VERDICT WATCH UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, found deceased, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #24

[ChiCubs2016]

All those mysterious measurments hi hi. I only understand kilos and metres

I googled a conversion. Hope this helps:
14 stone about 89 kilos
28 stone about 178 kilos

 

[ChiCubs2016]

I would like to add, for information, a site to check the moon phase for that night.
www.moonphases.co.uk
I will try to add a screenshot but not sure how.
If I have read correctly:
The moon was just a sliver of a crescent moon and not the full moon mentioned initially by SA, and it did not rise til 4.24 am, so it was no 'moonlit night' at the time that he saw the man running/walking.
And for anyone who has not heard one, the following site will play you just what a screaming vixen sounds like, and you can see how she stands to scream, then moves and stops to scream again etc, just like the witness reported gaps in screaming and that they seemed to be moving.
www.earthtouchnews.com/in the field/backyard-wildlife/video-this-is-what-the-fox-screams.

I'm not aware of any evidence that any of the 3 ORPF witnesses heard LS screaming.

I think it may have appeared to be a full moon as the snow would have made the area look bright. There is an empty field area across the street from my house and I can see a good distance at night when the ground is covered with snow and no moonlight. MOO

 

[sundaaaay]

I don’t think any of the evidence we’ve read gives any indication that he planned to murder that night

His crimes seem opportunistic but they could be more planned than we think. Police said his previous crimes would have to had an element of planning because how would he have known when to enter their houses.

Obviously it was by chance he came across LS that night, but he was planning on finding someone. This could have been a fantasy he played out in his imagination. His previous crimes may have only been voyeurism because the victim wasn’t in the vulnerable position LS was in.

 

[C.greek]

Would the 4 minutes in the third visit be enough time?

It would depend on where the body was left I'd imagine. If he had left her close to the river it would be certainly doable IMO. I don't remember the defence questioning the time, did they?

 

[tedtink]

Would the 4 minutes in the third visit be enough time?

4.5 minutes.
Yes, if he knew where she was.

"Mr Wright said: “What was it about, not only returning to Oak Road, but stopping your car and getting out of it that you wanted to lie to police about?
“If you’re telling the truth about having consensual sex with that girl and not attacking her, what reason did you have to lie about getting out of your car for four and a half minutes?”
Mr Wright said: “What was it about, not only returning to Oak Road, but stopping your car and getting out of it that you wanted to lie to police about?
Relowicz said: “I just didn’t want police to know I had sex with her, I didn’t want my wife to find out and I didn’t want police to know because I didn’t know if it was illegal or not.”
Pawel Relowicz 'returned to Oak Road to clean up after killing Libby'

 

[CoverMeCagney]

4.5 minutes.
Yes, if he knew where she was.

"Mr Wright said: “What was it about, not only returning to Oak Road, but stopping your car and getting out of it that you wanted to lie to police about?
“If you’re telling the truth about having consensual sex with that girl and not attacking her, what reason did you have to lie about getting out of your car for four and a half minutes?”
Mr Wright said: “What was it about, not only returning to Oak Road, but stopping your car and getting out of it that you wanted to lie to police about?
Relowicz said: “I just didn’t want police to know I had sex with her, I didn’t want my wife to find out and I didn’t want police to know because I didn’t know if it was illegal or not.”



Pawel Relowicz 'returned to Oak Road to clean up after killing Libby'

Well, that’s not a proper answer to the question. Was he pressed further? What did he do (or say he did) for 4.5 minutes?

 

[Steve2021]

Google maps tell me the path direct into the river is ~350m.

Even on a 30 second pivot, you'd imagine something would be picked up on that CCTV directly opposite? Going on that dogleg right, would negate the bank, and be better for footing and more closer to the river as per @Vermont24 kind photos. So I don't the timings would be that out from choosing either?



Good question, looking at the picture just posted, it does look very reedy. Could PR just have had blind luck? Doesn't have to be fully in the water, but then luckily tides rise and that helps? I don't know.

Thanks for that. So does your map show the prosecution have quoted the shortest/straight line distance then. I can't recall exactly what they said. We haven't heard that the defence challenged the distance but as best as I recall from watching the Mauri CCTV on my low resolution screen this area was within its field of view...and obviously it didn't show anything. But we haven't heard the defence raise this and suggest it shows PR couldn't have used this shortest route.

