20/20 Special - The List: Who Killed Jonbenet? on 15 Jan 2021

[fr brown]

@14:03
A source told CM that
There was a pair of balled up underware that were soaked with urine that had been thrown behind a chair in JBR's room.

LS did not believe there was urine on JBRs sheets.
Although if you open up the evidence bag the smell is putrid.

Dr Lucy Rorke believes JBR was hit on the head first and may have survived with medical care.

CM was told that there is not enough dna for genealogical or familial DNA testing,

Juror appeared on camera because
he felt its been 24 years, so you can use his face and name.

JAR blocked WS from his twitter.

The question was raised: Which Ramsey handwriting experts testified at the grand jury? Forensics Under Fire says that they were Rile, Cunningham and L. Donald Vacca. Rile, according to FUF, Rile wanted a do-over. I would interpret that as Rile coming apart like a cheap suit.

 

[fr brown]

@14:03
A source told CM that
There was a pair of balled up underware that were soaked with urine that had been thrown behind a chair in JBR's room.

LS did not believe there was urine on JBRs sheets.
Although if you open up the evidence bag the smell is putrid.

Dr Lucy Rorke believes JBR was hit on the head first and may have survived with medical care.

CM was told that there is not enough dna for genealogical or familial DNA testing,

Juror appeared on camera because
he felt its been 24 years, so you can use his face and name.

JAR blocked WS from his twitter.

The question was raised: Which Ramsey handwriting experts testified at the grand jury? Forensics Under Fire says that they were Rile, Cunningham and L. Donald Vacca. Rile, according to FUF, Rile wanted a do-over. I would interpret that as Rile coming apart like a cheap suit.

 

[Tadpole12]

JonBenet Ramsey’s half brother still wants to find her killer: ‘This case can be solved’
Jan 22, 2021

 

[UKGuy]

JonBenet Ramsey’s half brother still wants to find her killer: ‘This case can be solved’
Jan 22, 2021

Tadpole12,
Wow, has JAR not taken a while to work all this out?

Still he does not have far to look.

I hope he has his answers ready, because when John passes on, it will be open season on the case, especially by the tabloids.

.

 

[UKGuy]

@14:03
A source told CM that
There was a pair of balled up underware that were soaked with urine that had been thrown behind a chair in JBR's room.

LS did not believe there was urine on JBRs sheets.
Although if you open up the evidence bag the smell is putrid.

Dr Lucy Rorke believes JBR was hit on the head first and may have survived with medical care.

CM was told that there is not enough dna for genealogical or familial DNA testing,

Juror appeared on camera because
he felt its been 24 years, so you can use his face and name.

JAR blocked WS from his twitter.

Tadpole12,
How come Steve Thomas et al, missed the urine soaked underwear, thats a killer deal for his Wet The Bed theory?

Also BPD did itemize them in their underwear count?
Atlanta 2000 BPD Patsy Interview Excerpt

1 Q. (By Mr. Kane) Okay. Were you
2 aware that these were the size of panties
3 that she was wearing, and this has been
4 publicized, it is out in the open, that they
5 were size 12 to 14? Were you aware of
6 that?
7 A. I have become aware of that, yes.
8 Q. And how did you become aware of
9 that?
10 A. Something I read, I am sure.
11 Q. And I will just state a fact
12 here. I mean, there were 15 pair of panties
13 taken out of, by the police, out of
14 JonBenet's panty drawer in her bathroom. Is
15 that where she kept -
16 A. Uh-huh (affirmative).
17 Q. -- where you were describing that
18 they were just put in that drawer?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Okay. And every one of those was
21 either a size four or a size six. Okay?

Does this mean there were really sixteen pairs of underwear taken out by the police?

.

 

[Tadpole12]

crimescene-inventory.htm

 

[icedtea4me]

Tadpole12,
Wow, has JAR not taken a while to work all this out?

Still he does not have far to look.

