JonBenet Ramsey: What Really Happened?

[icedtea4me]

icedtea4me,

On 1. this is redundant.

On 2. there was ambient light, enough to see the outline of objects.

On 3. OK, so the case is then JDI.

Lets hope Fleet White does an interview where he recounts his experience of looking in the wine-cellar?

.

On 2- He would have had to have stepped past the blue line in order to have seen where the white blanket was (purple line).



On 3- It's PDI and JDI.

The only scenario I can see Fleet saying anything about that morning is during a trial.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Had FW found JB he would have rushed up the stairs yelling call 911.
JR went missing for approx. one hr. Around 10a.m. within the home.
When JR and FW were told by Det. Arndt to check the house again around 1 p.m. ... top to bottom ... JR heads directly for the basement. He heads to the train room (probably distracts FW for a moment) while he runs to the wine cellar, finding JB. FW touches JB leg and it is cold.
FW runs up the stairs yelling dial 911.

 

[icedtea4me]

Had FW found JB he would have rushed up the stairs yelling call 911.
JR went missing for approx. one hr. Around 10a.m. within the home.
When JR and FW were told by Det. Arndt to check the house again around 1 p.m. ... top to bottom ... JR heads directly for the basement. He heads to the train room (probably distracts FW for a moment) while he runs to the wine cellar, finding JB. FW touches JB leg and it is cold.
FW runs up the stairs yelling dial 911.

John Ramsey: The American public has been led to believe that we went to bed that night on Christmas, brutally beat JonBenet, sexually molested her, strangled her, woke up the next morning, wrote a three-page ransom note, called the police, sat around the house for four hours then I went down and discovered her body - Then was able to act distraught. Patsy was able to throw up that morning because of gut-wrenching anxiety - She faked it - Help me understand that. Where is our common sense as a society, as a race of people?

09281998aedocumentary.htm


John admits to being with JonBenet around 10 a.m.

 

[DeDee]

My understanding is that Fleet White stood in the doorway, didn't see anything, and closed the door. I believe if he had just stepped in the room a few feet and looked around, he would've seen the white blanket.

My understanding was that Fleet White opened the door, but stood in the doorway and, due to his size, light was blocked from entering the room. Anyway, if had just stepped in the room a few feet and looked around, there's no doubt he would've seen her.



1. He couldn't find the light switch.

2. Do you see that blue mark? Fleet would have had to have stepped past that section of the wall that jutted out in order to have seen the blanket.

3. It was before Fleet's visit.

Investigators conducted a test on the theory at FW would not see JBR or the white blanket in the WC. They concluded that FW would not see inside the dark room sighting a lack of a window as one reason. Stepping aside from the door frame to allow more ambient light to enter the room would allow her small body to be noticed.

John did not move her body after FW looked into that hellhole. The body would tell on John via autopsy that she'd been moved after rigor set in. Body fluids pool in the lowest position due to gravity. It's called lividity. Moving her would hv presented a new set of problems for John.

 

[UKGuy]

Investigators conducted a test on the theory at FW would not see JBR or the white blanket in the WC. They concluded that FW would not see inside the dark room sighting a lack of a window as one reason. Stepping aside from the door frame to allow more ambient light to enter the room would allow her small body to be noticed.

John did not move her body after FW looked into that hellhole. The body would tell on John via autopsy that she'd been moved after rigor set in. Body fluids pool in the lowest position due to gravity. It's called lividity. Moving her would hv presented a new set of problems for John.

DeDee,
As per test, must mean John Ramsey could not see inside the wine-cellar too?

Lividity clues all depend when JonBenet's was actually asphyxiated. Since lividity eventually settles, as there is no oxygen to pump blood and the pooled regions remain static, regardless of body movement.

Consider John Ramsey finding JonBenet then manually carrying her upstairs, did this leave any lividity clues, if not why not?

I reckon the Barbie Nightgown is a clue here?

.

 

[proust20]

Since there has been mention of the nature of the light available in the basement, allow me to note, perhaps trivially, that there certainly is not enough light, whether natural or artificial, for an artist to utilize that space for painting. In addition, the use of acrylic paints requires a handy source of water for mixing and cleaning. And so, it is likely that PR had not been using her art supplies in the basement for their intended purposes.

