Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #5

[RedHaus]

Perhaps the sleuths who provided those details can remind us where they found them.

They always planned to rehome the puppies, from the birth on, but it took Esther and Dan quite a while to do so. All info is on the blog. If I knew how to navigate that blog, I'd be rich. I'll have to find another way to hit the jackpot, but from memory: two puppies stayed with a family next door in Spain from 8 weeks on, two found a home with friends in France much later, and three are with family in the UK.

Well @Puzzles, @ZaZara, and @stmarysmead, call me crazy, but I just spent the last several hours combing through the ED / DC blogs, their joint FB page and ED's FB page (I am not on Instagram) trying to piece together their dog story. Forgive me, I did the best I could to source this information but it is from many places.

This is not complete, but here is what I can confirm:

• During January 2017 (Pup Count = 7)
  • Leela (Mama dog) was adopted early January 2017 in Spain
  • Leela give birth to 6 puppies at the end of January 2017 (George, Bella, Teddy, Jess, Rose and Patti)
• By end of April 2017 (Pup Count = 5)
  • 2 puppies were given to "other families"*, "amazing new homes" and DC/ED were able to visit Jess (in San Jose) and Teddy (in France) over the years*
• By mid-May 2020 (Pup Count = 4)
  • George had gone to ED's mum and dad's home and Patti was still with the pack (see pic on ED's FB page, 16/5/2020)
  • ED's FB page, 13/05/2020: "George isn't currently here with the pack.... he's been living with my mum and dad..."
• By mid-July 2020 (Pup Count = 3)
  • Patti had gone to ED's mum and dad's home (see 14/7/2020 DC/ED FB post - they are in the UK, their new tent and with George and Patti)
  • Olive Press Puppy Love article*, 19/11/2020: "I convinced my mum that Patti and George would inject some energy... so they live there now."

Whether the remaining three dogs, Leela (Mama), Bella and Rose were with DC when ED disappeared is not clear to me after this research. It is possible they were since there is no mention in their social media of those dogs going anywhere. And when ED said in her 13/11/2020 post on own FB page, "right now for one reason or another I'm separated from these wonderful dogs", I wonder if she is talking about her own separation from the dogs and not implying they were all given away.

Anyhow, not sure this adds anything to our sleuthing here. But since we keep circling around the 'pup facts' I thought I'd try to clear up any confusion.

And perhaps it is important to point out in addition to the BBC article about ED / DC on 22/11, the Olive Press Puppy Love* article came out 19/11, three days before the BBC article. That is A LOT of publicity just before ED disappeared... and clearly ED and DC were marketing their books leading up to those big stories being published.

* PUPPY LOVE: Meet the five pooches travelling through Spain in a second-hand motorhome - Olive Press News Spain

 

[ZaZara]

Well @Puzzles, @ZaZara, and @stmarysmead, call me crazy, but I just spent the last several hours combing through the ED / DC blogs, their joint FB page and ED's FB page (I am not on Instagram) trying to piece together their dog story. Forgive me, I did the best I could to source this information but it is from many places.

This is not complete, but here is what I can confirm:

• During January 2017 (Pup Count = 7)
  • Leela (Mama dog) was adopted early January 2017 in Spain
  • Leela give birth to 6 puppies at the end of January 2017 (George, Bella, Teddy, Jess, Rose and Patti)
• By end of April 2017 (Pup Count = 5)
  • 2 puppies were given to "other families"*, "amazing new homes" and DC/ED were able to visit Jess (in San Jose) and Teddy (in France) over the years*
• By mid-May 2020 (Pup Count = 4)
  • George had gone to ED's mum and dad's home and Patti was still with the pack (see pic on ED's FB page, 16/5/2020)
  • ED's FB page, 13/05/2020: "George isn't currently here with the pack.... he's been living with my mum and dad..."
• By mid-July 2020 (Pup Count = 3)
  • Patti had gone to ED's mum and dad's home (see 14/7/2020 DC/ED FB post - they are in the UK, their new tent and with George and Patti)
  • Olive Press Puppy Love article*, 19/11/2020: "I convinced my mum that Patti and George would inject some energy... so they live there now."