 

[tedtink]

Well, that’s not a proper answer to the question. Was he pressed further? What did he do (or say he did) for 4.5 minutes?

"Mr Wright says the account given to the jury is that he left her alive and well, standing on Oak Road.

Relowicz said: “I left Libby Squire on Oak Road and went home and went back there because I was worried she could fall over as she had fallen over on many occasions previously. It was cold, minus two and a half degrees so she could have frozen or something.”

That's about all that was reported including the above post.

Pawel Relowicz 'returned to Oak Road to clean up after killing Libby'

 

[CoverMeCagney]

"Mr Wright says the account given to the jury is that he left her alive and well, standing on Oak Road.

Relowicz said: “I left Libby Squire on Oak Road and went home and went back there because I was worried she could fall over as she had fallen over on many occasions previously. It was cold, minus two and a half degrees so she could have frozen or something.”

That's about all that was reported including the above post.

Pawel Relowicz 'returned to Oak Road to clean up after killing Libby'

Cheers Ted. So he was looking for her two hours later after going home for a nice warm bath, a quick *advertiser censored* sesh and a little jaunt to his favourite wanking spot. How noble of him.

 

[porkypies]

What about if it was by the boathouse?


I’ve just watched drone footage taken this week titled ‘Oak Road playing field Hull’ by a YouTube user called Ben Bell (I don’t know if he’s on here)
His drone footage at ORPF clearly shows the path, bench, pond etc and actually ends right at the riverbank. It may help to see what it was like there during the daytime of 1st Feb 2021 (obviously not how it was on the night of Feb 1st 2019) I’ll post a link if needed but should be easy for you to find using the details I’ve posted.

Very helpful footage, thank you.

 

[Bethan]

When we talk of reeds, I don't think they're what we imagine, ie not thick, stiff, or even a barrier, like pampas grass or bamboo.
They're just grasses and in Feb would be dead so easily walked through and flattened.

In my experience ( though not of this river), the reeds growing by the side of a river/stream grow out of thick mud.

If you step into the reeds, you sink a long way down & it’s difficult to extricate yourself. When you do, you often leave a welly behind!

Forgive me if I’m wrong @tedtink. I don’t know this particular stretch of river but have spent a lifetime messing about around rivers in the north of England!

 

[Steve2021]

Just found it. Prosecution said it was 354.9m to the river, which suggests this is the shortest/straight line distance.

Considering the terrain I can see although the route to the river is a bit longer using the proper path it could be just as quick. But when calculating how long it takes to cover the distance there and back then we'd need to work it out for a distance maybe 10/20m? each way further than the 350 something quoted.

 

[Joolz1975]

Sunday posters? Are they like the online equivalent of Sunday drivers - just having a nice little pootle out to visit a crime forum?

How’s the weather looking overnight / tomorrow, South Yorkshire folks? I keep hearing the “beast from the east” is coming back but no sign of up the road here... really hope it doesn’t delay the trial any further.

Not a sniff of snow here Cags will update when I look out of my window at 6am.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Not a sniff of snow here Cags will update when I look out of my window at 6am.

Thank you Wincey Willis. Looks like it’s forecast to snow overnight and then get heavier late morning. Could go either way a bit like the verdict.

 

[porkypies]

I think it may have appeared to be a full moon as the snow would have made the area look bright. There is an empty field area across the street from my house and I can see a good distance at night when the ground is covered with snow and no moonlight. MOO

Quite, but I am questioning the witness statement, and the ongoing assumption that it is correct. I'm not questioning the snow or the light per se.
And by reasoning that it appeared to be a full moon when there was no moon, one can also reason that those 3 witnesses heard what appeared to be human screaming. As you say about the snow, it gives an impression, and so do screaming foxes.
I think these things should always be questioned to ensure that there are no grounds for a lesser charge or appeal.

Edited to add:

Also: There is plenty of mention in these postings of snow on the ground that night and I take it that this is true (faith) but I do not see snow in any of the cctv footage, or on the streets and roads, I do think I have read that it was very little snow and I imagine that looking much like a layer of frost on the grassy park and not what many people would imagine when told it had been snowing.
Whether it was frost or a little snow in the park, I think this would have taken with it some evidence of scuffles or footprints etc. when it melted and before the police got there.

 

[Joolz1975]

Thank you Wincey Willis. Looks like it’s forecast to snow overnight and then get heavier late morning. Could go either way a bit like the verdict.

