Identified! Canada - Tofield, AB, 'Septic Tank Sam' Ntv/WhtMale 1046UMAB, Apr'77 - Gordon Edwin Sanderson

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Ajaygee11 said:
Yep, the RCMP Officer who quoted the quite specific date range may have some strong suspicions but not quite enough proof possibly.
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I've read about that and wonder what exactly happened for him to make that suspicion. I have a feeling that our Sam Doe was a victim of a hate crime. I have heard about how the indigenous people in Canada were treated horribly and it wasn't uncommon. Also, this was back in the '70s. I'm hoping the rumors of him being a child molester/rapist is more on the true side if identified than that.
 
SweetestVenom said:
I've read about that and wonder what exactly happened for him to make that suspicion. I have a feeling that our Sam Doe was a victim of a hate crime. I have heard about how the indigenous people in Canada were treated horribly and it wasn't uncommon. Also, this was back in the '70s. I'm hoping the rumors of him being a child molester/rapist is more on the true side if identified than that.
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WS doesn't trade in rumours. Where did you hear/see that particular thought?
 
victoriarobinson642 said:
I ran Sam Doe through artbreeder.com and merged him with an indigenous man. I figured he could use a little sprucing up.
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I sent your reconstructions to Greg, the lead investigator. I also linked him this thread, I feel like all of us have come up with some great theories. Don’t give up on Sam! I’ve a feeling he’s gonna be identified one day.
 
I haven't posted on Sam's thread in a while but it sure is great to see some new discussion with a hope of giving him back his name.

Forgive me if this has been discussed, but I'm thinking Sam may have suffered from rickets as a child. It affects bones, teeth, due to Vitamin D deficiency and is more common in children of aboriginal heritage.

Thinking of LE referencing "they" could tie in with multiple people and multiple weapons involved (knife, gun and blow torch). The individual garden variety killer isn't usually moseying around with such an arsenal of weaponry. In my mind, blow torch smacks of torture and gang-type killing. Also, maybe a generalization, but IMO Sam's short hair, general appearance and wardrobe combined don't spell a typical 1970s biker look. If Sam is of aboriginal descent, I doubt he himself would have been a gang member because generally it was not common in the 70s for Canadian biker gangs to open their membership to aboriginals. The native gangs Indian Posse and Native Syndicate didn't come into play until the 1980s and others followed in the 1990s.

Just my 2¢ for now
 
Having lived in rural Alberta during that same period of time, I’d also be highly doubtful Sam was connected to a bike gang considering his aboriginal heritage. Since he wasn’t reported missing by his family I’d guess he was raised by others in some sort of loose caregiver arrangement. Then as an adult he was either ostracized or lost touch for some reason and they passed away years ago.

Blowtorches are very common on farms as they’re required to repair farm implements and equipment, as most farmers back then were jack of all trades in order to keep the farm operational.

If I were to guess, I’d say Sam worked in the area and there are people who aren’t talking. That’s not totally unusual in rural areas either. Generation after generation, decades later marriages interconnecting families, old secrets can get buried.

JMO
 
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MistyWaters said:
Having lived in rural Alberta during that same period of time, I’d also be highly doubtful Sam was connected to a bike gang considering his aboriginal heritage. Since he wasn’t reported missing by his family I’d guess he was raised by others in some sort of loose caregiver arrangement. Then as an adult he was either ostracized or lost touch for some reason and they passed away years ago.

Blowtorches are very common on farms as they’re required to repair farm implements and equipment, as most farmers back then were jack of all trades in order to keep the farm operational.

If I were to guess, I’d say Sam worked in the area and there are people who aren’t talking. That’s not totally unusual in rural areas either. Generation after generation, decades later marriages interconnecting families, old secrets can get buried.

JMO
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What if he had tried to date a white woman? Would that have been likely to get him killed in the manner that he was? What if he had tried to date a married white woman?
 