I hope he has his answers ready, because when John passes on, it will be open season on the case, especially by the tabloids.

.

It could be either that or perhaps John will have made a videotaped confession to be aired after his death.

 

[Tadpole12]

Looking for the JK/dailybeast crime scene video for footage of the chair.
Says 'members only', now.
Is it visible in the crime scene photos?

Chair visible in Radaronline video?
There were two empty glasses and a table knife on the table with the bowl of pineapple.

Re post #1
JBR'S bedroom @5:01
I don't see a chair?
there's a foot stool by the tree

 

[fcavanaugh]

JonBenet Ramsey’s half brother still wants to find her killer: ‘This case can be solved’
Jan 22, 2021

Snipped from the article and BBM:

“The objective of this documentary is to keep JonBenet’s case in the spotlight," John Andrew told Fox News of his late sibling. "We hope it can keep memories fresh for people who may know anything. Maybe it can compel someone to come out and share information that they’ve been holding on to for 24 years."’

I doubt it, gosh knows your Father isn’t going to break.

IMO, if anyone comes forward to “share information”, it won’t happen until JR
IMHO

 

[fcavanaugh]

Snipped from the article and BBM:

“The objective of this documentary is to keep JonBenet’s case in the spotlight," John Andrew told Fox News of his late sibling. "We hope it can keep memories fresh for people who may know anything. Maybe it can compel someone to come out and share information that they’ve been holding on to for 24 years."’

I doubt it, gosh knows your Father isn’t going to break.

IMO, if anyone comes forward to “share information”, it won’t happen until JR
IMHO

Quoting my own post to finish thought:

IMO, if anyone comes forward to “share information”, it won’t happen until JR no longer walks the earth.

 

[mickey2942]

Quoting my own post to finish thought:

IMO, if anyone comes forward to “share information”, it won’t happen until JR no longer walks the earth.

I still can't believe that he tried a political run for the House of Representatives. Wikipedia says that he is "broke". Hmmm
John Bennett Ramsey - Wikipedia

 

[Betty P]

Are we finally allowed to discuss the Intruder theory here? I tried in the past and was told it was not allowed. We could only discuss the family.

I listened to the Victims Voice podcast episodes. Go listen if you haven’t and then tell me how you can possibly argue that there was not an intruder.

Why on earth would Lou Smits family dedicate their time to testing DNA. They need the original DNA to submit to genealogy. All they have is the report. This is maddening to me.

If it was an intruder, why did Patsy Ramsey forge a fake ransom note?

 

[UKGuy]

I still can't believe that he tried a political run for the House of Representatives. Wikipedia says that he is "broke". Hmmm
John Bennett Ramsey - Wikipedia

mickey2942,
mmm, JR aint broke, he has assets beyond the reach of the IRS.


Yeah, John Ramsey running for Office tells you everything you want to know about the man.

You learn even more when you find out the Republicans turned him down, i.e. he was toxic!

I have to guess he would have been running on a Crime and Order ticket?

So blackballed by the Republicans he has found the Media more to his taste.

.

 

[icedtea4me]

I'm wondering if the brush end that was left in the tote for whatever reason might have t-dna on the hairs.

I'm also wondering that if the end of the flashlight opposite the lens were to be swabbed, dna from JonBenet's saliva might be found. The circumference of a Maglite flashlight is similar to that of an erect adult male penis.

 

[Tobiano8th]

responding to a couple of comments/questions made earlier,

1) why did PR write a fake ransom note? probably to deflect attention elsewhere... was it a dumb thing to do? who knows?.............if you don't believe she wrote it, why would an IDI write a fake ransom note?.......... at some level of thinking, either PR or IDI writing note makes no sense, but someone wrote it..... as for me, any time I start wondering about IDI I think of that note, which to my mind PR almost assuredly wrote.

