OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #59

[Puzzles8]

Undercurrent of drugs
Something to do with child custody
No main motive has been publicly identified.

Billy was the mastermind....

Lots of questions.

 

[NotHammerToed]

I think it is more telling than odd.

Both Fred and Billy seemed to feel Billy was in great danger after the murders. But why?

Who were the people they were afraid of, and why?

JMO, MOO

firstly let me just clarify that I don’t for a second believe FW about those vests. However, what if she purchased them out of fear of Jake and Angela retaliating against Billy if he didn’t go along with the plan. Just a theory

 

[Cool Cats]

firstly let me just clarify that I don’t for a second believe FW about those vests. However, what if she purchased them out of fear of Jake and Angela retaliating against Billy if he didn’t go along with the plan. Just a theory

Note the vests don't look like they were put in a coat closet to be used, but instead it looks like they were hidden away, certainly this isn't a coat closet or a bedroom closet... Also, they don't look new and never worn. BCI thought they could have been used on the night of the murders so evidently they didn't come across as never worn but Fred said Billy would not wear them except to "humor" her...what? OK then.

Wagner family matriarch asks judge to dismissed perjury, obstruction charges
(BPV photo)

I think it is more telling than odd.

Both Fred and Billy seemed to feel Billy was in great danger after the murders. But why?

Who were the people they were afraid of, and why?

Had Billy stolen something valuable from CRsr? Something someone else was expecting to collect the next day?

Did someone/group feel they get ripped off by the people that murdered the R's?

Both Fred and the W4 "helpfully" named names to LE. Those names could not have been happy they had been cheated and/or implicated in the crime. In addition, the publicity of the crimes had brought BCI, FBI and DeWine to swam the area - for several years. I remember DeWine commented they had discovered lots of crime in the area that had been going on for decades.

When LE figured out who had really murdered the W4 (4/2017), that's when the W4 ran like h*ll out of the area. Maybe because of LE, but IMO more likely because they were afraid of the people they had ripped off and would know who killed the R family.
JMO, MOO

I think they thought Billy was in more danger than the others because FW said:

“I thought that they were going to kill Billy because he was such good friends with Chris Rhoden,” Wagner said. “I thought they killed Chris because he knew something.

A matriarch's fight: Fredericka Wagner denies charges, allegations in Pike County mass murder

As to who were they afraid of?

I think they were afraid of the death threats (mentioned in MSM & Podcast) they were getting including people harassing them like a lady who saw Angela out in public and the lady angrily approached Angela and threw a bottle at her. Even a friend of the family was getting harrassed (mentioned in Podcast).

Pictured, people in laser focus of multiple murder hunt | Daily Mail Online

And yes, I agree, FW gave BCI names of who she suspected and so you know those people would get interviewed and be angry at the Wagners pointing fingers.
Also, FW thought informants were giving misleading information to BCI so basically it's like calling these people "liars."

I think the Wagners got tired of being afraid and "looking over their shoulders." It happened quickly, this fear. In June 2016 Angie was making plans for her farm and had put up a new barn and chicken coop and was planning for more baby pigs to be born etc... Then the next month she was in an extreme hurry to, as she put it, "downsize alot."

...2 Cents....

 

[Puzzles8]

I think the W4 thought they had gotten away with the perfect crime, well, until DeWine announced the killers were likely local.

I think that's when the W4 started making backup plans to get out.

JMO

 

[NotHammerToed]

I think the W4 thought they had gotten away with the perfect crime, well, until DeWine announced the killers were likely local.

I think that's when the W4 started making backup plans to get out.

JMO

Remember in the beginning when they didn’t even have their facebooks private. I remember seeing JW announcing to everyone that he had lost his cell phone and had to create a new Facebook account as a result. That struck me as odd! I’ve never let it go. Turns out that phone was extremely important.

 

[almond]

This talk of fires brought to mind Reader moving the crimes scenes. Maybe he was afraid of them being set on fire because of past history of the Wags? Nah, that would mean he knew who the killers were just a few days after. Oh well.

 

[Betty P]

Note the vests don't look like they were put in a coat closet to be used, but instead it looks like they were hidden away, certainly this isn't a coat closet or a bedroom closet... Also, they don't look new and never worn. BCI thought they could have been used on the night of the murders so evidently they didn't come across as never worn but Fred said Billy would not wear them except to "humor" her...what? OK then.