Whether the remaining three dogs, Leela (Mama), Bella and Rose were with DC when ED disappeared is not clear to me after this research. It is possible they were since there is no mention in their social media of those dogs going anywhere. And when ED said in her 13/11/2020 post on own FB page, "right now for one reason or another I'm separated from these wonderful dogs", I wonder if she is talking about her own separation from the dogs and not implying they were all given away.

Anyhow, not sure this adds anything to our sleuthing here. But since we keep circling around the 'pup facts' I thought I'd try to clear up any confusion.

And perhaps it is important to point out in addition to the BBC article about ED / DC on 22/11, the Olive Press Puppy Love* article came out 19/11, three days before the BBC article. That is A LOT of publicity just before ED disappeared... and clearly ED and DC were marketing their books leading up to those big stories being published.

* PUPPY LOVE: Meet the five pooches travelling through Spain in a second-hand motorhome - Olive Press News Spain

Hi. Like I said, I have great trouble searching the blog and not even the search engine of that blog helps. Plus they have their other social media. So while I was browsing for other reason than getting to know them, I remember stumbling upon pictures of a location in France where two of their pups went to live. I remember thinking it was interesting that they placed their dogs in duo's with friends or family. I wasn't surprised that they ended up doing that because I have fostered dogs and it was the hardest thing to hand them over to their forever families. Usually, I had the support of a charity who selected the new families and while I had some say in the matter, the final decision was theirs. The one time that I had to do the entire process alone, well, they are still here and one is currently asleep in my bed.
I digress
Tried to find those posts for days now and I do not manage. IMO there is info about the dogs that their search engine does not bring up. Navigating that website reminds me a lot about when I first came to WS (the previous website) and had no idea how it all worked but you could click on cases at the bottom of a page and then you would land somewhere new. Took a while, but I figured out how it did work and it was in fact very organized, but to my great frustration, I still have not managed to find out how it all works on the blog of Esther and Dan.

That said, I am very much impressed how they handled it all, and while the dogs loved being on the road with them, they were also happier when they had the space of a house with a garden and this supported Esther and Dan to finally find homes for them because it was for their best. Of course they miss them but I was under the impression that the arrangement with their families was not that final ~ you never know how it turns out of course.

IMO the pup count has very little to do with the fact that Esther has gone missing, a fatal accident remains my first theory and I hope she is found soon once the snow melts.

 

[PeggyHenry]

Well @Puzzles, @ZaZara, and @stmarysmead, call me crazy, but I just spent the last several hours combing through the ED / DC blogs, their joint FB page and ED's FB page (I am not on Instagram) trying to piece together their dog story. Forgive me, I did the best I could to source this information but it is from many places.

This is not complete, but here is what I can confirm:

• During January 2017 (Pup Count = 7)
  • Leela (Mama dog) was adopted early January 2017 in Spain
  • Leela give birth to 6 puppies at the end of January 2017 (George, Bella, Teddy, Jess, Rose and Patti)
• By end of April 2017 (Pup Count = 5)
  • 2 puppies were given to "other families"*, "amazing new homes" and DC/ED were able to visit Jess (in San Jose) and Teddy (in France) over the years*
• By mid-May 2020 (Pup Count = 4)
  • George had gone to ED's mum and dad's home and Patti was still with the pack (see pic on ED's FB page, 16/5/2020)
  • ED's FB page, 13/05/2020: "George isn't currently here with the pack.... he's been living with my mum and dad..."
• By mid-July 2020 (Pup Count = 3)
  • Patti had gone to ED's mum and dad's home (see 14/7/2020 DC/ED FB post - they are in the UK, their new tent and with George and Patti)
  • Olive Press Puppy Love article*, 19/11/2020: "I convinced my mum that Patti and George would inject some energy... so they live there now."