When did her art lessons end? Did she paint somewhere in the house or only in class?

 

[icedtea4me]

Since there has been mention of the nature of the light available in the basement, allow me to note, perhaps trivially, that there certainly is not enough light, whether natural or artificial, for an artist to utilize that space for painting. In addition, the use of acrylic paints requires a handy source of water for mixing and cleaning. And so, it is likely that PR had not been using her art supplies in the basement for their intended purposes.

When did her art lessons end? Did she paint somewhere in the house or only in class?

Patsy's paint supplies were in the butler pantry area and LHP moved them down to the basement for the 23 Dec party.

 

[DeDee]

DeDee,
As per test, must mean John Ramsey could not see inside the wine-cellar too?

Lividity clues all depend when JonBenet's was actually asphyxiated. Since lividity eventually settles, as there is no oxygen to pump blood and the pooled regions remain static, regardless of body movement.

Consider John Ramsey finding JonBenet then manually carrying her upstairs, did this leave any lividity clues, if not why not?

I reckon the Barbie Nightgown is a clue here?

.

Lividity
Lividity usually begins 30 minutes to 4 hours after death and is most pronounced 12 hours after death. Blanching, or a whitish discoloration that results when pressure is applied to the skin, can occur up to 8–12 hours after death. After this time period, however, the blood becomes fixed (or non-blanchable).

All I can tell you is there was a visual test conducted on the wine cellar and unless one stands aside, not enough ambient light enters in order to see inside. I imagine John quickly flicked the light switch on since he could see well enough to know she was wearing duct tape over her mouth that left a perfect imprint of her lips, thus, indicating there was no struggle at that time nor later.

We don't know her time of death but the coroner removed her body 7 hours after she was reported missing at 6am.

Why would the pink Barbie nightgown be a clue here?

 

[Rain on my Parade]

John admits to being with JonBenet around 10 a.m.

icedtea4me,
Please show me where JR states this in your attachment. Thanks!

 

[icedtea4me]

icedtea4me,
Please show me where JR states this in your attachment. Thanks!

John Ramsey: The American public has been led to believe that we went to bed that night on Christmas, brutally beat JonBenet, sexually molested her, strangled her, woke up the next morning, wrote a three-page ransom note, called the police, sat around the house for four hours then I went down and discovered her body - Then was able to act distraught. Patsy was able to throw up that morning because of gut-wrenching anxiety - She faked it - Help me understand that. Where is our common sense as a society, as a race of people?

Called the police = 5:52 a.m. (rounded up to 6 a.m.)
Sat around the house for four hours
Then I went downscares [this is what he actually says] and discovered her body.

6 a.m. + 4 hrs = 10 a.m.

 

[Whatsunderthenighttable96]

^
Exclusive Documentary on discovery+ on Jan. 4.
LS audio tapes
JR and JAR

Anyone recall whether JA said to the camera “we aren’t afraid anymore?” in one of his recent press appearances, when explaining why they are coming forward now to find the killer? Tia

 

[Rain on my Parade]

John Ramsey: The American public has been led to believe that we went to bed that night on Christmas, brutally beat JonBenet, sexually molested her, strangled her, woke up the next morning, wrote a three-page ransom note, called the police, sat around the house for four hours then I went down and discovered her body - Then was able to act distraught. Patsy was able to throw up that morning because of gut-wrenching anxiety - She faked it - Help me understand that. Where is our common sense as a society, as a race of people?

Called the police = 5:52 a.m. (rounded up to 6 a.m.)
Sat around the house for four hours

6 a.m. + 4 hrs = 10 a.m.

icedtea4me,
- Then was able to act distraught.
He is staying the American Public have been lead to believe those things. As if it’s an act? You are correct; he slipped up.

Thank you.

 

[proust20]

icedtea4me,

Thanks for providing JR's confession!
I agree w Rain on my Parade that "able to act" is startling. What is meant by "as a race of people"? Scary.

