Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #130

[MistyWaters]

I don't think it's bizarre if you listen to or read the sheriff's words in context. It you read my most recent post, the things that they are still doing testing on, or looking into, relate to "items" within the video that they already have. So they are likely trying to do different types of analysis on the things he's wearing, etc.

Edited to say, the reporter Barbara MacDonald quoted in @GreyGardens post is the same reporter TL is talking to in the excerpt I posted upthread. She's commenting on the same conversation.

I’m thinking of another recent quote. Was Leazenby the only officer interviewed? Because I recall reading it, leaving the impression those were only the four words released, believed to be useful in aiding voice recognition by a potential tipster. But he left the opening there may be other indistinguishable verbalizations, just not clear words....or maybe I dreamt it.

 

[Pyschsandi]

Why do you think there's more of his voice, though? We know there's more of the girls' voices on the recording, we have known that for awhile. But didn't we just hear from TL in his interviews from the last two weeks that "guys....down the hill" are the only words on the recording spoken by the killer?

If there is more recording of BG, he may have said something LE wants to keep out of the public. It may be how he coaxed the girls to go down the hill. Only the killer would know how he got them to go with him. This is all speculation. You may be right and that’s all they have.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Q. The public has heard for four years, the investigation “is one puzzle piece from being solved.” What is that one piece specifically? Is it a name? Is it Jon Doe told me he killed the kids? Or, are you looking for confirmation of what you know- Jon Doe was not at work, he has a blue jacket, he cut his hair on Feb 14 or I saw a guy with a bloody jacket at 4 p.m. on Feb 13 at the gas station? You are not giving the public a lot to work with yet no arrests in four years. Aren’t you worried about more victims? Is the suspect dead or incarcerated so that is why no press conference or additional information is being released?

A. The person specifically responsible for Abby and Libby’s death. Our team of trained, experienced, and professional investigators will know that “one piece” when they see it.

I'm sorry, but this comment takes me down the "more than one perp" rabbit hole, again

It's as if there are several involved, and we, meaning LE, want the tip that solidifies without doubt specifically who was the one that murdered the girls.

I know, it could be, I mean, it was stated that the voice in the recording, the 2nd sketch, these belong to the man on the bridge, and it is he who is responsible for murdering the girls. So it could be LE is asking for his name, specifically. But my oh my, it sure doesn't sound that way to me.

This response to that question annoyed me to no end. This was a well thought out, very articulated question but instead of giving a equally well thought out and helpful answer, we get “the piece we need from the public is who killed the girls”. Well, shucks....really!? Guess what...we’d like that information from...YOU”.

 

[Yemelyan]

If there is more recording of BG, he may have said something LE wants to keep out of the public. It may be how he coaxed the girls to go down the hill. Only the killer would know how he got them to go with him. This is all speculation. You may be right and that’s all they have.

I understand all the evidentiary reasons to withhold it. I would be fine hearing "We aren't releasing whether or not more of his voice is on the recording." But I can only go by what LE say in approved sources. So it's not a question of am I right but is TL right/telling the public the truth. I think he was pretty clear that the four words are the only ones that BG says. I don't dispute that there may be mumbling or other utterances that are unclear on the recording, but I can't see how anyone can read the exchange I transcribed from his interview and get the impression that there is definitely more audible words from him and they just don't want the public to hear it.

 

[Yemelyan]

I’m thinking of another recent quote. Was Leazenby the only officer interviewed? Because I recall reading it, leaving the impression those were only the four words released, believed to be useful in aiding voice recognition by a potential tipster. But he left the opening there may be other indistinguishable verbalizations, just not clear words....or maybe I dreamt it.

