his appearance is he was disguised to some degree, and he does not wear that type of jacket, normally. Judging by what I've seen since I moved here to central IN recently, what he was wearing is very typical of what a lot of people here wear when the weather turns colder. Except his outfit is more bland than typical for the area, it's plain, it's a disguise.

Whether he actually wore that outer coat the entire time he was there is anyone's guess, I'd imagine LE know for sure.

JMO

I am still of the opinion that this jacket is turned inside out. Look at the quilted shoulders and the pockets. The color is different than the rest of the jacket. I still believe the buttons, snaps or loops are not closed in correct manner. JMOO
It would be interesting to see a local high school or local college letterman’s jacket turned inside out to see the comparison