 

[Seattle1]

icedtea4me,

Thanks for providing JR's confession!
I agree w Rain on my Parade that "able to act" is startling. What is meant by "as a race of people"? Scary.

In the context used, I believe he's posing the question to the human race (i.e., race of people) -- which excludes no one. JR wants the theories he deems preposterous to be shared with all since he believes they will agree with him.

 

[UKGuy]

icedtea4me,

Thanks for providing JR's confession!
I agree w Rain on my Parade that "able to act" is startling. What is meant by "as a race of people"? Scary.

proust20,
I reckon it means what it says. JR is old school, probably harbours ye olde colonial views but knows the currently PC way to say them?

"as a race of people"
This will be JR's racial heritage. i.e. white, european, etc.

Not much point in bringing race into the conversation in modern day america unless you want to deliniate some element.

In the past writers used to refer to JR's reference as a trope, as if it justified the thought process.

And of course JR wanted to run as a Republican, say no more, Wink, Wink , say no more, ... courtesy of Eric Idle.

Yes, "able to act" definitely sounds like JR has been to drama school. Will he get round to the staging bit, And you know what, they actually think we made up a ligature using the paintbrush handle, redressed JonBenet, wrapped her in a blanket and put her in the wine-cellar, what right thinking race of people could believe that?

JR can talk like that because he knows everyone with a brain knows the case is RDI, he has seen the case from the media insider perspective, some media types probably dropped him a few home truths, so that he can better deliver his IDI framing when he makes his faux Catch The Killer appearances in documentaries.

Also he knows he will never see the inside of a court room, and with his awareness that the sand is running out of the timer faster, could be a little anxiety is creeping in, with the curtain dropping to reveal a glimpse of JR's thought process?

.

 

[Whatsunderthenighttable96]

proust20,
I reckon it means what it says. JR is old school, probably harbours ye olde colonial views but knows the currently PC way to say them?

"as a race of people"
This will be JR's racial heritage. i.e. white, european, etc.

Not much point in bringing race into the conversation in modern day america unless you want to deliniate some element.

In the past writers used to refer to JR's reference as a trope, as if it justified the thought process.

And of course JR wanted to run as a Republican, say no more, Wink, Wink , say no more, ... courtesy of Eric Idle.

Yes, "able to act" definitely sounds like JR has been to drama school. Will he get round to the staging bit, And you know what, they actually think we made up a ligature using the paintbrush handle, redressed JonBenet, wrapped her in a blanket and put her in the wine-cellar, what right thinking race of people could believe that?

JR can talk like that because he knows everyone with a brain knows the case is RDI, he has seen the case from the media insider perspective, some media types probably dropped him a few home truths, so that he can better deliver his IDI framing when he makes his faux Catch The Killer appearances in documentaries.

Also he knows he will never see the inside of a court room, and with his awareness that the sand is running out of the timer faster, could be a little anxiety is creeping in, with the curtain dropping to reveal a glimpse of JR's thought process?

.

It’s interesting he’s thinking so broadly as to the perspective and actions of a whole race of people. I get a why me vibe from John. Of all the journeys in the world, he loses Beth, Patsy get’s terminal cancer, his son has special needs, his daughter is deceased in their basement, they launch a media circus, he loses his standing, his fortune, his boats and his plane, his estate. Blow to the ego and everything you thought you could engineer and control. They have to be considering why in the whole wide world is this happening to us, across history in the whole race of man has anyone ever had to endure such peril. As a rich white male boomer that’s as broad as he can think. They can’t trust in people because the world hates and acorns them. So they think why in the whole wide world, and they think ok, who won’t judge us for what has happened, let’s trust in Jesus and ride the faith wagon.

 

[root661]

icedtea4me,

Thanks for providing JR's confession!
I agree w Rain on my Parade that "able to act" is startling. What is meant by "as a race of people"? Scary.

Not a JR fan here, but I think he meant "the human race" not anything racially divisive.

 

[Mimsy2]

My understanding is that Fleet White stood in the doorway, didn't see anything, and closed the door. I believe if he had just stepped in the room a few feet and looked around, he would've seen the white blanket.