I am that confident I will be snowed in tommorow that I have not even sorted my work clothes and lunch out but kind of hope not because i would like Libby's family to get the verdict tommorow.

 

[tigerowl]

Quite, but I am questioning the witness statement, and the ongoing assumption that it is correct. I'm not questioning the snow or the light per se.
And by reasoning that it appeared to be a full moon when there was no moon, one can also reason that those 3 witnesses heard what appeared to be human screaming. As you say about the snow, it gives an impression, and so do screaming foxes.
I think these things should always be questioned to ensure that there are no grounds for a lesser charge or appeal.

Edited to add:

Also: There is plenty of mention in these postings of snow on the ground that night and I take it that this is true (faith) but I do not see snow in any of the cctv footage, or on the streets and roads, I do think I have read that it was very little snow and I imagine that looking much like a layer of frost on the grassy park and not what many people would imagine when told it had been snowing.
Whether it was frost or a little snow in the park, I think this would have taken with it some evidence of scuffles or footprints etc. when it melted and before the police got there.

It doesn't look like it was that snowy on the CCTV but it actually was quite snowy on the night. I remember it as I used to meet my friend every day at 6am for a dog walk and we called it off the night before as it seemed like it was really going to lay. We don't actually get a lot of snow in Hull and very little that settles on the ground so it was notable.

I remember it clearly as to meet my friend, I walk down Haworth Street and past Libby's bench and our meeting point is the opening to the Endsleigh complex. I remember thinking when the news broke later on and the CCTV was released that I pass that exact spot every morning and if it wasn't for the snow I would have walked right by where it happened only a few hours afterwards.

Can't actually remember if it had gone the next morning but it probably had. Like I say, we rarely get laying snow that lasts around here.

 

[Challwood]

Quite, but I am questioning the witness statement, and the ongoing assumption that it is correct. I'm not questioning the snow or the light per se.
And by reasoning that it appeared to be a full moon when there was no moon, one can also reason that those 3 witnesses heard what appeared to be human screaming. As you say about the snow, it gives an impression, and so do screaming foxes.
I think these things should always be questioned to ensure that there are no grounds for a lesser charge or appeal.

Edited to add:

Also: There is plenty of mention in these postings of snow on the ground that night and I take it that this is true (faith) but I do not see snow in any of the cctv footage, or on the streets and roads, I do think I have read that it was very little snow and I imagine that looking much like a layer of frost on the grassy park and not what many people would imagine when told it had been snowing.
Whether it was frost or a little snow in the park, I think this would have taken with it some evidence of scuffles or footprints etc. when it melted and before the police got there.

You can clearly see snow in the cctv footage of Libby outside the Welly Club. New CCTV shows woman who could be missing Libby before disappearance
Witnesses also talk of her laying in the snow on the pavement. The gentlemen coming back from the darts match say it was snowing and Libby was laying in the snow (screenshot taken from Hull Daily Mail article that I’ve linked below ) https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/libby-squire-murder-trial-tragedy-4901597.amp

There is also snow on the ground on the witness appeal cctv from Oak Road. Police explain why no CCTV of missing Libby Squire has been released

I’m not sure how much of this would remain by the time police came to search the playing fields, but at that time it was still a missing persons search and dozens of people would have walked over the park and could well have destroyed evidence.
Edited by me to add further info/link.

 

[Dotta]

His crimes seem opportunistic but they could be more planned than we think. Police said his previous crimes would have to had an element of planning because how would he have known when to enter their houses.

Obviously it was by chance he came across LS that night, but he was planning on finding someone. This could have been a fantasy he played out in his imagination. His previous crimes may have only been voyeurism because the victim wasn’t in the vulnerable position LS was in.

PR reminds me of EARONS and Colonel R (Canada) But they started killing in their 40ties and he is still very young

 

[Ruthbullock]

The Boathouse: Hull’s forgotten, underground, creative hub
I always assumed the boathouse was a place for boating to happen, but it spent many of the more recent years as a pub/club/arts venue. Whilst reading up on its history I discovered a tragic bit if information-1 of the owners passed away by the boathouse in February 2007- he slipped on ice and died of hypothermia. When I first started reading about oak road- I thought it was scrubland, it’s not it’s a 75acre parkland and seems quite popular for a lot of activities. I fell across this whilst also having a look at the CCTV of the 4 people who were in the area between PRs visits- the last newspaper report I could find on it, no one had come forward and identified themselves.