2) venom toward Smit (Smits)?... maybe because he became confident of their innocence due to having prayed with them..... and he has been on a panel where he knew unfactual evidence was being spewed and said nothing..... he acts like a defence lawyer, although a defence lawyer isn't supposed to sit there when lies are being said either..... there is a theory he was brought in specifically to exonerate the Rs i.e. giant coverup for BR.

 

[wonderllama]

1) why did PR write a fake ransom note? probably to deflect attention elsewhere... was it a dumb thing to do? who knows?.............if you don't believe she wrote it, why would an IDI write a fake ransom note?.......... at some level of thinking, either PR or IDI writing note makes no sense, but someone wrote it.....

And that's about it really, isn't it!

Looking at all the evidence, speculating what happened and who might have done it, who secreted what where and who did or didn't lick a paintbrush, really does come down to....

"But what about the ransom note?"

If someone can rationalise an intruder WITH the ransom note, I'm pretty sure there's no amount of evidence that will change their mind.

 

[UKGuy]

And that's about it really, isn't it!

Looking at all the evidence, speculating what happened and who might have done it, who secreted what where and who did or didn't lick a paintbrush, really does come down to....

"But what about the ransom note?"

If someone can rationalise an intruder WITH the ransom note, I'm pretty sure there's no amount of evidence that will change their mind.

wonderllama,

If someone can rationalise an intruder WITH the ransom note, I'm pretty sure there's no amount of evidence that will change their mind.

Lets consider that someone, an intruder might have the same rationale as any Ramsey resident for penning a ransom note.

What might the resident's rationale be, i.e. why bother with the note at all? Why not just dial 911 and scream My Baby is Missing, Help Me!

Also if it was an intruder who left his abductee behind, same question, why not leave JonBenet on her bedroom bed?

What is the percentage in churning out Ransom Note drafts, also was this done after or before JonBenet was asphyxiated? So why bother with the after bit if you are going to leave empty handed and further contribute forensic deposits?

Really the intruder can only write a Ransom Note postmortem if the intent is to stage JonBenet's death, e.g. a failed abduction?

Suggesting the intruder really came to sexually assault JonBenet, which went wrong, so for whatever reason her death is then staged as a failed kidnapping, i.e. no ransom note authored prior to assaulting JonBenet.

Does that sound convincing?

So what about the residents: similar reasoning applies, but with a twist. Staging JonBenet in the basement means moving her body, which breaks any links with the primary crime-scene, e.g. her bedroom?

Now if the residents diall 911 and shout JonBenet has gone missing the police will search the house, possibly even using the Canine Patrol?

If they say its a kidnapping instead of a Missing Person case, then just possibly they might get enough time to bail out of town?

So moving JonBenet to the basement is to obscure where she was assaulted and hide that she was redressed and cleaned up, e.g. abducted straight from her bed.

Writing the Ransom Note explains how a dead body moved downstairs, and hopefully dilutes any house search along with buying time to leave town ASAP.

So the intruder scenario does not stand up, as a postmortem RN is inconsistent and an antemortem RN does not require the leisure time spent in the Ramsey house authoring, i.e. the intruder should come prepared, or simply phone the house the next day, unannounced and state their demands?

So it's patently an inside job, not that of a child in its entirety, also the Grand Jury hit both parents with a True Bill : COUNT VII (Accessory to a Crime), suggesting they both did unlawfully, knowingly and feloniously render assistance to a person .... knowing the person being assisted has committed and was suspected of the crime of Murder in the First Degree and Child Abuse Resulting in Death.

That is, allegedly, both parents assisted a person who assaulted JonBenet and murdered her.

Looks to me as if a Ramsey resident assaulted and murdered JonBenet and both parents helped in the postmortem staging?

.

 

[Colorado303]

wonderllama,

Lets consider that someone, an intruder might have the same rationale as any Ramsey resident for penning a ransom note.

What might the resident's rationale be, i.e. why bother with the note at all? Why not just dial 911 and scream My Baby is Missing, Help Me!