Whether the remaining three dogs, Leela (Mama), Bella and Rose were with DC when ED disappeared is not clear to me after this research. It is possible they were since there is no mention in their social media of those dogs going anywhere. And when ED said in her 13/11/2020 post on own FB page, "right now for one reason or another I'm separated from these wonderful dogs", I wonder if she is talking about her own separation from the dogs and not implying they were all given away.

Anyhow, not sure this adds anything to our sleuthing here. But since we keep circling around the 'pup facts' I thought I'd try to clear up any confusion.

And perhaps it is important to point out in addition to the BBC article about ED / DC on 22/11, the Olive Press Puppy Love* article came out 19/11, three days before the BBC article. That is A LOT of publicity just before ED disappeared... and clearly ED and DC were marketing their books leading up to those big stories being published.

* PUPPY LOVE: Meet the five pooches travelling through Spain in a second-hand motorhome - Olive Press News Spain

That’s a great summary of the information regarding the dogs.
My initial thoughts on the dogs were to wonder whether DC was living with any of the dogs at the time Esther went missing. It would have limited his being able to leave the ‘house-sit’ at the drop of a hat to travel to the Pyrenees. He would have needed to find care for the dogs first.
Again it is still not absolutely certain that Lrela, Bella and Rose were present with DC at that time but the research gives a really clear picture up until that sort of time period.

Losing dogs for whatever reason is emotional as they give so much love and support, and in turn are loved as family members.We get so attached to them as individual characters. If Esther was struggling emotionally then having the dogs gradually be re-homed wouldn’t be easy.

 

[PeggyHenry]

not sure if we came to conclusion about the Sweden posts on Facebook
Apologies if we did in an earlier thread .. but briefly:

looking at her post locations for Facebook:
nov 8th Sundsvall Sweden
Nov 9th Aragnout
Nov 10th Aragnouet
Nov 11th no location
Nov 12 th post SUndsvall Sweden

I have read you can automatically have locations assigned on posts by switching location services on on your device, then giving Facebook permission to use it ... or you can add them to existing posts manually.


I have just looked up problems with Facebook locations for posts and see that quite a few people report incorrect location reporting .. i.e wrong countries etc. So probably this was what happened. Someone reported location of Nigeria was used when he was in USA so it seems to be a known problem that can occur.

on that basis it would be interesting to know if she was in same location on 8th and 12th November and where she actually was... on both days her Facebook post location was Sundsvall.

 

[stmarysmead]

not sure if we came to conclusion about the Sweden posts on Facebook
Apologies if we did in an earlier thread .. but briefly:

looking at her post locations for Facebook:
nov 8th Sundsvall Sweden
Nov 9th Aragnout
Nov 10th Aragnouet
Nov 11th no location
Nov 12 th post SUndsvall Sweden

I have read you can automatically have locations assigned on posts by switching location services on on your device, then giving Facebook permission to use it ... or you can add them to existing posts manually.


I have just looked up problems with Facebook locations for posts and see that quite a few people report incorrect location reporting .. i.e wrong countries etc. So probably this was what happened. Someone reported location of Nigeria was used when he was in USA so it seems to be a known problem that can occur.

on that basis it would be interesting to know if she was in same location on 8th and 12th November and where she actually was... on both days her Facebook post location was Sundsvall.

From the dossier:


“Nov 3/– 7/– Returns to motorhome on 3rd and relocates to Ainsa. Weather is unsettled so she spends most of her time near the motorhome. The forecast is for the good weather to return in a few days and she has been invited to go hiking with some people she met on the ‘30/10-2/11’ hike, so she waits


8/11 - Goes hiking to Pic Turbon with the people she met during the ‘30/10 - 2/11’ hike.


12/11 – 13/11 – Overnight trip from Benasque with the girl she met on Pic Turbon.

Esther hiked three times with this friend or friends. First from Oct 30 to Nov 2....then, although the weather is bad, she waits several days in the van instead of going home, to hike with her/them again.