In that particular podcast episode from which the TL quote came, the only other person interviewed was the prosecutor and he was asked this question:

Reporter: So how would, say, releasing the cause of death or the rest of the video, how could that impact your investigation?
NM: That's a difficult question to answer, but, it just could [laughs], that's the best way I can answer it. We need to make sure that we keep those things close to our vest at this point. and so, there's just some strategies and other things in there, that makes it important to do that right now.
Reporter: But when this gets to a prosecution, all of that becomes public.
NM: When the case is over all of that stuff will become public.

 

[MistyWaters]

In that particular podcast episode from which the TL quote came, the only other person interviewed was the prosecutor and he was asked this question:

Reporter: So how would, say, releasing the cause of death or the rest of the video, how could that impact your investigation?
NM: That's a difficult question to answer, but, it just could [laughs], that's the best way I can answer it. We need to make sure that we keep those things close to our vest at this point. and so, there's just some strategies and other things in there, that makes it important to do that right now.
Reporter: But when this gets to a prosecution, all of that becomes public.
NM: When the case is over all of that stuff will become public.

Okay, I appreciate your helpfulness! One thing I do believe, as we’ve been told - only the four words are on that tape. If there are other sounds that wouldn’t be helpful anyway. Which hopefully will squelch the belief there’s a lot more of something, whether it be conversation, discussion or instructions on the audio that LE ought to release to aid in somebody identifying his voice. Any accusations that LE have been intentionally withholding vital audio evidence from the public - in essence impeding the case from being solved- must be very frustrating for them to hear when they’ve given all they’ve got. JMO

 

[sunshineray]

County Sheriff answers double homicide questions from readers
February 17, 2021
Now available without subscription:
County Sheriff answers double homicide questions from readers | Carroll County Comet

Thanks for that info.

Another Sheriff Leazenby Comet article from April 2020 had this to say.

"The Sheriff speculated that a perpetrator has probably been interviewed by investigators about the crime, but was not immediately recognized as a offender. He said he still believes a local, or locals, committed the crimes. Leazenby said whoever did this “knew the lay of the land.” He said when an arrest is made, which he believes will happen, community members will likely be shocked at the identity of those arrested. He said he believes the perpetrator will likely be someone who is fairly well-known in the community."

I know the bolded text was not direct quote, but it hasn't been corrected for almost a year so I'm assuming it's accurate.

First it uses "those" not he. I'm going to assume that might mean whomever is providing an alibi and knowingly lying.

The rest about the "perpetrator" being someone fairly well-known and it will shock the community when revealed. Now to me, that speaks as loudly as ISP Carter's words and actions at April 2019 PC that LE knows who the killer is. I know the Sheriff recently on the HLN show said the whole still 3-4 handful of suspects. Either they really have narrowed it down to one suspect and are fibbing to not show their hand or those 3-4 are from the same family tree. AJMO

Sorry forgot the link
Lots of tips, no arrest in 2017 double homicide | Carroll County Comet

 

[Angels27]

Question for LE or Lawyers etc. -

IF LE has a POI and wants DNA from him, would they need a search warrant to get it? If they go to him and ask for it, I assume he can say No, right? Then they would need to get the search warrant and they would need probable cause for that, right? Which would tip him off and that info wouldn’t be made public so they might not attempt it, right? Can someone please explain this. Thanks.

Also, is it possible they’ve gotten other search warrants and have searched other houses than the 2 we know about but the public just does not know that yet?

 

[bradfordsleuth]

Tobe said the recording was shorter then people think. Now, where did I hear him saying that? I will scan through the podcast I think it's from. While I do that and report back, this is part of the transcript that's online from the youtube video posted pages back, the hosts of the Down the Hill podcast last month. She talks about what Tobe told her.

MIKE GALANOS: And Barb, one of this places would be the phone. If you have more, why not a little bit more? What do they tell you?