My understanding was that Fleet White opened the door, but stood in the doorway and, due to his size, the light was blocked from entering the room. Anyway, if had just stepped in the room a few feet and looked around, there's no doubt he would've seen her.

I just watched the documentary the other day from 2016. The Case of: JonBenet Ramsey. In the Doc., it was stated by F.B.I. profiler Ron Walker (who went as a behavioral analyst that morning) that he had told Linda Arndt to busy JR with the search of the house. This was done right after learning about JR's hour and a half disappearance. The idea was to busy him and keep eyes on him so that he would not go missing again. He called it "Kindergarten Make-work." After giving JR this task it's said that he grabs FW by the arm and makes a bee-line to the basement door, opens the basement door, says something about finding his daughter, and then turns the light on.
Walker goes on to state that in nearly every staged crime scene he's been on the perpetrator manipulates the arrival of friends/family members to bear witness to the discovery of the body or make the discovery themselves.
It was of interest to all investigators how he knew and called out that JB's body was there before he cut the light on. Walker, when asked how JR replied to that question himself, stated he was never asked. It was his understanding of the outlook laid out for the Police Department that day that they were to treat the Rs as victims and with kid gloves.
I believe JR either:
1.) already knew she was there
2.) discovered her there during the hour and a half he was m.i.a.
3.) moved her there during the hour and a half he was missing.
I'm just not completely sure which one I think. Although I lean more towards he already knew she was there and spent that hour and a half staging and tidying up a bit. It is said he was visibly agitated when he returned from his time away.
I do not believe JR, FW, LE, or you and I could have seen JB's body without the aid of light. You probably could have made out that there was a pile of something on the floor. However, I do not believe you could have instantly made out that it was JB without the aid of light. Especially when you are looking for signs of someone entering the home and disturbing things from their normal place. Even more so when you are under the assumption per the RN that a small foreign faction has kidnapped JB. I don't feel you would automatically see a blanket in the dark and think Hey!, it JB's body let me tell everyone, and then cut the light on just to be sure. Yep! That's her alright let me just grab her and take her upstairs to show everyone.....Nope, nope, nope!! Not buying it one bit!!!!

The Case of JonBenét Ramsey (2016) | WatchDocumentaries.com

 

[Whatsunderthenighttable96]

I just watched the documentary the other day from 2016. The Case of: JonBenet Ramsey. In the Doc., it was stated by F.B.I. profiler Ron Walker (who went as a behavioral analyst that morning) that he had told Linda Arndt to busy JR with the search of the house. This was done right after learning about JR's hour and a half disappearance. The idea was to busy him and keep eyes on him so that he would not go missing again. He called it "Kindergarten Make-work." After giving JR this task it's said that he grabs FW by the arm and makes a bee-line to the basement door, opens the basement door, says something about finding his daughter, and then turns the light on.
Walker goes on to state that in nearly every staged crime scene he's been on the perpetrator manipulates the arrival of friends/family members to bear witness to the discovery of the body or make the discovery themselves.
It was of interest to all investigators how he knew and called out that JB's body was there before he cut the light on. Walker, when asked how JR replied to that question himself, stated he was never asked. It was his understanding of the outlook laid out for the Police Department that day that they were to treat the Rs as victims and with kid gloves.
I believe JR either:
1.) already knew she was there
2.) discovered her there during the hour and a half he was m.i.a.
3.) moved her there during the hour and a half he was missing.
I'm just not completely sure which one I think. Although I lean more towards he already knew she was there and spent that hour and a half staging and tidying up a bit. It is said he was visibly agitated when he returned from his time away.
I do not believe JR, FW, LE, or you and I could have seen JB's body without the aid of light. You probably could have made out that there was a pile of something on the floor. However, I do not believe you could have instantly made out that it was JB without the aid of light. Especially when you are looking for signs of someone entering the home and disturbing things from their normal place. Even more so when you are under the assumption per the RN that a small foreign faction has kidnapped JB. I don't feel you would automatically see a blanket in the dark and think Hey!, it JB's body let me tell everyone, and then cut the light on just to be sure. Yep! That's her alright let me just grab her and take her upstairs to show everyone.....Nope, nope, nope!! Not buying it one bit!!!!

