UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #20

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RubyLee87 said:
He’s trying to play down and normalise his predatory behaviour by using words such as ‘fetish’, ‘voyeurism’ and talking about ‘having a problem’. The crimes he’s been convicted of have long-lasting psychological effects on the victims. I hope the jury can see through this ‘poor me’ act.
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Newthoughts said:
Yes I must admit I'm confused at the defence using this because it leaves the door wide open for the prosecution to give far more detail on them. Including the judge in that cases pre sentence summing up when he called him a danger and gave him 8 1/2 years even tho each individual crime only carried a short sentence. Felt they were so serious they had to be served consecutively rather than concurrently to keep him inside!

Surely now the prosecution can use that? Should use that
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I hope the prosecution is doing a good job in this case - what do people think? It seemed to be quick presenting it's case?
 
LucyRocket said:
It's not. It's a very real thing. Today. One of my very best friends has just left her husband as she just had her baby and he was pressuring her for sex and threatened to go elsewhere. So many of my friends and acquaintances have had similar experiences. Thankfully I'm sure there are many more who haven't. But believe me, it happens, and I didn't take the post to look like his wife was being blamed at all. I've never blamed my friends for their husbands' selfish behaviour. Far from it
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I'm not suggesting it doesn't happen. I'm very well aware that it does ... I'm saying that the focus should be on THOSE men not being able to control THEMSELVES rather the focus being on the women who aren't 'doing their duty and taking care of their man' which is the attitude of some even unintentionally
 
He raped her, didn't use a condom leaving his dna, thats why, in my opinion, I think he killed her, he had no intention of letting her leave the park, poor Libby, totally breaks my heart, I hope the dirty b@#£@£@ rots in hell, I truly believe he is a danger to all woman
 
Offaly said:
I hope the prosecution is doing a good job in this case - what do people think? It seemed to be quick presenting it's case?
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From the updates provided by @jamjim I think they are. I believe we did not see everything presenting by the prosecution. I look forward to their cross examination of PR. From what we have heard so far I cannot imagine the prosecution will not question him on all his lies. MOO
 
Offaly said:
I hope the prosecution is doing a good job in this case - what do people think? It seemed to be quick presenting it's case?
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They know PR better than we do and after today's performance, I think they're just going to let him hang his self on the stand. They probably jumped for joy on hearing he was going to take the stand and finished work early .
 
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Tortoise said:
Relowicz then said it was “around 11pm” he left his home because he felt “strangely” that he left Libby and “knew perfectly well there is a camera there [on Beverley Road] and she could have fallen over and I thought, ‘what if she falls over and freezes?’”
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I wonder why he said he 'knew perfectly well there is a camera there'? Is he saying 'I didn't want to be blamed for anything that may have happened to her, given I knew I was on camera with her'?
or what?

Plus... I agree with others who're thinking perhaps he unzipped his flies and that's when Libby tried to get away from him. After all, they do say that there's a grain of truth in every lie. He brought up the subject of his flies didn't he, by claiming that Libby tried to unzip them. 'Falls over and freezes'... that's another one. A faulty sentence containing an element of truth. He couldn't quite bring himself to end the sentence in the normal way - 'to death', but that's what he was hoping it would look like when she was found. Except somehow, or at some later point.... she ended up in the river.
 
I assume he knows where all the cameras are in the area, otherwise you'd almost think he went home, googled street view, clocked the camera (what camera, actually? there isn't one at that spot, otherwise the police would have seen exactly what happened) but ok, clocked a camera and realised he needed to throw Libby into the river.
 
Winterbells said:
I wonder why he said he 'knew perfectly well there is a camera there'? Is he saying 'I didn't want to be blamed for anything that may have happened to her, given I knew I was on camera with her'?
or what?

Plus... I agree with others who're thinking perhaps he unzipped his flies and that's when Libby tried to get away from him. After all, they do say that there's a grain of truth in every lie. He brought up the subject of his flies didn't he, by claiming that Libby tried to unzip them. 'Falls over and freezes'... that's another one. A faulty sentence containing an element of truth. He couldn't quite bring himself to end the sentence in the normal way - 'to death', but that's what he was hoping it would look like when she was found. Except somehow, or at some later point.... she ended up in the river.
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I wonder if he mentioned Libby trying to undo his flies as he thought he might have been captured on cctv with his undone.
 
Winterbells said:
I assume he knows where all the cameras are in the area, otherwise you'd almost think he went home, googled street view, clocked the camera (what camera, actually? there isn't one at that spot, otherwise the police would have seen exactly what happened) but ok, clocked a camera and realised he needed to throw Libby into the river.
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I cant make it out. It could be some weird double bluff but I kind of think he might know. Good job he missed spidercam though.
 
ForensicToxicologist said:
Respectfully, I am not familiar with that case or evidence so I will not comment on any comparison or why “that case had enough but this one doesn’t”. You are absolutely correct in saying that convictions can happen without a body or definitive cause of death. In those cases, prosecution relies on other evidence gathered. IMO, in this case, based solely on what we have heard the media report from court, there is not enough evidence for a murder conviction. Negligent homicide or manslaughter, sure. I admire your passion for your belief of guilt in this case. But, remember to take out any knowledge you’ve gained from WS or through your own research of the case and only look at what we’ve seen from court. Thats what the jury must do. That’s where I run into the problem of having enough evidence for no reasonable doubt. If after that, you still disagree, so be it. However, to me from a forensic standpoint that I look at in cases daily, there is currently reasonable doubt for a murder charge. I don’t think others here with that view are off base, regardless of how guilty we all feel PR is.

Everyone arguing in circles after making their point and providing their own evidence to back it up is pointless (that is an “in general” statement and not meant to single you out) as it is changing no ones opinions.

ETA we are in agreement that there is plenty of evidence linking PR to Libby and to her rape. I am only debating whether there is enough evidence for a specific charge of murder, rather than a lesser charge holding him responsible for her death.
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Not even the first visit to the park, or the prior drone activity, third visit to the park, dragging Libby into his car if never violent to women, the bruises on Libby's body, the pathologist inability to say she definitely drowned, the inability to rule out asphixiation as a cause of death, the not going to police when Libby was reported missing.
 
Skigh said:
I wonder if he mentioned Libby trying to undo his flies as he thought he might have been captured on cctv with his undone.
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He knew that Libby would be found eventually if he just raped and left her there in the cold etc. How was he then going to explain his semen in her, her account of what really happened if she survived. If he left her alive, she would tell what happened, if he raped and killed her he would be tied to her murder when his semen was discovered and her body would provide more DNA evidence of him and injuries. If he was scared to admit his other voyeuristic crimes, there's no way he'd want people to know he was a rapist and/or murderer. His only Solution was to get rid of her body in the most obvious place (the river) and he nearly got away with it only her body turned up.
 
HongKongPhooey said:
Techy question - has he taken the stand because he wanted to change his story and it was the only way he could present it at this stage?
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Interesting point. I think he is arrogant enough to think he can lie himself out of situations, unless confronted with actual irrefutable evidence. He would have to have a story to explain his semen being found . He did seem today to try and weave what other witnesses said into his story, so must have changed bits after hearing the prosecution presenting their case last week.
 
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