Netflix - Elisa Lam

[whatwhatchickenbutt]

I had not heard of this case till the Netflix doc either, but now it has me fascinated.

I have a couple of questions/points.

• Ok, say she had a psychotic break. How in the world could she have figured out how to get onto the roof and into a water tank? It seemed rather complicated to get up to the tanks, under some pipes and such, to the tank where she was found. I don't know what it's like to have a "psychotic episode" but logic dictates that she may have run screaming through the hotel but...to have the presence of mind to get out the window, up the fire escape, and somehow find the water tank? It would have made more sense for her, at that point (assuming the psychotic break was the case and she weren't in her right mind) to have leapt off the roof as opposed to finding that tank.
• OTOH, how could someone else have carried her up there? I have also never tried to carry someone up a ladder - maybe it happens in the movies - but in real life by a real person, it seems like a pretty difficult maneuver.
• The singer had anything to do with it. He wasn't even there and proved it in several ways. His music/persona was simply an affect/act to sell records to a specific audience. Not unlike a Marilyn Manson or Ozzy Osbourne. Unusual to some, sure, but it doesn't make him a murderer. I am all for webslueting like we do, responsibly, but for the people who sent death threats to a guy who just happened to stay at the Cecil a full year prior is just wrong.
• I can't find the post now, but someone asked why she would remove her bra and underwear if she were trying to tread water and her clothing was bogging her down. Did they recover a bra and underwear? It seems she was wearing a sweat top and sweat shorts in the elevator video. It is possible that she may have not had either on under her sweats.
• Did they definitively say her death was "drowning?". If so, I missed that. If she died from drowning (accidental or otherwise) then, well, obviously she was alive when she went in.

I think AutumFalls is pretty close. That she perhaps died - or someone thought she had died - accidentally somehow, and that someone panicked. The problem there goes back to "how did a person get a literal dead weight up that ladder?" unless there was more than one person. I fully expected them to find drugs or alcohol in her system, as that's where I was headed. I figured "There were people partying up there, someone invited her, and she overdosed accidentally or something else happened accidentally. The rest panicked." If that were the case, it would almost have to be assumed that there were hotel employees up there. I have done that. Not murder/hiding bodies of course, but I used to work at a hotel and we had keys to the secret spots. We'd sneak up to the roof and drink or smoke pot. Ok - I was in my early 20's, don't judge. But, toxicology report says no drugs other than her own prescription, no alcohol. Again though...what layperson (Elisa or anyone else) not affiliated with that particular hotel would know where the water tanks were? Or even if they were water tanks? I wouldn't know a water tank if I saw one. Could Elisa have been running from someone and thought she would "hide" not knowing the thing was full of water? Thinking it was maybe a - I don't know - escape route of some kind? I just can't see her figuring out how to get there on her own unless she did it in a completely lucid state with intent. And I don't see that either.

And what is up with her name, reversed, being the name of the Tuberculosis study/test/whatever? That's supposed to be a "coincidence"?

But man...those guests in the hotel drinking the water...yikes. That actually brings up another point. Assume she was in the tank the full 19 days since she went missing. Why didn't someone notice/report bad water pressure/bad smell prior?

And to add a bit of levity to an otherwise gruesome situation, I had to literally laugh when they said they plan to "...convert one half of the hotel into low income housing and the other half into a luxury hotel." In my 30 years in business, that has to be the absolute worst marketing decision I have ever heard.

Still too many questions, say I.

Might be a climbing thing. Like autism. I like to wander when I'm kinda out of it. She might like to climb. You really don't need to know where to go. Frame it with a disorganized mind. The rest is just blah blah blah. (Baby talk). That she was naked? Well, people having psychotic breaks? Not always, but often found nude. The girl was having a psychotic break. Clearly seen on the video. Happening at a hotel where obviously it's not well maintained, she got past people, at some point probably nobody looked in the silo and shut the damn thing. Bc yes, that's the party spot in the building. DO you think they're gonna later fess up to that and be potentially convicted of murder? Hell NO.

 

[whatwhatchickenbutt]

This one is not worth chasing. Not to me at least. Too much crazy.

 

[sony12]

This one is not worth chasing. Not to me at least. Too much crazy.

Yep. Anytime there is drugs (or people who need to be medicated and aren't) involved then not much point in spending too much time on it.

 

[Kell1]

Same can literally be said about many amateur detectives on the internet. Many are in it more for the thrills than the facts.

To be honest I completely buy the idea that she was suffering a breakdown due to not taking her meds properly. The video clearly shows someone who is not in their right mind. Bipolar people who aren't properly medicated do a lot of things that don't make any sense.