BARBARA MACDONALD: They’re telling us the video’s nowhere near as long as a lot of people think it. People online have speculated it is several minutes— 8, 9 minutes long. The Sheriff tells me it’s not anywhere near that long and that there’s nothing else from the suspect on it. He doesn’t say any other words on it. And Casey, I think you speculated awhile back that Libby probably put the phone into her pocket to hide it from him and there could be more audio. We do know they still are doing testing on that cellphone to see if there’s anything else on it… if there’s anything else within that video. They’re exploring “items” I think was the word the Sheriff used, within that video

I have jumped ahead on this thread by several pages so this may have already been mentioned previously and I missed it.

Why NOW are they finally giving us this piece of information?
That there is nothing else that is audible from the suspect on it?

For 4 years they have have pretty much clammed up tight and not confirmed anything at all about this audio (other than Abby and Libby were talking about 'stuff girls talk about' and I think it was TL that may have previously mentioned that the murders were not caught on the audio.)

Either they don't mind that they are now making themselves look somewhat foolish (JMO) for holding back for TWO YEARS the groundbreaking word 'guys' and then finally releasing it....only to tell us TWO YEARS after that that "that's all folks!"

Sorry - I am going to go with the unpopular opinion here.....I am calling bulls*it.
I just ain't buying what is being sold here.

I think they have more of his voice and they are trying to rattle his cage.

JMO

 

[Spartygirl]

Why do you think there's more of his voice, though? We know there's more of the girls' voices on the recording, we have known that for awhile. But didn't we just hear from TL in his interviews from the last two weeks that "guys....down the hill" are the only words on the recording spoken by the killer?

But LE is not going to say everything they know so yes, TL did say that, but doesn't mean that is all they have.
They would not want to tip BG off with more info IMO

 

[Spartygirl]

Q. The public has heard for four years, the investigation “is one puzzle piece from being solved.” What is that one piece specifically? Is it a name? Is it Jon Doe told me he killed the kids? Or, are you looking for confirmation of what you know- Jon Doe was not at work, he has a blue jacket, he cut his hair on Feb 14 or I saw a guy with a bloody jacket at 4 p.m. on Feb 13 at the gas station? You are not giving the public a lot to work with yet no arrests in four years. Aren’t you worried about more victims? Is the suspect dead or incarcerated so that is why no press conference or additional information is being released?

A. The person specifically responsible for Abby and Libby’s death. Our team of trained, experienced, and professional investigators will know that “one piece” when they see it.

I'm sorry, but this comment takes me down the "more than one perp" rabbit hole, again

It's as if there are several involved, and we, meaning LE, want the tip that solidifies without doubt specifically who was the one that murdered the girls.

I know, it could be, I mean, it was stated that the voice in the recording, the 2nd sketch, these belong to the man on the bridge, and it is he who is responsible for murdering the girls. So it could be LE is asking for his name, specifically. But my oh my, it sure doesn't sound that way to me.

That one piece, possibly being an alibi, IMO
Or could be what you mentioned above, but I always thought it was alibi.

 

[MistyWaters]

I have jumped ahead on this thread by several pages so this may have already been mentioned previously and I missed it.

Why NOW are they finally giving us this piece information?
That there is nothing else that is audible from the suspect on it?

For 4 years they have have pretty much clammed up tight and not confirmed anything at all about this audio (other than Abby and Libby were talking about 'stuff girls talk about' and I think it was TL that may have previously mentioned that the murders were not caught on the audio.)

Either they don't mind that they are now making themselves look somewhat foolish (JMO) for holding back for TWO YEARS the groundbreaking word 'guys' and then finally releasing it....only to tell us TWO YEARS after that that "that's all folks!"

Sorry - I am going to go with the unpopular opinion here.....I am calling bulls*it.
I just ain't buying what is being sold here.

I think they have more of his voice and they are trying to rattle his cage.

JMO

Nothing wrong with rattling his cage!

But what the “four words, that’s all folks” definitely indicates is LE is slamming shut the door on perhaps hundreds of “tips” saying things such as “you need to release more of the audio”.

JMO

 

[Spartygirl]

I have jumped ahead on this thread by several pages so this may have already been mentioned previously and I missed it.