Wagner family matriarch asks judge to dismissed perjury, obstruction charges
(BPV photo)

I think they thought Billy was in more danger than the others because FW said:

“I thought that they were going to kill Billy because he was such good friends with Chris Rhoden,” Wagner said. “I thought they killed Chris because he knew something.

A matriarch's fight: Fredericka Wagner denies charges, allegations in Pike County mass murder

As to who were they afraid of?

I think they were afraid of the death threats (mentioned in MSM & Podcast) they were getting including people harassing them like a lady who saw Angela out in public and the lady angrily approached Angela and threw a bottle at her. Even a friend of the family was getting harrassed (mentioned in Podcast).

Pictured, people in laser focus of multiple murder hunt | Daily Mail Online

And yes, I agree, FW gave BCI names of who she suspected and so you know those people would get interviewed and be angry at the Wagners pointing fingers.
Also, FW thought informants were giving misleading information to BCI so basically it's like calling these people "liars."

I think the Wagners got tired of being afraid and "looking over their shoulders." It happened quickly, this fear. In June 2016 Angie was making plans for her farm and had put up a new barn and chicken coop and was planning for more baby pigs to be born etc... Then the next month she was in an extreme hurry to, as she put it, "downsize alot."

...2 Cents....

There are no "others" involved in any other activities related to the Rhoden murders. Fred Wagner threw that out there in her news interview to create a distraction, to plant the idea that some mysterious "others" murdered the Rhodens. Its all hokum. Just as it was when Jake and Angela told similar stories when Jake was questioned after after the murders.

Fred Wagner had to come up with some bogus story after BCI found Billy's BPV hidden in a crawlspace in her house. Billy was dumb enough to keep it after the murders instead of destroying it. They had to come up with an excuse for her buying it for his protection. Sure.

Are there some local crackpots on podcasts trying to make up more junk again about this case? Has it ever occurred to anyone that they might be getting some compensation for spreading these rumors? That's why those kind of links aren't allowed.

Billy didn't disappear after the murders. There were no others involved with the Rhode murders. As Gov. Mike DeWine stated after the arrests, the motive was child custody. I would also add domestic abuse - a former partner who committed statutory rape, impregnated an underage girl, then beat and abused her on a regular basis. When she fled back home to her parents, he and his family stalked and threatened her, trying to make her give them full custody of her child. There was a fight and Billy allegedly got beaten by Chris Sr. That's what led to the murders.

No magical disappearing pile of money or drugs. No cartel or terrorists chasing Big Billy into hiding.

All the above is based on statements from LE and prosecutors, as well as evidence submitted in court. If there's any evidence to back up these alternate theories please share.

 

[Betty P]

This talk of fires brought to mind Reader moving the crimes scenes. Maybe he was afraid of them being set on fire because of past history of the Wags? Nah, that would mean he knew who the killers were just a few days after. Oh well.

I sometimes think Reader had a feeling it might have been Jake and family from the start, but was influenced or overruled by other opinions focused on the grow op. The murders were well planned and methodical, most of Ohio had never seen anything quite like that before. Remember, Reader did say from the start that he though the killers were local and for that reason, he probably was concerned with someone setting them on fire or otherwise destroying evidence there. I do hope once the trials are over, Reader sits down for some good interviews with news media. Hope also considers writing a book.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

When the Wagners family lived in Alaska it took a lot of money just to manage a household and they wasn’t working full time, I hope LE prosecute the person that was sending money to Alaska for the Wagners family, even the cousin that was on the podcast saying she was the one that told the Wagners to go to Alaska and that the State of Ohio didn’t have the money to extradite them back to Ohio, if you think about it, for the lady that quoted she was the one telling the Wagners to flee Ohio, if so then the Wagners where telling the family members what happened the night of the murders and why they killed the Rhodens/Gilley family, if it’s true what the know it all lady cousin said then that is admitted quilt, JMO

 

[Betty P]

When the Wagners family lived in Alaska it took a lot of money just to manage a household and they wasn’t working full time, I hope LE prosecute the person that was sending money to Alaska for the Wagners family, even the cousin that was on the podcast saying she was the one that told the Wagners to go to Alaska and that the State of Ohio didn’t have the money to extradite them back to Ohio, if you think about it, for the lady that quoted she was the one telling the Wagners to flee Ohio, if so then the Wagners where telling the family members what happened the night of the murders and why they killed the Rhodens/Gilley family, if it’s true what the know it all lady cousin said then that is admitted quilt, JMO

That podcast sounds like a lot of hokum. Ohio isn't a poor state, they had enough money to extradite the Wags back to Ohio.

