GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam Co, 2 May 2014 - #13

It was previously posted that a forensic accountant (or the like) was reviewing this case. However, I haven't read another thing about it since. What happened with that??

From all the reading I've done on these threads, it seems the majority of the posts (including mine) seem to question at least some (if not all) of the conclusions stated by SS.
 
Nov 10 2020 rbbm.
Briefs: 2014 Lake Oconee unresolved double murder featured on HLN; CNN ratings; Kevin Hart’s next Netflix special prepped in Atlanta
''The episode noted that this murder looked personal, so family members were suspects, but there were no viable links or motives regarding any of the children. There appeared to be no sour business associates from Russell’s past or clear financial irregularities. Forensic evidence did not clarify anything.

A determined Putnam County Sheriff Howard Sills continues to work the case. He believes whoever killed them did it on purpose. He said he needs someone who knows something to call him for this case to break. “I think about this case every day,” he said during the episode. “It’s a personal challenge.”

The current reward leading to the arrest of the perpetrator or perpetrators is $55,300.''
 
Nov 10 2020 rbbm.
Briefs: 2014 Lake Oconee unresolved double murder featured on HLN; CNN ratings; Kevin Hart’s next Netflix special prepped in Atlanta
''The episode noted that this murder looked personal, so family members were suspects, but there were no viable links or motives regarding any of the children. There appeared to be no sour business associates from Russell’s past or clear financial irregularities. Forensic evidence did not clarify anything.

A determined Putnam County Sheriff Howard Sills continues to work the case. He believes whoever killed them did it on purpose. He said he needs someone who knows something to call him for this case to break. “I think about this case every day,” he said during the episode. “It’s a personal challenge.”

The current reward leading to the arrest of the perpetrator or perpetrators is $55,300.''
I'd like to know WHO the forensic acct. did the investigative work on.

I'd be interested in knowing who's financials statements were investigated. I don't believe they would find anything in the elders D's financial statements (personal and business). They need to look elsewhere.
 
I'd like to know WHO the forensic acct. did the investigative work on.

I'd be interested in knowing who's financials statements were investigated. I don't believe they would find anything in the elders D's financial statements (personal and business). They need to look elsewhere.
And for anyone other than the deceased, they would've needed either the express permission of the owner of said financials and/or a search warrant/ITO.. neither of which I would imagine they would have received. imo.
 
I think they moved on too quickly from the Dermond's family members. It is extremely disturbing to think that a (or more than one) family member could do this to their parents, but it does happen. Look at the Menendez boys. That was a very brutal and disturbing crime.

Let's assume this crime was staged to look like a particular type of crime. What would it be? I think most people would think "cult-like" because of the beheading. Within two weeks of the murders, one family says he believes it was the act of a cult. He goes on to say he does not believe it is random. How does he know? His parents were just massacred and what does he know about murder investigations.

Robbery? No. Nothing was stolen even though there were many valuables easily available. Why no robbery. Is it was orchestrated by a family member, (1) those belongings are valuable to the him/her, and (2) items like expensive watches, etc. could lead back to the killers (probably hired).

Who benefits? The heirs.

A revenge killing? No. The killings appear to intentionally happen outside of the home. Why? The home is a valuable asset to an heir. Random killers, revenge killers, professional killers do not care about keeping the house clean and valuable.

The beheading? To infer the "cult-killing" theory. But in reality, cult-style killings are usually not well thought out. They typically are sloppy and over the top with some type of symbolism related to religious or other cult beliefs. It might also explain why he was killed before the beheading. Maybe the instructions were to make sure he is dead before you do that. I do not think the beheading is a symbol of more anger towards the male victim than the female victim. I think it is totally related to the staged murder scene. Would hiding the female body in the bottom of the lake delay probating the estate? I do not think the intention was to hide Mom's body for any great length of time. Anyone who planned this very detailed crime would have done sufficient research to know that the body would eventually come apart in the water and be discovered. I think the manner of disposition of Mom's body was just another tactic to make the scene even more bizarre, but also to distract law enforcement from the home crime scene while they search for what may be a living hostage.

Keep in mind the person most likely to pass a polygraph is a true psychopath. Not only do they lack any empathy for the victims, they have often convinced themselves that their crimes are justified for some bizarre reason. A true psychopath might just decide he is tired of waiting for the money and that the victims have lived a long life and it is time and, for some reason, that is okay.

They need to look further. Particularly, the finances of some of the family members. For one, the lack of a reward from the family is a little disturbing to me. If they don't have the personal funds, they could have filed a request for the estate to post a reward. While you never want to just throw tons of money out there because it often triggers so many false tips that the investigators are overwhelmed, $55,000 doesn't seem sufficient in this case. Not certain, but I believe most (or all) of that reward came from the community.