Also if it was an intruder who left his abductee behind, same question, why not leave JonBenet on her bedroom bed?

What is the percentage in churning out Ransom Note drafts, also was this done after or before JonBenet was asphyxiated? So why bother with the after bit if you are going to leave empty handed and further contribute forensic deposits?

Really the intruder can only write a Ransom Note postmortem if the intent is to stage JonBenet's death, e.g. a failed abduction?

Suggesting the intruder really came to sexually assault JonBenet, which went wrong, so for whatever reason her death is then staged as a failed kidnapping, i.e. no ransom note authored prior to assaulting JonBenet.

Does that sound convincing?

So what about the residents: similar reasoning applies, but with a twist. Staging JonBenet in the basement means moving her body, which breaks any links with the primary crime-scene, e.g. her bedroom?

Now if the residents diall 911 and shout JonBenet has gone missing the police will search the house, possibly even using the Canine Patrol?

If they say its a kidnapping instead of a Missing Person case, then just possibly they might get enough time to bail out of town?

So moving JonBenet to the basement is to obscure where she was assaulted and hide that she was redressed and cleaned up, e.g. abducted straight from her bed.

Writing the Ransom Note explains how a dead body moved downstairs, and hopefully dilutes any house search along with buying time to leave town ASAP.

So the intruder scenario does not stand up, as a postmortem RN is inconsistent and an antemortem RN does not require the leisure time spent in the Ramsey house authoring, i.e. the intruder should come prepared, or simply phone the house the next day, unannounced and state their demands?

So it's patently an inside job, not that of a child in its entirety, also the Grand Jury hit both parents with a True Bill : COUNT VII (Accessory to a Crime), suggesting they both did unlawfully, knowingly and feloniously render assistance to a person .... knowing the person being assisted has committed and was suspected of the crime of Murder in the First Degree and Child Abuse Resulting in Death.

That is, allegedly, both parents assisted a person who assaulted JonBenet and murdered her.

Looks to me as if a Ramsey resident assaulted and murdered JonBenet and both parents helped in the postmortem staging?

.

Yepper. My only question is did both parents perform the staging or only one. No doubt by the time the dust settled both parents were aware of what really happened and willfully withheld evidence. But I wonder how much had already occurred before JR ever woke up. I’m convinced we’ll never know.

 

[wonderllama]

wonderllama,

...

Looks to me as if a Ramsey resident assaulted and murdered JonBenet and both parents helped in the postmortem staging?

.

Agree 100%.
Each time I hear someone claiming it has to be an intruder, it really does feel like they've locked on to one of a few things;
a- A parent couldn't do that to their child
b- The DNA
c- There was a stun gun used.

Ruling out "a" is a no brainer because all sorts of people do all sorts of things to all sorts of people for all sorts of reasons.
So you're left with the DNA or the Stun Gun.

I try and piece together an intruder theory and always it comes undone at the note.

"I'm going to kidnap this child and take her away so I can collect a ransom"
That HAS to be the intention, otherwise it's simply a murder case.
So accepting that the intent of an "intruder" was to kidnap the child, they have either taken her from her bed (in which case why not walk straight out the door with her), or they lured her FROM her bed (not sure how, unless it was with an earlier promise to meet, which requires an awful lot of patience and lying in wait) or it was lucky that she wandered down into the basement (in which case, if you're trying to kidnap her, why wouldn't you then go back upstairs and leave?).

At this point someone will say, "well, that's why they were trying to leave via the window in the basement!", which suggests either it was planned that way (seems terribly convoluted, especially if carrying a subdued child out the window, or if not subdued, getting her to climb up separate to you). Remember, there are perfectly good working doors just upstairs in the kitchen!
And if that WASN'T planned and it was a case of having lured her to the basement, why on earth have you lured her to the basement? Why not just the kitchen and then leave through the doors?