Just a friendly reminder that we're not to discuss information gleaned from social media unless the site / podcast/ etc. has been approved by Mods or Tricia. They have approved some in the past, like Gray Hughes, etc. but they have to be approved. TIA

 

[CIA Team Member]

In thinking about the money, I wonder if HR stated the words "child support".
If it wasn't previously in place, and she brought it up, I can't imagine it would have went over well. JMO

If she was receiving any type of government subsidies (medicaid, food support, etc) Friend of the Court mandates the parent to pay support; here they'll attach your wages towards it. Not sure if it's differs by state.

 

[NotHammerToed]

I sometimes think Reader had a feeling it might have been Jake and family from the start, but was influenced or overruled by other opinions focused on the grow op. The murders were well planned and methodical, most of Ohio had never seen anything quite like that before. Remember, Reader did say from the start that he though the killers were local and for that reason, he probably was concerned with someone setting them on fire or otherwise destroying evidence there. I do hope once the trials are over, Reader sits down for some good interviews with news media. Hope also considers writing a book.

that’s one book I wouldn’t be able to put down until the conclusion.

 

[Sillybilly]

There seems to be some question over the Piketon Massacre podcast that is under discussion.

The podcast was approved before:

As the Piketon Massacre podcast has apparently been discussed previously and contains interviews with some of the major case players, it is being approved.

However, please be careful in discussing any rumors that are in the podcast and try to stick to what the actual case players themselves have to say.

I will reapprove posts that were removed earlier today.

Perhaps the above post was not clear. In these one-off approvals, it is not intended to allow discussion of absolutely everything contained in the podcast. When we approve some of these podcasts because they contain interviews with major case players, we usually ask that members stick to discussing only what the interviewer asks and what the person being interviewed responds. All the other content may be the interviewer's opinion or rumor, neither of which WSers should rely on or discuss, even though it is in the podcast.

Too late to stuff the toothpaste back in the tube, but going forward please try to stick to discussing only the interviewer's questions to the case player and the case player's responses.

Sorry if my previous post was not specific enough and caused any confusion.

 

[Cool Cats]

There are no "others" involved in any other activities related to the Rhoden murders. Fred Wagner threw that out there in her news interview to create a distraction, to plant the idea that some mysterious "others" murdered the Rhodens. Its all hokum. Just as it was when Jake and Angela told similar stories when Jake was questioned after after the murders.

Fred Wagner had to come up with some bogus story after BCI found Billy's BPV hidden in a crawlspace in her house. Billy was dumb enough to keep it after the murders instead of destroying it. They had to come up with an excuse for her buying it for his protection. Sure.

Are there some local crackpots on podcasts trying to make up more junk again about this case? Has it ever occurred to anyone that they might be getting some compensation for spreading these rumors? That's why those kind of links aren't allowed.

Billy didn't disappear after the murders. There were no others involved with the Rhode murders. As Gov. Mike DeWine stated after the arrests, the motive was child custody. I would also add domestic abuse - a former partner who committed statutory rape, impregnated an underage girl, then beat and abused her on a regular basis. When she fled back home to her parents, he and his family stalked and threatened her, trying to make her give them full custody of her child. There was a fight and Billy allegedly got beaten by Chris Sr. That's what led to the murders.

No magical disappearing pile of money or drugs. No cartel or terrorists chasing Big Billy into hiding.

All the above is based on statements from LE and prosecutors, as well as evidence submitted in court. If there's any evidence to back up these alternate theories please share.

BBM

"There are no "others" involved in any other activities related to the Rhoden murders. If there's any evidence to back up these alternate theories please share."

I never thought others are involved in the Rhoden Gilley murders and that there are alternate theories.

I believe that during the murder investigation before arrests there were many alternate theories and suspects and persons of interest. LE said they had to follow every lead and there were countless leads and Warrants served. Many people were interviewed and investigated and then ruled out as suspects or persons of interest.

The investigation took time and Canepa said "There was no rush to judgement."
Even with George I got the impression, from George's lawyer, that George wasn't looked at closely until summer of 2017 when they had enough on him to start secretly recording him. He was only interviewed once and that was with his family in Montana.

5 months in, Reader said he thought it was locals but then clarified that as being just one theory of the case, we don't know if he suspected the Wagners or even if BCI did at that point in October 2017.

"Fred Wagner had to come up with some bogus story."

When Fred gave her opinions on who she thought may have been involved, it wasn't necessarily a bogus story to her. She might have really believed what she said, there is no evidence that Fred knew her family did it.