She hikes again with them on the 8th and location data changes.

And she’s with her/them again on 12/11 when that same location status change happens again.


The media has talked to the man who gave her a ride, someone who helped her in the supermarket, a new friend to whom she confessed her relationship problems...but these friends that spent so much time with her, we hear nothing about them or from them.

Just another curious detail.

 

[stmarysmead]

In order to follow Esther’s time with her new friends, we need to read backward from her posts. It’s confusing...so please correct any very possible mistakes. But it appears she not only spent a lot of time with this friend/friends...but waited around in order to do so.

(Her Nov 7 post

She mentions these new friends and her 4 day hike with them, starting on Oct30 to Nov2.

The dossier tells us that the weather turns but she waits days in order to hike with them again.

That second hike would have been on Nov 8..

(On her Nov 12 post

She mentions first visiting Egea and Trubon on the Sunday before... which would have been Sunday Nov 8. On that Sunday, Nov 8 she summits the mountain with her new friend/friends. Then she says that she repeatedly summits the same mountain three days in a row...different paths. No mention whether she’s still with these friends.

But she’s with this new friend again....on Nov 12. Then she and new friend have an “overnight trip” (dossier) She mentions their time by the fire and the jacket potato.

Then on the 15th, she “got the opportunity” to try climbing. She’s in a picture with others. Are these the new friends again, and that’s how she got this opportunity?

She seems to have spent a lot of time with the same people.

A week later, she disappears.

 

[jenpil]

a new friend to whom she confessed her relationship problems...

Does this strike you as odd that she's offloading personal problems to people she's just met? Over-sharing, is that the term? Would other hikers and holiday-makers really want to hear that?

I personally wouldn't burden anyone I'd just met with talk of all that, but it sounds like it must've been at the forefront of her mind and she needed to offload and verbalize it ASAP.

Which again, makes me question her state of mind. Everything she'd known for the last few years was gradually falling down and coming to an end and she was delaying, and delaying as much time as she could in the mountains, to such a late date it became too close to winter.

It does sound like Esther had severe problems facing reality and making forthright decisions. MOO.

 

[PeggyHenry]

From the dossier:


“Nov 3/– 7/– Returns to motorhome on 3rd and relocates to Ainsa. Weather is unsettled so she spends most of her time near the motorhome. The forecast is for the good weather to return in a few days and she has been invited to go hiking with some people she met on the ‘30/10-2/11’ hike, so she waits


8/11 - Goes hiking to Pic Turbon with the people she met during the ‘30/10 - 2/11’ hike.


12/11 – 13/11 – Overnight trip from Benasque with the girl she met on Pic Turbon.

Esther hiked three times with this friend or friends. First from Oct 30 to Nov 2....then, although the weather is bad, she waits several days in the van instead of going home, to hike with her/them again.

She hikes again with them on the 8th and location data changes.

And she’s with her/them again on 12/11 when that same location status change happens again.


The media has talked to the man who gave her a ride, someone who helped her in the supermarket, a new friend to whom she confessed her relationship problems...but these friends that spent so much time with her, we hear nothing about them or from them.

Just another curious detail.

it is curious. So on both occasions (8th and 12 th )she is with the new friend/ friends although her actual hiking location is different. But on both occasions Facebook post shows Swedish location. Strange unless she stays in the same resting place overnight and writes up her Facebook posts there.
Strange we haven’t heard from this friend / friends although I guess not everyone wants their story to be in the media.
Sounds like Esther was keen on these friends.

 

[Sarahlou]

Does this strike you as odd that she's offloading personal problems to people she's just met? Over-sharing, is that the term? Would other hikers and holiday-makers really want to hear that?

I personally wouldn't burden anyone I'd just met with talk of all that, but it sounds like it must've been at the forefront of her mind and she needed to offload and verbalize it ASAP.

Which again, makes me question her state of mind. Everything she'd known for the last few years was gradually falling down and coming to an end and she was delaying, and delaying as much time as she could in the mountains, to such a late date it became too close to winter.

