Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #128

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minazoe said:
once I saw it as hair could not unsee it and no longer could see the hat. yes it was that walking loop! thank you!

mOO
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Glad to help! I distinctly remember it, because it changed my perception of BG's age.
 
@JJarvis — officially, I believe audio, visual, and the two sketches are what the public have been given. Although this earlier article says they collected evidence via crime scene and elsewhere:

(Bangert: A clue from a ‘hero’ in Delphi homicides)
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After missing the mark (thankfully corrected) on the proximity between the former CPS building and trailhead I did some looking, and noticed there is a business, “Hoosier Harvestore” sitting right at what appears to be the trailhead. Has anyone messed with further visuals on a POV and potential security cameras this business has?
 
thx4_medic_Babby said:

4:15 and on.
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I think you’re taking those statements out of context. He says there was no factual information out there to indicate the community wasn’t safe. Compare that to a raging lunatic roving around town randomly attacking innocent people - then it’s sure not safe.

To the contrary, would we expect the sheriff to tell the citizens of Delphi to lock themselves in their homes because where they lived wasn’t safe? When would they be allowed out?
 
JJarvis said:
New to the forum, but really interested in this case. I heard that there was a “lot” of evidence at the scene of the crime, but they have only released a short video clip and 2 totally different sketches. Does anyone know of any other evidence?
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No, LE has not disclosed to the public any information pertaining to specific evidence found at the crime scene. Other than they have said they have DNA but not if it’s known to identify the killer or if so, whether or not it’s a complete DNA profile.
 
Ozoner said:
This is a quote from the video you posted:
"More of a concern for me as a law enforcement leader was that we obviously did not want to create a large amount of paranoia or concern where individuals or families would have to constantly, if you will, be looking over their shoulder all the time wondering, you know, 'Who's that behind me?' That's no way for a community to live, in my opinion."
He has basically admitted that a desire keep the public calm was the motivating factor behind those statements.
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I agree. When a danger is known, LE established roadblocks, inform people to avoid a certain area or asks people to stay indoors while LE investigates and addresses the situation. As the murders were only discovered the following day, LE was not in hot pursuit of the killer leaving the crime scene.

But various actions were taken to increase safety -

Self defense classes coming to Delphi
“Delphi changed a month ago when someone killed 14-year-old Libby German and 13-year-old Abby Williams, and nerves are still raw knowing that the girls' killer remains on the loose.”

"I think everybody is on edge," said Lori Welk of Delphi. "Everybody is very sensitive about (safety)."

“We’ve have had quite the request for classes ever since all this happened up in Delphi.” Lafayette police's Rape Aggression Defense instructor Amanda Deckard said.....”

ISP: "We're going to track them down"
“Sheriff Leazenby said residents should remain vigilant, but not afraid.

“I don’t want to discourage anyone from using the system; it’s there for a purpose and for recreation. And I feel that folks should continue with business as usual, but be more mindful and watch their surroundings and environment a little closer. And again, report anything that doesn’t’ look right or looks unordinary (sic) to us so that we can follow up on it,” said Sheriff Leazenby.

Delphi Community Schools sent a letter home on Tuesday, offering bus rides to all students in the community, no matter where they live.

“We will be providing transportation to all students to and from school. We feel that in the best interest and safety of the students, a regular schedule is best.”....”
 
Skully said:
Any time you have to be at a scene of two little girls, murdered, you never forget that, you can never unsee it. It will haunt you to the end of your days. He will work this case long after he retires, he will always remember that scene, down to what it smelled like. But it is like that for most murder scenes, but worse when you victims are so young and innocent.
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I strongly agree. I don’t believe Carter intended people to read into his comments that the double murder scene must’ve involved significant gruesome elements, otherwise it wouldn’t have been very noteworthy to him.
 
thx4_medic_Babby said:
It’s quite disingenuous you didn’t finish his quote, so I will: “we just wanted to convey that message that was solely related to, or isolated, if you will to the individuals involved. And so there was no factual information to believe we were dealing with an ongoing situation with someone out there in the community, so I felt assured then, and still feel that way, honestly, that this is something the community is safe.
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Nothing about that verbiage detracts from the point that I made. He wanted the community to feel safe.