There needs to be a thorough investigation into the finances and businesses of the family members. It could be that a family member wanted to do as well as the Dermonds, but struggles. That person would probably have filings for several businesses and, although they might look successful, there will be signs that the businesses never come close to what the victims were able to accomplish. And, at this point in their life, the victims may have said no to requests for financial assistance.

The truth is, the prosecutor does not have to prove motive and that should not be the focus of the case. This crime was planned out very thoroughly. The location of the home and access to the home by boat is not something random. It just didn't happen that way. There is no evidence this was a spur-of-the-moment robbery. In fact, the evidence almost rules that out. There were tools/weapons brought to the scene(s) specific to the acts that took place. The victim's head was not severed with a kitchen knife. The cut was clean. The cinder blocks and the bag they were in were not just something the killers stumbled upon. This was not a botched or abandoned attempt at extortion. Killers capable of these brutal murders are not going to develop a conscious mid-act.

One killer or two? I think common sense tells us two, but that truly is just an assumption. One person, particularly someone who would be able to separate the victims because the victims felt comfortable with the killer, could have done this. Nothing says that both victims were in the garage at the same time. If one victim can be lured to the garage and then the other convinced to take a boat ride, one person could commit this crime.

I can't really explain why Dad is shot, but Mom is hit with a hammer. My only thought it was a attempt to leave no evidence on Mom's body, or it was a younger relative who somehow thought the hammer was less violent to her. There may not be a rational explanation for that as this whole thing is irrational.

While it isn't major in the scope of things, I would like to know if the female victim still had her wedding ring on. Such care was taken to preserve everything of value, I just wonder about her ring.
I am in agreement as well. What kind of financial state were some family members in? Would they hire someone to kill to get at the estate out of desperation? Nothing else makes sense...this was not explored in any way on the program.
 
So I guess this new technology discussion earlier in the year produced nothing helpful?

New technology to be used in unsolved murder case

And, SS's quote below... Should we assume this valuable evidence is DNA?

“The towels belonged to the Dermonds and, yes, there was other evidence found at the scene, but I can’t go into any of that evidence,” Sills said. “I’ll just say that there was valuable evidence that we have yet to match up to anything.”
 
So I guess this new technology discussion earlier in the year produced nothing helpful?

New technology to be used in unsolved murder case

And, SS's quote below... Should we assume this valuable evidence is DNA?

“The towels belonged to the Dermonds and, yes, there was other evidence found at the scene, but I can’t go into any of that evidence,” Sills said. “I’ll just say that there was valuable evidence that we have yet to match up to anything.”

Another quote from your link.
“We looked back over some of the crime scene photographs and talked about a lot of things during our meeting,” Sills said. “A lot of what we talked about concerning technology was about what is available today that wasn't available primarily then.”

If we assume the DNA is the evidence, that would mean that they were able to separate some blood samples.

What new technology has come about over the last six years? The main advancement that I know of is being able to link DNA to family lines through genealogy. Are there others?
 
Another quote from your link.
“We looked back over some of the crime scene photographs and talked about a lot of things during our meeting,” Sills said. “A lot of what we talked about concerning technology was about what is available today that wasn't available primarily then.”

If we assume the DNA is the evidence, that would mean that they were able to separate some blood samples.

What new technology has come about over the last six years? The main advancement that I know of is being able to link DNA to family lines through genealogy. Are there others?
I have a feeling this was pulled off by professionals. They won't be found in any data base....I doubt any "real" clues
were left behind.
 
Something I found interesting (to me) as I was sleuthing quite awhile ago. The two male family members had taken over RD's restaurant holdings, I believe long before RD was dead. I'm not sure what exactly they did with that. (???)

They did however, buy into a different franchise, two years prior to the murders - October 30, 2012.

At the time, the agreement was reported in the news to have been a multi-location agreement whereby the brothers agreed to open up two additional franchise locations, on top of the one in 2012, within three years.

So, .... doing the math.... late 2012 is the first franchise.. three years later is late 2015... the clock was ticking. It takes awhile to source a good location, do the due diligence, possibly even build it from new.. and they needed to produce TWO more of them in that time span.

Were there enough resources to adhere to the agreement of two more franchises by the timelines of the agreement, and if not, what would happen then? Nobody knows, except those privy to the details. I would think there would be some kind of substantial financial penalty if the 'multi' part of the agreement failed to be reached, which may reach back into the monetary arrangement made on the first location, ie 3-deal for x-amount, but if you renege on the remaining two, you'll owe THIS much on the 'single' location. It isn't just the franchise fees, it's a huge amount of money that gets laid out to open a food establishment - equipment, permits, inspections, training, staffing. One needs a good heft of cash to make it through until hopeful profitability is established. These are the types of details that I hope SS has followed up on!

Fast forward... the second location opened September 12, 2016. It seems just short of four years after the first one. Although the 3-year timeline was breached (and especially considering there were to have been TWO more within that 3-year timeline), perhaps there was an amenable resolution, if the second was in the works by the 3 year deadline?