Ozoner said:
What if he had tried to date a white woman? Would that have been likely to get him killed in the manner that he was? What if he had tried to date a married white woman?
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It’d be impossible to know and people aren’t typically wired for murdering others, let alone capable of what appears to be been truly horrific torture.

However it’s not too far away in my imagination to consider a group of young men together getting all liquored up, deciding to take after Sam as a result of real or imagined transgression....much like a pack of rabid dogs, taking the law into their own hands, with each attempting to outdo the other in the level of pain inflicted. And then never talking about it ever again. :(
 
Ozoner said:
What if he had tried to date a white woman? Would that have been likely to get him killed in the manner that he was? What if he had tried to date a married white woman?
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I think that's quite a stretch and not the most likely cause of his death. I live within spitting distance of 5 First Nations Reserves in northern ON, and although there are occasional racial issues, intermarriage is common and has been since Europeans first came into the area.
 
musicaljoke said:
I think that's quite a stretch and not the most likely cause of his death. I live within spitting distance of 5 First Nations Reserves in northern ON, and although there are occasional racial issues, intermarriage is common and has been since Europeans first came into the area.
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I also live in 'spitting distance' to a few reserves in Simcoe County. I can't say I've seen overt racism regarding First Nation peoples in Ontario for a very long time. This area is a tourist mecca where FN people are involved in many commercial ventures including a casino, an airport and other traditional businesses. Bill C-31 was passed in 1985 to provide gender equality to aboriginal women who married a non-status Indian or someone from another band to retain their Indian status. The very fact this amendment occurred illustrates that interracial marriages between male status Indians and non-Indian women had been happening for a very long time.
 
branmuffin said:
WS doesn't trade in rumours. Where did you hear/see that particular thought?
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It's not a rumor it's an actual fact and no secret that the indigenous people in Canada were treated as second-class citizens, at least back in those days. Just wondering if this could've been a hate crime is all. It seems like the killer may have known him based on how he was tortured.
 
SweetestVenom said:
It's not a rumor it's an actual fact and no secret that the indigenous people in Canada were treated as second-class citizens, at least back in those days. Just wondering if this could've been a hate crime is all. It seems like the killer may have known him based on how he was tortured.
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I'm not talking about the issue of the way First Nation people were treated; it's a documented fact, which I referred to in an earlier post about aboriginal children being the subjects of experiments.

The rumour and innuendo I'm referring to is you saying he was a child rapist. Where is the link to that?
 
branmuffin said:
The rumour and innuendo I'm referring to is you saying he was a child rapist. Where is the link to that?
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That sort of speculation has been reported in various media reports. That doesn’t make it true, it just proves it’s natural for people to speculate.

BBM

Aftermath[edit]
The 1,200 residents of Tofield at the time were horrified to hear of Sam's murder. Farmers checked their own septic tanks for bodies and business owners worried that Sam's murderers could have been regular customers. Many speculated Sam had been sexually mutilated due to committing a sex crime or being unfaithful in a relationship. Ed Lammerts, one of the officers who helped recover Sam's body, has since retired. He believes Sam will never be identified, despite sending X-rays of Sam's teeth to 800 Albertan dentists coupled with publishing them in dental magazines, and spending $1,000,000 CAD on the case.[4]

Septic Tank Sam - Wikipedia
 
branmuffin said:
I'm not talking about the issue of the way First Nation people were treated; it's a documented fact, which I referred to in an earlier post about aboriginal children being the subjects of experiments.

The rumour and innuendo I'm referring to is you saying he was a child rapist. Where is the link to that?
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From what i've seen on this case, Tofield citizens rumoured that this victim could have been a rapist and the victim got revenge.
 
I hope the RCMP rethink their assumption that because there were no missing persons in Alberta at the time who matched Sam's description that they concluded he was not a resident of the province.

So many Does that have been identified were never reported missing. Considering how fluid movement was back in the 1970s, they should consider Sam may have be an Alberta native.
 
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