Couldnt agree more

 

[Blanche]

True and people like John Lordan are at least somewhat respectable. However they are still part of the overall problem of the online sleuthing culture in that they have no credentials to be doing what they are trying to do. They literally are just a person with a computer cam who decided to start making videos.

exactly that is what they are

 

[dotr]

 

[Watch_Dog]

I’ve only just seen the video of Elisa in the elevator. It certainly seems something is going on with her. The thing I’m interested in is the time stamp. If anyone remembers the old TV’s and when you used the V-shift or H-shift tuning knobs? The time stamp is just an overlay, could the black time stamp have been nothing more than an incorrectly tuned stamp encoder? If you look at it, it looks like the black has been wrapped around in front of the white due to it being shifted off the left of the screen. Everything lines up perfectly if you slide the black writing to the left and superimpose it over the white time stamp again. Thoughts?

 

[Sarahlou]

Same can literally be said about many amateur detectives on the internet. Many are in it more for the thrills than the facts.

To be honest I completely buy the idea that she was suffering a breakdown due to not taking her meds properly. The video clearly shows someone who is not in their right mind. Bipolar people who aren't properly medicated do a lot of things that don't make any sense.

Same here. I think this is a clear case of someone who isn't medicating properly having a breakdown and dying as a result of that. I do not think she was murdered.
It's a sad case.

 

[Kell1]

Theres an old saying we in LE ascribe to the media

"Never let the truth get in the way of a good story"

 

[victoriaaglezz]

At first i thought it was a mental breakdown and that she wasn´t murdered but there too many weird detaills that nobody understnads...Like nobody knows how she died...?

 

[MsBetsy]

At first i thought it was a mental breakdown and that she wasn´t murdered but there too many weird detaills that nobody understnads...Like nobody knows how she died...?

The COD was drowning with Bipolar Disorder listed as a significant factor.

I think the Netflix Documentary was just a review of the case and the many conspiracy theories. There was never any evidence to point to her being murdered. It was a very sad and tragic accident.

Imo

 

[MeganLorraineG]

Ok so my husband and I were re watching the doc... he suggested to me the girls in her room that complained about her, of course I was like ok so what? He pitched to me that maybe the girls invited her out to mess with her because if we go back to her blog posts she talks about being more outgoing. Maybe the girls that roomed with her thought it would be funny to get her on the roof as a prank and get her to get into the tank and then didnt realize she wouldnt be able to get out and that may have been who she was talking to at the elevator, if she was scared of a man or whoever after her she wouldnt be turned around talking to them but if it was the girls, she would know them well enough to talk to them and they way she was counting on her fingers could have been something she was angry with the girls at. The girls complained about her and they kind of were at odds with each other so I think its possible.

This would explain why she was missing for almost 3 weeks without extreme water decomp, they were right she undressed to tread water as best she could. This would also explain why she was had additional meds, she wasnt taking them while in the tank obviously and could explain how the lid was closed and she had no outside injuries.

Its out there but an explanation I had not heard before and kinda makes sense

 

[sony12]

Ok so my husband and I were re watching the doc... he suggested to me the girls in her room that complained about her, of course I was like ok so what? He pitched to me that maybe the girls invited her out to mess with her because if we go back to her blog posts she talks about being more outgoing. Maybe the girls that roomed with her thought it would be funny to get her on the roof as a prank and get her to get into the tank and then didnt realize she wouldnt be able to get out and that may have been who she was talking to at the elevator, if she was scared of a man or whoever after her she wouldnt be turned around talking to them but if it was the girls, she would know them well enough to talk to them and they way she was counting on her fingers could have been something she was angry with the girls at. The girls complained about her and they kind of were at odds with each other so I think its possible.

This would explain why she was missing for almost 3 weeks without extreme water decomp, they were right she undressed to tread water as best she could. This would also explain why she was had additional meds, she wasnt taking them while in the tank obviously and could explain how the lid was closed and she had no outside injuries.

Its out there but an explanation I had not heard before and kinda makes sense

I honestly just think the girls in her room thought she was crazy and so they complained and she was sent to a new room. Don't think there is anything more to do with roommates than what we have heard.

 

[MsBetsy]

Ok so my husband and I were re watching the doc... he suggested to me the girls in her room that complained about her, of course I was like ok so what? He pitched to me that maybe the girls invited her out to mess with her because if we go back to her blog posts she talks about being more outgoing. Maybe the girls that roomed with her thought it would be funny to get her on the roof as a prank and get her to get into the tank and then didnt realize she wouldnt be able to get out and that may have been who she was talking to at the elevator, if she was scared of a man or whoever after her she wouldnt be turned around talking to them but if it was the girls, she would know them well enough to talk to them and they way she was counting on her fingers could have been something she was angry with the girls at. The girls complained about her and they kind of were at odds with each other so I think its possible.