So just the keep up, at this stage, the Intruder has PLANNED to leave via the basement window, but they've stun gunned her? Was that upstairs? (then why not pick her up and leave through the kitchen doors?) Was that IN the kitchen? (Remember those kitchen doors?) Or in the basement? (She's subdued....carry her up and out the kitchen doors!)

"Maybe that's when he gave up and left her there!"
So after a blow to the head and asphyxiating her? Better throw in a quick stun gun zap as well?

"No, it came first!"
Then why the blow to the head? Why the asphyxiation? If you've stunned a small girl, pick her up and leave!

"No, it came AFTER the blow to the head!"
Then why are you stun gunning her? That blow to the head was pretty flippin' hard. She would have been knocked unconscious. Zapping for fun?

No...none of that makes any sense at all.

The only way for an Intruder theory to progress from the nonsense stage is to say the note was written ahead of time, which it wasn't because it was written IN the house. So if it was written IN the house and prior to the interactions with JonBenet, someone broke in and spent more time writing a note than carrying out the kidnapping. (Keeping in mind, the actual kidnapping was all they were supposed to be doing, ZAP, GRAB, LEAVE).

"But the DNA!"

Seriously? All that other stuff and still worrying about the DNA?

 

[David Rogers]

Agree 100%.
Each time I hear someone claiming it has to be an intruder, it really does feel like they've locked on to one of a few things;
a- A parent couldn't do that to their child
b- The DNA
c- There was a stun gun used.

Ruling out "a" is a no brainer because all sorts of people do all sorts of things to all sorts of people for all sorts of reasons.
So you're left with the DNA or the Stun Gun.

I try and piece together an intruder theory and always it comes undone at the note.

"I'm going to kidnap this child and take her away so I can collect a ransom"
That HAS to be the intention, otherwise it's simply a murder case.
So accepting that the intent of an "intruder" was to kidnap the child, they have either taken her from her bed (in which case why not walk straight out the door with her), or they lured her FROM her bed (not sure how, unless it was with an earlier promise to meet, which requires an awful lot of patience and lying in wait) or it was lucky that she wandered down into the basement (in which case, if you're trying to kidnap her, why wouldn't you then go back upstairs and leave?).

At this point someone will say, "well, that's why they were trying to leave via the window in the basement!", which suggests either it was planned that way (seems terribly convoluted, especially if carrying a subdued child out the window, or if not subdued, getting her to climb up separate to you). Remember, there are perfectly good working doors just upstairs in the kitchen!
And if that WASN'T planned and it was a case of having lured her to the basement, why on earth have you lured her to the basement? Why not just the kitchen and then leave through the doors?

So just the keep up, at this stage, the Intruder has PLANNED to leave via the basement window, but they've stun gunned her? Was that upstairs? (then why not pick her up and leave through the kitchen doors?) Was that IN the kitchen? (Remember those kitchen doors?) Or in the basement? (She's subdued....carry her up and out the kitchen doors!)

"Maybe that's when he gave up and left her there!"
So after a blow to the head and asphyxiating her? Better throw in a quick stun gun zap as well?

"No, it came first!"
Then why the blow to the head? Why the asphyxiation? If you've stunned a small girl, pick her up and leave!

"No, it came AFTER the blow to the head!"
Then why are you stun gunning her? That blow to the head was pretty flippin' hard. She would have been knocked unconscious. Zapping for fun?

No...none of that makes any sense at all.

The only way for an Intruder theory to progress from the nonsense stage is to say the note was written ahead of time, which it wasn't because it was written IN the house. So if it was written IN the house and prior to the interactions with JonBenet, someone broke in and spent more time writing a note than carrying out the kidnapping. (Keeping in mind, the actual kidnapping was all they were supposed to be doing, ZAP, GRAB, LEAVE).

"But the DNA!"

Seriously? All that other stuff and still worrying about the DNA?

That is great reasoning. Thanks.