MistyWaters said:
I think you’re taking those statements out of context. He says there was no factual information out there to indicate the community wasn’t safe. Compare that to a raging lunatic roving around town randomly attacking innocent people - then it’s sure not safe.

To the contrary, would we expect the sheriff to tell the citizens of Delphi to lock themselves in their homes because where they lived wasn’t safe? When would they be allowed out?
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I agree 100%. There was no evidence suggesting an active shooter, there were no other violent crimes that would have suggested a spree killer, etc. LE took the took the position that it was an isolated incident because there was no concrete evidence that it wasn't; they never implied that they had affirmative evidence that it wasn't random.

(Some people here seem to want to push a narrative that runs counter to the known facts.)
 
After almost four years of discussion I think it’s safe to say we all fall on one side of the fence or the other involving aspects of this case:

The girls were targeted or they were not
It was random or it was not
The killer still lives close by or he lives far away
It’s a serial killer or not
There is only one killer or there are more
The police are corrupt or they are not
LE knows who it is or they do not
BG is old and out of shape or young and fit
The girls ran or he herded them to the crime scene
BG has a gun or not
BG is carrying a dog or perhaps a small farm animal of some type(joke)
BG has a colostomy bag or he does not
Etc

By now I doubt anybody can convince me or any of us to jump over the fence to the other side of these arguments. But we are here to discuss the case with virtually no information to work with and we all wait for an arrest. I think when that day comes we will all celebrate together and forget any dust-ups, and we won’t care who ended up on the right side of the fence.
Just my thoughts.
 
Kimmer said:
I get that you are being respectful, I just don't think they have released as much info as they should have for this length of time, with Audio and video of the perp and from what I know enough audio to know what happened during this heinous crime of these two beautiful children, I also think there are other powers at force in Carroll County that are not working as hard as they could to solve this case, and I understand that may sound harsh, but I don't see how they just keep waiting (almost 4 years) for that 1 tip that will solve this case but are unwilling to do any public updating on the case at all, so if you want help then keep the story out there are give the public small bits to work with, otherwise it looks like this is a case someone really doesn't want solved and at that point the only real question is WHY?
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They want the case solved... But like anything there are good detectives, bad detectives, too much information to go through, not enough manpower, etc.. That's where I wish that after a certain amount of time case files would be opened up to the family so they can hire a private detective if they deem necessary. It's weird that in practically every aspect of our lives we have some degree of choice, but if your child is murdered you have to put 100% faith in a group of people that were not elected, you did not choose, work in almost complete secrecy, and they're accountable to almost no one. That's not to say they're not doing the best job humanly possible with the information they have, but you would have literally no idea if they're pursuing lead day after day or they've just lost interest as time has gone by and are just waiting for a tip.
 
Ozoner said:
Nothing about that verbiage detracts from the point that I made. He wanted the community to feel safe.


I agree 100%. There was no evidence suggesting an active shooter, there were no other violent crimes that would have suggested a spree killer, etc. LE took the took the position that it was an isolated incident because there was no concrete evidence that it wasn't; they never implied that they had affirmative evidence that it wasn't random.

(Some people here seem to want to push a narrative that runs counter to the known facts.)
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The video posted was two+ years post-murder, and in regard to where law enforcement claimed the crime was “isolated”, of which Leazenby responded, and went further stating there was no factual evidence stating otherwise.

If we’re to believe his words, we should decrease the likelihood of a “serial killer” theory, IMO.
 
I think the parents in Delphi should terrified, and the surrounding counties even states. this is a cold blooded homicidal maniac, period...there is no other explanation or description that matters...his acts define him.

I feel he is operating on some level, doing other lesser" activities like peeping, maybe attempting to lure children on line or from his car, exposing himself, maybe stalking or abusing a family member or someone in his personal life...but he is out there..

hopefully they pick him up and connect the dots.

if he's living deep in a basement somewhere trolling the internet/dark web and is totally subversive, this will harder.

mOO
 
minazoe said:
I think the parents in Delphi should terrified, and the surrounding counties even states. this is a cold blooded homicidal maniac, period...there is no other explanation or description that matters...his acts define him.