The Case of JonBenét Ramsey (2016) | WatchDocumentaries.com

Right totally. And some have suggested that Fleet was a big broad guy, he would have blocked the light from behind him and couldn’t find a light switch when he checked.. he legit didn’t see her.

Agent walker’s perspective is very important, from that very morning an FBI analyst knew that 1) the Rn was bogus, 2) there was staging and family involvement in misdirection/ cover up.

 

[UKGuy]

I just watched the documentary the other day from 2016. The Case of: JonBenet Ramsey. In the Doc., it was stated by F.B.I. profiler Ron Walker (who went as a behavioral analyst that morning) that he had told Linda Arndt to busy JR with the search of the house. This was done right after learning about JR's hour and a half disappearance. The idea was to busy him and keep eyes on him so that he would not go missing again. He called it "Kindergarten Make-work." After giving JR this task it's said that he grabs FW by the arm and makes a bee-line to the basement door, opens the basement door, says something about finding his daughter, and then turns the light on.
Walker goes on to state that in nearly every staged crime scene he's been on the perpetrator manipulates the arrival of friends/family members to bear witness to the discovery of the body or make the discovery themselves.
It was of interest to all investigators how he knew and called out that JB's body was there before he cut the light on. Walker, when asked how JR replied to that question himself, stated he was never asked. It was his understanding of the outlook laid out for the Police Department that day that they were to treat the Rs as victims and with kid gloves.
I believe JR either:
1.) already knew she was there
2.) discovered her there during the hour and a half he was m.i.a.
3.) moved her there during the hour and a half he was missing.
I'm just not completely sure which one I think. Although I lean more towards he already knew she was there and spent that hour and a half staging and tidying up a bit. It is said he was visibly agitated when he returned from his time away.
I do not believe JR, FW, LE, or you and I could have seen JB's body without the aid of light. You probably could have made out that there was a pile of something on the floor. However, I do not believe you could have instantly made out that it was JB without the aid of light. Especially when you are looking for signs of someone entering the home and disturbing things from their normal place. Even more so when you are under the assumption per the RN that a small foreign faction has kidnapped JB. I don't feel you would automatically see a blanket in the dark and think Hey!, it JB's body let me tell everyone, and then cut the light on just to be sure. Yep! That's her alright let me just grab her and take her upstairs to show everyone.....Nope, nope, nope!! Not buying it one bit!!!!

The Case of JonBenét Ramsey (2016) | WatchDocumentaries.com

Mimsy2,

I do not believe JR, FW, LE, or you and I could have seen JB's body without the aid of light. You probably could have made out that there was a pile of something on the floor. However, I do not believe you could have instantly made out that it was JB without the aid of light. Especially when you are looking for signs of someone entering the home and disturbing things from their normal place.

Who thinks Fleet White expected to open the wine-cellar door and have JonBenet standing there dressed in her bed-clothes, and saying with a broad smile, You Found Me?

Presumably there was no smell of urine as you stood outside the wine-cellar door, despite JonBenet allegedly releasing her bladder there?

Along with no smell of a dead body, they do have a characteristic smell due to the decomposition process kicking in, curious nobody picked this up, even if only subconciously?

If all you can see in front of you is a dark void then surely you might adjust your own body to allow any ambient light in?

Only Fleet White can tell us what actually happened?

One unaswered question is did JR find JonBenet in the wine-cellar because he put her there after Fleet White looked in, or did Fleet White miss the pile of something because he was looking for a live JonBenet?

I just finished watching a documentary about the Las Vegas shooting, apparently the shooter bet away millions of dollars then decided to kill innocent visitors to the town.

What struck me was how the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department were in the pockets of the local gambling outfits, apparently they bankrolled Clark County Sherrif Joe Lambardo's run for office?

Is this a normal situation in the US? As I'm thinking about JonBenet and was she was denied justice because BPD was influenced by people with money. Could put JR's call to Colorado's governor in a different light, or am I speculating too far?

.