Why NOW are they finally giving us this piece information?
That there is nothing else that is audible from the suspect on it?

For 4 years they have have pretty much clammed up tight and not confirmed anything at all about this audio (other than Abby and Libby were talking about 'stuff girls talk about' and I think it was TL that may have previously mentioned that the murders were not caught on the audio.)

Either they don't mind that they are now making themselves look somewhat foolish (JMO) for holding back for TWO YEARS the groundbreaking word 'guys' and then finally releasing it....only to tell us TWO YEARS after that that "that's all folks!"

Sorry - I am going to go with the unpopular opinion here.....I am calling bulls*it.
I just ain't buying what is being sold here.

I think they have more of his voice and they are trying to rattle his cage.

JMO

BBM- I am with you.
First released..."down the hill" --hey folks..that is what we have other than "girl chat"
then in 2019 they release "guys" down the hill.
IMO, they have more and do not want to tip BG to everything they have.

 

[MistyWaters]

Question for LE or Lawyers etc. -

IF LE has a POI and wants DNA from him, would they need a search warrant to get it? If they go to him and ask for it, I assume he can say No, right? Then they would need to get the search warrant and they would need probable cause for that, right? Which would tip him off and that info wouldn’t be made public so they might not attempt it, right? Can someone please explain this. Thanks.

Also, is it possible they’ve gotten other search warrants and have searched other houses than the 2 we know about but the public just does not know that yet?

Unfortunately we don’t have verified LE or Lawyers who regularly post on this thread. Definitely not anyone who is connected to this unsolved case.

Yes there were more than two search warrants early on, seven iirc and by now, four years later probably even more. The reason the two were reported was because the media observed it taking place. During those first few days the media was ever-present, possibly expecting an arrest.

 

[Teche]

Is there anyone else, besides myself, that analyzed his gait pattern?
I am a physical therapy doctor and I specialize in neurological rehabilitation.
I understand that this bridge appears to be very uneven, does anyone know if it is sloped at a decline towards the left?
Regardless of the structure of the bridge I believe that this man has very distinct gait characteristics. BG demonstrates a stepparent gait pattern with increased hip flexion on the right that is not evident on the left, he also appears to shift his weight over his left side when the right limb is stepping forwards. I have analyzed this video with great detail. What this kind of gay pattern suggests is some sort of neurological event that occurred in his past. I know that people are saying that he’s likely around 40 years of age which usually isn’t a common age to have suffered from a stroke . But I’m this gait pattern could be a result of a variety of
Spinal cord impairments as well. Even something as simple as bad low back pain and dysfunction.

I’m hoping others with expertise in gait analysis like
myself will continue to look into this as it could provide important information into the BG’s past that may help distinguish BG from others

Have you contacted investigators to share your observations?

 

[Spartygirl]

Yes there were more than two search warrants early on, seven iirc and by now, four years later probably even more. The reason the two were reported was because the media observed it taking place. During those first few days the media was ever-present, possibly expecting an arrest.

Exactly--- more than 2 search warrants and possibly LE going to homes asking for DNA. I hope and IMO
Media was full tilt for first month or so and reported what they knew.
I am sure LE asked for residents of Delphi to come in for DNA swabs or went and asked for them based on tips, 42,000 tips etc.
JMO...but at least I
would hope they did that.
If not, then how can we believe anything LE says regarding this case ??