This would explain why she was missing for almost 3 weeks without extreme water decomp, they were right she undressed to tread water as best she could. This would also explain why she was had additional meds, she wasnt taking them while in the tank obviously and could explain how the lid was closed and she had no outside injuries.

Its out there but an explanation I had not heard before and kinda makes sense

Her roommates did not have anything to do with her death. I don't think they even saw her that night.

The body was in the 'bloat' stage when it was found, which is consistent to being in water or a cool environment with no insect or animal activity for two or three weeks. The cold water would have slowed the process. Imo

The low levels of her meds indicated that she had not been taking her meds regularly 'before' she ever entered the tank. She could not have survived much longer than a few hours treading water. LE found a significant amount of medication left over, there was nothing to indicate she had just skipped one day.

According to her sister, she had a history of not taking her meds as prescribed, as well as a history of pyschosis and hallucinations, which would explain why she might have been terrified and trying to hide.

Imo

 

[anonypotomous]

Same can literally be said about many amateur detectives on the internet. Many are in it more for the thrills than the facts.

To be honest I completely buy the idea that she was suffering a breakdown due to not taking her meds properly. The video clearly shows someone who is not in their right mind. Bipolar people who aren't properly medicated do a lot of things that don't make any sense.

I'm honestly embarrassed for the conspiracy theorists here on WS, and on the Netflix doc.

 

[anonypotomous]

Yep. It was a good program but I don't think they should have given the YouTube personalities as much attention as they did. If their reason for putting them on the show was to indicate how over the top and toxic these people can often be you aren't going to solve that problem by giving them a lot of focus on a Netflix show. You are only going to encourage more people to throw their over the top opinions around on the internet.

100%!

 

[TessDeco]

Snipped for focus:

John Lordan isn't terrible but pretty much all he does is pull up webpages and gives his opinions about what they say on camera. ThatChapter is entertaining but he literally just reads about cases that are largely finished already. And we don't even need to get into the hair and makeup gals who often try to plug their hair and makeup products during the videos they do.

Giving these people time on Netflix is only going to encourage more people to go by themselves a camera.

In the Netflix documentary, John Lordan seemed so surprised about the water tank hatch being found open? But, Santiago Lopez testified to that fact back in 2015 at the wrongful death lawsuit, filed by the Lam family against the Cecil Hotel. The info was so easy to find this.

"I noticed the hatch to the main water tank was open and looked inside and saw an Asian woman lying face-up in the water approximately twelve inches from the top of the tank," he said.

Did Lordan just not believe Mr. Lopez?
It was strange.

Cecil Hotel Employee Explains How He Found The Body Of Elisa Lam

 

[ryanmarieee]

I am just watching this documentary now, and after reading through this thread I feel like I am left with more questions about the documentary than the case.

I have personal experience with people who suffer from both bipolar disorder and schizophrenia and can definitely see that playing a huge role in what happened to Elisa. If you listen to someone who has dealt with psychosis, the hallucinations and stuff can seem very real and convincing. They may hallucinate someone and not be able to tell if they are actually real or not. So there may have been someone chasing her in her mind. This hallucination could have threatened or told her to get into the tank, etc. You have no idea what hallucinations are capable of. A lof of the people that are analysis what she did keep saying things like "logic" and "doesn't make sense". But it wouldn't make any sense to anyone who wasn't seeing her hallucinations (which is ALL of us).

It seemed like Elisa was very transparent on her tumblr so if she had experimented with drugs or anything like that I feel like she would have hinted about it on there, or at least talked about her struggle with it. Hallucinations are still my top "culprit".

If I'm using the documentary as "accurate" evidence, the hotel manager just seems like someone who has enjoyed the spotlight from the unfortunate events of the Cecil. Like, why did she call her mom before the cops? That just seems like, stupid?

If bad things regularly happened here, why weren't there more security measures taken like cameras in the hallways, etc.?

In regards to the open lid/closed lid thing, I can see it being realistic that he may have closed the door after he found her and couldn't really recall, or just that being a total miscommunication in whole.

My interested in this was peaked at the beginning but as I digest this, I don't think there is much to uncover.

 

[uburoi1]

Unwatchable.

 

[MOMisery1853]

Hoping someone can provide some clarification for me on this, just because my knowledge on it is nil:

Do elevator system have a system log / history that is stored when interaction with the system happens? Is it possible, or worth trying, to pull logs off of the elevator system to shed light on which floor an elevator is called to, what buttons are pressed, whether to door closes and the car moves and goes to which floor? Just thinking out loud but this could have helped with the determination of whether or not someone was holding the elevator at the floor by pushing the call button, thus not allowing it to travel. Based on the information presented it was stated that she probably pushed the door hold button but at least, again if possible, would have shed some light.

Just curious.