For interest, the third location just opened in 2020.
 
Another quote from your link.
“We looked back over some of the crime scene photographs and talked about a lot of things during our meeting,” Sills said. “A lot of what we talked about concerning technology was about what is available today that wasn't available primarily then.”

If we assume the DNA is the evidence, that would mean that they were able to separate some blood samples.

What new technology has come about over the last six years? The main advancement that I know of is being able to link DNA to family lines through genealogy. Are there others?
DNA has been around for I think 20 plus years now, and as far as I know.. the familial thing is the 'new' thing.. so if they do have something, they may be able to link it that way.. but what do they do if it's the same familial link as the victims.. how would they know whether it came from victim or murderer?
 
DNA has been around for I think 20 plus years now, and as far as I know.. the familial thing is the 'new' thing.. so if they do have something, they may be able to link it that way.. but what do they do if it's the same familial link as the victims.. how would they know whether it came from victim or murderer?

Great question! Honestly, you should post this on the Othram thread!

Othram - General Discussion
 
DNA has been around for I think 20 plus years now, and as far as I know.. the familial thing is the 'new' thing.. so if they do have something, they may be able to link it that way.. but what do they do if it's the same familial link as the victims.. how would they know whether it came from victim or murderer?
This may sound too simple but since they have DNA from both sources, they would compare the unknown familial DNA against the known victims' (in this case the elder Ds) and they wouldn't match up. (Even though familial).
 
This may sound too simple but since they have DNA from both sources, they would compare the unknown familial DNA against the known victims' (in this case the elder Ds) and they wouldn't match up. (Even though familial).

Your answer sounds correct to me, Razz. What about (same sex) sibling DNA? I mean, is it fairly easy to determine which DNA is which (assuming they are not twins, of course).
 
And, as I posted previously... I was hoping M-Vac technology might be utilized to extract DNA or other evidence from various sources - particularly Mrs. D's wet clothing.
Thanks for the reminder, meant to post this..

M-Vac Systems
Surface DNA Collection: Increase Surface DNA Collection Through Wet-Vacuum Sampling | M-Vac Systems, Inc
''We all know that even the best DNA processing equipment cannot amplify DNA that is not recovered in the sampling or collection process. The M-Vac® helps by simply collecting more DNA.

What if traditional collection methods have already been used on an item? The M-Vac® is a valuable tool in those scenarios and can often result in conclusive profiles even after traditional methods have been used. It gives cases a second chance.

For example, in an independent verification, after swabbing a saliva stain on cotton fabric, the M-Vac® was still able to collect 22X more saliva DNA. This shows that not only does the swab leave a significant amount of DNA material behind, but also that the M-Vac® System is more capable of collecting DNA material from porous surfaces.

The M-Vac® System is also known as a wet-vacuum sampling device, a vacuum-assisted instrument, a forensics vacuum, a DNA recovery system and other descriptive terms in literature and news articles. The M-Vac® System is also effective in sampling meat or produce for pathogens, checking environments for bacterial contamination and assuring the absence of biohazards in biodefense.''

https://www.washingtonpost.com/crim...s-is-helping-police-solve-tough-murder-cases/

Police in Draper, Utah, use the M-Vac machine in 2014 to search for DNA evidence in the 2012 slaying of 15-year-old Anne Kasprzak. (M-Vac Systems Inc.)

''As Jenny Carrieri pressed for progress in the homicide of her twin sister, most recently posting billboards in Baltimore seeking clues, she learned of the M-Vac: a wet-vacuum machine that can extract DNA from rough or porous surfaces and lead investigators to previously unknown suspects. The M-Vac has identified killers and other suspects in crimes across the country, helped free one man who had been wrongly imprisoned for 20 years for murder, and is being used in Florida to find DNA evidence on boats authorities think were used in human trafficking.''
 
This may sound too simple but since they have DNA from both sources, they would compare the unknown familial DNA against the known victims' (in this case the elder Ds) and they wouldn't match up. (Even though familial).
Yes true.. but even if they had DNA from a familial, would they know if it arrived at time of murders or sometime prior to that, say during a visit?
 
Yes true.. but even if they had DNA from a familial, would they know if it arrived at time of murders or sometime prior to that, say during a visit?
That would certainly be the familial defense. But a lot would depend on the type of DNA found and where it was located. IE: familial blood at the crime scene
 
Yes true.. but even if they had DNA from a familial, would they know if it arrived at time of murders or sometime prior to that, say during a visit?
No idea if this would work, but was thinking about it in the other bizarre double murder..

Let's say familial dna is there because the person had previously been in the house- but wondering if dna PLUS fabric remnants are present, could that prove the person was there when the murders were committed, if the clothing worn on that particular day, prove a match to the fibers at the crime scene?
speculation.
 

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