I feel he is operating on some level, doing other lesser" activities like peeping, maybe attempting to lure children on line or from his car, exposing himself, maybe stalking or abusing a family member or someone in his personal life...but he is out there..

hopefully they pick him up and connect the dots.

if he's living deep in a basement somewhere trolling the internet/dark web and is totally subversive, this will harder.

mOO
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I agree that his homicidal tendencies haven't gone away. Now that he's committed a double murder, I don't think that anything short of murder will give him the same kind of gratification. I do think that he will kill again—eventually.

If he hasn't killed since 2017, there are three likely reasons:
1) He's dead.
2) He's incarcerated.
3) Finding out that he was captured on audio and video spooked him, so he's remained dormant longer than he would have otherwise. If he knows he's a suspect because police interviewed him at some point, he may remain dormant for a quite a while.

He is likely a sadist, so inflicting pain on others (physical or emotional) may be par for the course for him. He may hit or belittle his wife.

Like I said, I don't think lower-level offenses would provide him with much gratification at this point. He may well have done things like torturing animals and window peeping prior to the murders; those crimes would have given him a sense of control over his victims.

I don't think he's the type who would expose himself; the profile of that type of offender would be very different. (Some people have speculated that the witness for the NBG sketch may have caught him masturbating outdoors, which is possible, especially if it was right after the murders, but that's not the same as deliberately exposing himself.)

It is a virtual certainty that he fantasizes about the murders daily. If the time comes when he can no longer achieve sexual gratification from those fantasies, that's when he'll kill again.
 
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Where has it been speculated “BG” was potentially “masturbating outdoors” — leading to the first sketch? That sounds like a simple rumor, and a bad one at that.
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Hypothetically, if “BG” murdered the girls on RL’s property, then proximity-wise, wouldn’t the cemetery have always been the wisest and safest option for exiting? If “BG” ran into water or blood, then this further adds to a alternative exit.
 
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Skully said:
Best guess, if BG is just there for that day, why is he there? I am assuming he is from the area and came back for some reason. Hunting trip, visiting family, or friends, or just decided to go there just in case the opportunity to kill that day is there. He is prepared, so I think it is a planned trip to the park, but why that day? Also what kind of job opportunities are there in Delphi, if he worked there in the past? Just wondering...
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Without any excuse meant by me: Maybe BG was in trouble with himself since some time (which doesn't have to be for very long). He had to act out (maybe: again) this inner revolt, somewhere, somehow, to end his turmoil and feel functional as quickly as possible. He did know, where to find a possible victim because of stalking or he didn't know and hoped for some opportunity. Maybe he knew the area because of connections to the drug scene. - Many "maybe-s" and only IMO.
 
thx4_medic_Babby said:
Where has it been speculated “BG” was potentially “masturbating outdoors” — leading to the first sketch? That sounds like a simple rumor, and a bad one at that.
—
Hypothetically, if “BG” murdered the girls on RL’s property, then proximity-wise, wouldn’t the cemetery have always been the wisest and safest option for exiting? If “BG” ran into water or blood, then this further adds to a alternative exit.
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It isn't even a rumor because no one has claimed that he was doing that, which is why I used the word speculated. (It also wasn't an important part of the post, which is why it was in parentheses—like this.)

The speculation was based on information released about the NBG sketch. "The picture was based on the description of a person who saw something that the person felt needed to be reported, according to Bryant [the sketch artist]."

When a comment from LE is that vague, people are going to speculate. I personally doubt that was what the witness saw. For one thing, the possibilities are endless.
 
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Ozoner said:
It isn't even a rumor because no one has claimed that he was doing that, which is why I used the word speculated. (It also wasn't an important part of the post, which is why it was in parentheses—like this.)

The speculation was based on information released about the NBG sketch. "The picture was based on the description of a person who saw something that the person felt needed to be reported, according to Bryant [the sketch artist]."

When a comment from LE is that vague, people are going to speculate. I personally doubt that was what the witness saw. For one thing, the possibilities are endless.
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Yes the possibilities are endless because whatever the witness saw that was considered suspicious obviously wasn’t suspicious enough at the time for LE to immediately recognize it as a sighting of the prime suspect.

Walking past another person on a rural municipal trail or sitting on a bench who doesn’t make eye contact or say hello could be considered a suspicious sighting especially on the same day of double homicides occurring.
 
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