It does sound like Esther had severe problems facing reality and making forthright decisions. MOO.

Some people are just like that. They can tell you their life story as soon as you meet them! I wouldn't necessarily read too much into that.

 

[RickshawFan]

In order to follow Esther’s time with her new friends, we need to read backward from her posts. It’s confusing...so please correct any very possible mistakes. But it appears she not only spent a lot of time with this friend/friends...but waited around in order to do so.

(Her Nov 7 post

She mentions these new friends and her 4 day hike with them, starting on Oct30 to Nov2.

The dossier tells us that the weather turns but she waits days in order to hike with them again.

That second hike would have been on Nov 8..

(On her Nov 12 post

She mentions first visiting Egea and Trubon on the Sunday before... which would have been Sunday Nov 8. On that Sunday, Nov 8 she summits the mountain with her new friend/friends. Then she says that she repeatedly summits the same mountain three days in a row...different paths. No mention whether she’s still with these friends.

But she’s with this new friend again....on Nov 12. Then she and new friend have an “overnight trip” (dossier) She mentions their time by the fire and the jacket potato.

Then on the 15th, she “got the opportunity” to try climbing. She’s in a picture with others. Are these the new friends again, and that’s how she got this opportunity?

She seems to have spent a lot of time with the same people.

A week later, she disappears.

This all tells me we really don't know how ED was spending her time. There are so many gaps.

 

[ZaZara]

Does this strike you as odd that she's offloading personal problems to people she's just met? Over-sharing, is that the term? Would other hikers and holiday-makers really want to hear that?

I personally wouldn't burden anyone I'd just met with talk of all that, but it sounds like it must've been at the forefront of her mind and she needed to offload and verbalize it ASAP.

Which again, makes me question her state of mind. Everything she'd known for the last few years was gradually falling down and coming to an end and she was delaying, and delaying as much time as she could in the mountains, to such a late date it became too close to winter.

It does sound like Esther had severe problems facing reality and making forthright decisions. MOO.

Some people are just like that. They can tell you their life story as soon as you meet them! I wouldn't necessarily read too much into that.

Happens all the time, and while some persons are not in for it, unburdening to strangers has great advantages. They haven't met you before, they do not know you and you will probably never see them again. (Unlike your mother or your friends.) So you can tell them anything, they have no way of knowing if there is truth in it or not. You can be anyone you like. You can tell the same story once over, the one that family and friends are tired of hearing. But for the stranger you met a few hours ago, all is new.

The pilgrimage route to Santiago de Compostela in Western Spain is called the world's largest therapeutic highway (or something similar) for a reason!

IMO Esther and Dan lived in a very close union, both emotionally and in this small space of the campervan. They managed to do this because they were very much aware that they also needed time and space to each find their own person again. Meditation was one way they did that, taking time apart was another way. Speaking with outsiders about what is on your mind is a healthy thing to do in this respect.

 

[Puzzles]

Happens all the time, and while some persons are not in for it, unburdening to strangers has great advantages.

Respectfully snipped and BBM.

Off topic:
Sobbing on the side of a road from a terrifying experience, a taxi driver stopped and asked if he could drive me somewhere.
"Yes, to the airport. Please."
My rational mind wasn't available to consider any potential stranger-danger, nor the cost of a taxi fare for a 20-mile drive.

"If you want to talk about what has happened to you, I will listen."

He pulled over and asked if he could teach me something.
Laying back the driver's seat, he told me to sit crossed legged, back straight, then he took up the same position, facing me.

"This is very simple. And it will help you. Look at the tip of your nose, and try to take long, slow breaths. I will tell you when one minute has passed."

I stopped trembling. My mind and my body calmed.

"What is the mystery of you. What is the secret ?" I asked.

He took a fat book from the passenger’s seat, holding it up for me to see the Arabic writing on the cover.

“ Will you tell me some words from that book please?” I asked, taking my journal and pen from my coat pocket.

