Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #3

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Ontario Mom said:
The thing with the lie detector tests is, you're darned if you do, darned if you don't.
If you're being 100% honest but also incredibly nervous, you can fail.
If you're too nervous to take one, you're immediately painted as having something to hide.
If you take one and pass, you'll be labelled one of those people who's just a good liar.
Or a sociopath. Or both. I think we've seen it all here.
Really, LE should just do away with this procedure, as it doesn't even pass muster for court.

jmo
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I have to disagree . The government still uses them for security clearances and they are still really really good indicators of someone being untruthful !
Moo
 
Knox said:
Which Grandmother, Trezell or Jacqueline's Mom? Why give that detail and not the timeline. That's a rhetorical question, I know that. Just frustrated :(
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Jacqueline’s mom, who also stays at the same apartment in Bakersfield and has her own foster kids, as reported by neighbors.


Knox said:
Interesting Points-
  • This is the second time Chief Walker has mentioned the involvement of the Kern County DA (gives me hope an arrest will be made).
  • Has there been any suspect or suspects named in this case so far, Walker says no. Any persons of interest at this point? Walker says of course, Byan asks, who? Walker says, I can't disclose that.
  • Walker says there are two bio kids, two foster kids and two adopted kids (Orrin & Orson). Ranging from age 10-3.
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Now that’s interesting! MSM has reported 4 adopted or 2 foster, 2 adopted. Chief says the latter.
 
Vae Victus said:
One more thing from this article.

It's confirmed now that they have their phones back but the Wests still haven't made any new missing posters with the recent pictures JW claims she has. In their interview they shifted the blame to LE and said the reason why there's no recent pics circulating is because LE "took their tech". Now we know that they have their phones back and still haven't put out new posters or anything. That strikes me as a little odd lol. You'd figure they'd want people to know what Orrin & Orson look like currently.

"Search warrant used to collect items from the home, including adoptive parents cell phones, ipads and other electronic devices. Phones have since been returned."

https://www.turnto23.com/news/local...-city-boys-adoptive-parents-officials-confirm
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Great point!
WHERE ARE THE RECENT PHOTOS, JW?

I just watched Bayan's full interview. He did great. I just want to raise up that just like in Perla's interview, Cal City Chief did a lot of parsing of words around his portion of the investigation.
  • In Perla interview, when asked if BPD took over investigation he specified that Cal City is still lead on the "missing persons investigation" - the way he parsed that certainly hinted that there was another investigation in which BPD may be the lead (e,g, homicide)
  • At 23:45 in Bayan Wang full interview, Chief says "My portion of the investigation at this point - How did those kids get out of the backyard?"
  • At 30:00 in Bayan Wang, he asks if Silver Saddle was last search and chief parses "In Cal City, yeah"
  • Also of note because it is a shift in how he addressed this in past, he refused to comment on if there was evidence of abuse or neglect.
 
MoeInVA said:
Great point!
WHERE ARE THE RECENT PHOTOS, JW?

I just watched Bayan's full interview. He did great. I just want to raise up that just like in Perla's interview, Cal City Chief did a lot of parsing of words around his portion of the investigation.
  • In Perla interview, when asked if BPD took over investigation he specified that Cal City is still lead on the "missing persons investigation" - the way he parsed that certainly hinted that there was another investigation in which BPD may be the lead (e,g, homicide)
  • At 23:45 in Bayan Wang full interview, Chief says "My portion of the investigation at this point - How did those kids get out of the backyard?"
  • At 30:00 in Bayan Wang, he asks if Silver Saddle was last search and chief parses "In Cal City, yeah"
  • Also of note because it is a shift in how he addressed this in past, he refused to comment on if there was evidence of abuse or neglect.
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Chief Walker is getting better at deflecting, he said I'm not going to get into that to several questions. Bayan also called him on his "foul play" comment.

Wasn't your last point related to his answer as to where the other four kids are currently and CPS?

I wish he would have asked if they had attorneys.
 
Knox said:
Chief Walker is getting better at deflecting, he said I'm not going to get into that to several questions. Bayan also called him on his "foul play" comment.

Wasn't your last point related to his answer as to where the other four kids are currently and CPS?

I wish he would have asked if they had attorneys.
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I know !!! I’ve been dying to know if they lawyered up!
 
IMO lie detector testing is irrelevant.
If I were accused of a crime, I would refuse to take one. They are not inaccurate and they are subject to interpretation, and no attorney would advise you take one. If they refused to take one, that doesn't tell us anything, IMO.

I am most interested in what's been going on in the interview room.

I'm worried they were given back their phones because they are newly- purchased (relatively), and there was nothing of interest to analyze.
 
Rachelj1 said:
I just really don’t think this could be it. I feel like if this happened , it was accidental and one of them would of called immediately .
Moo
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I don't know if that's what happened either, but when a child or children die by neglect, parents don't always call 911 immediately. Sometimes they go to great lengths to cover it up.

The same is true in a crime of passion, when one spouse "accidentally" kills the other in a fit of rage. The perpetrator may try to cover it up by hiding the body, even if it means committing further crimes.

In many homicide by child abuse cases, the parent never intended the child to die. Still, when children die as a result of abuse or neglect they can still be charged with murder, even if the death was an accident.

I'm not saying that's what happened here but in some cases parents don't always consider calling 911.

Imo
 
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Rachelj1 said:
I know , and you are right they cant even hold up in court. I just meant I think police could get a good idea whether or not they were on the right path!
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I've known a lot of cops over the years, and most will tell you they already know if someone is lying or not, often from the first contact. Obviously it's not a science but, based on years of dealing with criminals & liars, and seeing the signs. Hand gestures, body language, verbal tells, etc.

That doesn't hold up in court either :) so digging deeper and finding evidence proving the lie, has to be done even if a polygraph is taken. I think they're just a waste of time, really.

jmo
 
ChatteringBirds said:
IMO lie detector testing is irrelevant.
If I were accused of a crime, I would refuse to take one. They are not inaccurate and they are subject to interpretation, and no attorney would advise you take one. If they refused to take one, that doesn't tell us anything, IMO.

I am most interested in what's been going on in the interview room.

I'm worried they were given back their phones because they are newly- purchased (relatively), and there was nothing of interest to analyze.
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Doesn’t matter if they have their phones. The data is in the cloud, which requires a warrant to access.

amateur opinion and speculation
 
Ontario Mom said:
I've known a lot of cops over the years, and most will tell you they already know if someone is lying or not, often from the first contact. Obviously it's not a science but, based on years of dealing with criminals & liars, and seeing the signs. Hand gestures, body language, verbal tells, etc.

That doesn't hold up in court either :) so digging deeper and finding evidence proving the lie, has to be done even if a polygraph is taken. I think they're just a waste of time, really.

jmo
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YES! Some are better liars than others, but I think it is definitely obvious when someone is lying / trying to hide something.
 
Frodosdojo said:
Jacqueline’s mom, who also stays at the same apartment in Bakersfield and has her own foster kids, as reported by neighbors.




Now that’s interesting! MSM has reported 4 adopted or 2 foster, 2 adopted. Chief says the latter.
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And the extended family said the parents adopted two sets of siblings. The neighbor with the camera also said he thought they were foster children. I wonder why the family thought they were adopted.
 
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