DELPHI, Ind. – Four years ago, someone brutally murdered Abby Williams and Libby German. Despite cell phone video, an audio clip and 42,000 tips, no one has been arrested.Feb 11, 2021

4 years later: Abby Williams and Libby German's murder case remains unsolved (cbs4indy.com)

 

[janewall]

Okay, I appreciate your helpfulness! One thing I do believe, as we’ve been told - only the four words are on that tape. If there are other sounds that wouldn’t be helpful anyway. Which hopefully will squelch the belief there’s a lot more of something, whether it be conversation, discussion or instructions on the audio that LE ought to release to aid in somebody identifying his voice. Any accusations that LE have been intentionally withholding vital audio evidence from the public - in essence impeding the case from being solved- must be very frustrating for them to hear when they’ve given all they’ve got. JMO

In the Jason Hebert interview with Anna Williams that was linked above in the last few pages, Anna says that there is only a second or two of unclear sound between the "Guys" and "Down the hill" segments, and that's the only thing BG is heard saying on it. So either that's what she was told by LE, or it's what she actually heard herself. You can actually say several words in a second or two, but that doesn't mean he did.

She makes this statement somewhere in the first half hour of the interview. I haven't yet listened to the entire thing, but I got that far into it this afternoon.

I nearly cried when Anna discussed discovering after the girls were killed that Abby had a forbidden Facebook account. Parenting is so rough at that age, even with a good sweet kid, because as a parent you know how at risk they are, and want to protect them from meanness and danger – but meanwhile they just want to explore life and fit in and have fun and be goofy. They don't know that with your rules and restrictions you're only trying to limit the chance that some nightmare scenario might befall them.

Anna laughed, sounding a bit resigned, when revealing that Abby's FB profile said she worked at Krusty's Krabs – and my heart broke a little right there. They really were just kids. No doubt they thought they were mature now that they were teenagers, capable of making their own decisions and taking on the wider world, and their families' rules chafed them - but meanwhile they were joking around about SpongeBob on their social media.

 

[sunshineray]

Question for LE or Lawyers etc. -

IF LE has a POI and wants DNA from him, would they need a search warrant to get it? If they go to him and ask for it, I assume he can say No, right? Then they would need to get the search warrant and they would need probable cause for that, right? Which would tip him off and that info wouldn’t be made public so they might not attempt it, right? Can someone please explain this. Thanks.

Also, is it possible they’ve gotten other search warrants and have searched other houses than the 2 we know about but the public just does not know that yet?

This article was a good read on the whole subject.
Police May Not Need a Warrant to Rummage Through Your Trash, But Warrantless Collection of DNA Is Unconstitutional

 

[Jerrod]

Also, is it possible they’ve gotten other search warrants and have searched other houses than the 2 we know about but the public just does not know that yet?

Yes, early on they made at least a couple dozen arrests on unrelated charges - drugs, mostly - while investigating tips about Abby & Libby. (They even managed to get a cold case murder confession in Logansport via a tip.) Lots of drugs in Delphi, which was conveniently ignored by HLN.

 

[dotr]

Q. The public has heard for four years, the investigation “is one puzzle piece from being solved.” What is that one piece specifically? Is it a name? Is it Jon Doe told me he killed the kids? Or, are you looking for confirmation of what you know- Jon Doe was not at work, he has a blue jacket, he cut his hair on Feb 14 or I saw a guy with a bloody jacket at 4 p.m. on Feb 13 at the gas station? You are not giving the public a lot to work with yet no arrests in four years. Aren’t you worried about more victims? Is the suspect dead or incarcerated so that is why no press conference or additional information is being released?

A. The person specifically responsible for Abby and Libby’s death. Our team of trained, experienced, and professional investigators will know that “one piece” when they see it.

I'm sorry, but this comment takes me down the "more than one perp" rabbit hole, again

It's as if there are several involved, and we, meaning LE, want the tip that solidifies without doubt specifically who was the one that murdered the girls.

I know, it could be, I mean, it was stated that the voice in the recording, the 2nd sketch, these belong to the man on the bridge, and it is he who is responsible for murdering the girls. So it could be LE is asking for his name, specifically. But my oh my, it sure doesn't sound that way to me.

Maybe someone has seen, or is in possession of that one piece of the puzzle, possibly in the form of a photo, video or audio recording of the crime? imo, speculation.