“ I will tell you all you need to know.

When ever you have a problem, kneel, and then talk.

Imagine you are talking to God.

If you can’t imagine that, pretend you are talking to a big love.

If you have no faith, pretend you do.

Ask for help, whenever you need help.

It will come.

That’s all. That is all there is to know, about this book and about life."

And yes, I think you've already guessed that when we arrived at the airport he would not accept payment for the fare.

I unburdened to a stranger, and received from him two profound and priceless gifts.

Thank you, Stranger.
Thank you, Great Love.

 

[jenpil]

But remember, this taxi driver could just as equally taken advantage of you. It has happened to many. You were lucky.

 

[Satchie]

But remember, this taxi driver could just as equally taken advantage of you. It has happened to many. You were lucky.

The whole point of taxis, the world over, is that it is not like getting a ride from a random person. They are licensed, they are identified by their car number, by their name inside the car, and by their dispatch manager who always knows where they are. If they ever get reported for exploiting someone, to any degree, their career is over.

You may as well be afraid the pharmacist will give you poison, or the electrician will plant a bomb in your house.

 

[stmarysmead]

This all tells me we really don't know how ED was spending her time. There are so many gaps.

Perfect summary.

I don’t think Dan knows for sure how she was spending her time either.

 

[RickshawFan]

Perfect summary.

I don’t think Dan knows for sure how she was spending her time either.

It doesn't seem as though she was even hiking that much. It all adds up to just a handful of days on the trail?

 

[stmarysmead]

Exactly. A lot of her posts and pictures are repetitious...about that hike on Mt Perfido...rather than what she saw and did on a specific day.

She hikes with the new friends and then spends 4 days in the camper instead of going home to Dan...so she can hike with them again.

After the hike on the the 8th...Sundsvall Sweden location glitch....she decides to summit the same mountain three days in a row until...another hike with same friend. And another Sundsvall Sweden glitch on the 12th.

Would she have stayed in the area and hiked the Pic twice in 0rder to rendezvous with them again?

FYI, in case anyone wants to buy any of Dan’s books...the FB is fully set up now with links for purchasing.

 

[PeggyHenry]

Exactly. A lot of her posts and pictures are repetitious...about that hike on Mt Perfido...rather than what she saw and did on a specific day.

She hikes with the new friends and then spends 4 days in the camper instead of going home to Dan...so she can hike with them again.

After the hike on the the 8th...Sundsvall Sweden location glitch....she decides to summit the same mountain three days in a row until...another hike with same friend. And another Sundsvall Sweden glitch on the 12th.

Would she have stayed in the area and hiked the Pic twice in 0rder to rendezvous with them again?

FYI, in case anyone wants to buy any of Dan’s books...the FB is fully set up now with links for purchasing.

Yes... she may well have done! After all, she’s done that twice before. So it could be that the repetitive summits are simply because she is waiting. What do we know about the new friend / friends?

this could be nothing but it really could be something !

 

[RickshawFan]

Yes... she may well have done! After all, she’s done that twice before. So it could be that the repetitive summits are simply because she is waiting. What do we know about the new friend / friends?

this could be nothing but it really could be something !

ED evidently is not a solo backpacker; there's no sign, it seems, that she's been out for several nights by herself. Why would anyone imagine she went solo on a backpacking trip on 11-22?

 

[RedHaus]

She hikes again with them on the 8th and location data changes.... And she’s with her/them again on 12/11 when that same location status change happens again.

snipped for focus and BBM

So stmarysmead, one possible common denominator between those two location changes on ED/DC's FB page posts (Sundsvall, Sweden) on 8/11 and 12/11 is LA. That is the woman ED is pictured with in front of the fire in a cabane they shared, and who reported the food and conversation observations from her time with ED on 12/11.

I am not a FB expert, but wonder: If ED used LA's MiFi or HotSpot wifi and the device's URL is somehow connected to Sweden, would FB posts reflect the URL 'location'?