It's to be expected that the 4 Wagners would lie about who did it when talking to their attorney in 2017 and to their attorneys now.

I am sure FW wasn't the only one who had an opinion on who did it, probably everyone they interviewed had an opinion on it, and yes, some did think it involved drugs.

As for drugs, DeWine said there was an undercurrent of drugs but he specifically said he didn't think this led to the murders. Reader said some of the victims were selling marijuana but he did not say it was related to the murders.

The motive was custody, Canepa was very clear about this at the Bond Hearing.

As for custody, George's lawyer made the point that the child involved in the custody dispute was not George's child, this was to establish George had no motive. He said that George and Jake doing everything together is not enough probable cause that George participated in the murders.

https://www.wcpo.com/longform/pike-...lers-in-rhoden-family-homicides-may-be-locals

Was a drug cartel behind the Pike Co. massacre? Rhoden family talks

Officials provide update on Rhoden family murder investigation | 10tv.com

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Why would everything be put up for sale at Defines farm so quick? That was Angela dream home! That alone should have told anyone close to the 4 Wagners something was wrong also Billy was living at his mothers house and just decided to go with the other 3 Wagners to Alaska thousand of miles away from his sick farther, Why? Looks like they where running from something! JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

Why would everything be put up for sale at Defines farm so quick? That was Angela dream home! That alone should have told anyone close to the 4 Wagners something was wrong also Billy was living at his mothers house and just decided to go with the other 3 Wagners to Alaska thousand of miles away from his sick farther, Why? Looks like they where running from something! JMO

Yup! Everything seemed to change for them in July 2016.

As you can see from the Defiance Farm post, Angela acted like everything was totally normal and was all happy on her farm with future plans until later in July when suddenly she says she has to downsize alot which people do when they move away.

Before


Obviously something happened because not only did she sell off all her livestock but they put the house up for sale that September.

Why after the murders did the Wagners live as usual like nothing happened for 3 months and then suddenly decide to get rid of the Peterson Rd. property? Your right that farm was everything to her and she even had a chicken coop built for the children. Something unusual happened for her to get rid of that property.

After


Angela flat out stated that she did not want to sell her livestock but she had to sell due to "family matters" and the "family matters" obviously included Billy because he gave up his cushy life and stopped caring for his sick father to move to AK.

Something spooked them alot in July 2016 and it had to do with the murder investigation and getting far away from BCI in my opinion.

The home where the Wagners lived in Kenai, Alaska

 

[Nanasteele]

Why would everything be put up for sale at Defines farm so quick? That was Angela dream home! That alone should have told anyone close to the 4 Wagners something was wrong also Billy was living at his mothers house and just decided to go with the other 3 Wagners to Alaska thousand of miles away from his sick farther, Why? Looks like they where running from something! JMO

When did his dad pass before or after they moved back?

 

[RAISINISBACK]

This talk of fires brought to mind Reader moving the crimes scenes. Maybe he was afraid of them being set on fire because of past history of the Wags? Nah, that would mean he knew who the killers were just a few days after. Oh well.

Reader did know the day of the murders who killed the victims and why. Lenny told him. Lenny told us all on day 1. He said it was over child custody. Assuming Dana and Chris were not fighting for custody of Chris Jr and we know they were not and Frankie was not fighting for custody of BR it could only be a custody battle over SW. There were no other kids under 18 except RR who was living with both parents and KW who's stated father from Hannah's FB was CG and CG didn't want anything to do with Hannah or the baby. Reader told us also. He said the killers were local. Dewine said on day 1 there was no further threat to the public. Reader, Lenny and Dewine all but told us on day 1. We just had to follow the clues they gave us. That's why the 24/7 security of the crime scenes. Then he moved them so they would be harder to get to. JMO

ETA: I don't have the link to Lenny's first interview but I am sure Betty or CC might.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

When did his dad pass before or after they moved back?

Bob Wagner past away in the fall of 2017 the 4 Wagners came back to Pike County Ohio in the spring of 2018, JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

@Johnny B Bad

I think Angela might be sick:

02/12/2021
DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO PERMIT TRAVEL FOR MEDICAL PURPOSES FILED (VIA FAX) Attorney: KRAPENC, ROBERT F

02/12/2021
ORDER -- UPON MOTION OF DEFENDANT, AND FOR GOOD CAUSE SHOWN, THE MOTION TO ALLOW TRAVEL FOR MEDICAL PURPOSES IS GRANTED COPIES FILED MAILED TO COUNSEL