UK UK - Sarah Everard, 33, London - Clapham Common area, 3 March 2021 *Arrests* #6

[Lincolnshirelad]

Just to clear up some misunderstanding about private ambulances, as people were speculating upthread about one that may or may not have been seen outside the house in Deal.

A private ambulance in the UK is a small, vented van used by undertakers to transport cadavers. They are usually black and labelled 'Private Ambulance' but are otherwise identical to coroners' vans, which are labelled as such. Similar sized/shaped vans just in general use usually lack the roof vents. Ambulances used to transport patients non-urgently to hospital are usually termed - and labelled - 'Patient Transport'. HTH.

They are usually grey and (not always marked) small transits in some areas, our local force has a contract with Mercedes for these.

We live a few doors down from storage and often see them.

 

[L White]

101 .. as 111 is the NHS. But if you’ve ever tried to get through on 101 it can be a long, long wait. I’ve been on hold for up to an hour before. I do think verifying identification is important. But if Sarah had tried to do so, would he have grabbed her regardless? If I were stopped in a vehicle at night I certainly would not be getting out until I’d verified the stop. I guess confronted on foot it’s harder.

Aren't the police always supposed to be in 2s in the UK or is that just Scotland?

 

[Columboshound]

Yes I agree that it time consuming to ring 101 but if you did it immediately while keeping a distance, the perp might get scared off.

Being a similar age and education etc etc to Sarah there is no way I would go near an unmarked police car. If one pulled up near me I wouldn’t even listen I would turn and run or walk away. And certainly would NOT get in a car no questions asked This is why I think he attacked her rather than lured with a fake story. JMO

 

[jk1874]

That headline is a bit misleading.

It hasn't been confirmed that they didn't know each other. Just that no link is established yet.

"so far there is no evidence"
"you cant be 100% certain at this stage"

we may never know as well, there's no proving they didn't know each other 100%

 

[Howinthisdayandage]

Its so hard to believe that if the suspect took 20 mins (this was earlier on the thread) to reach Clapham Common area, he spotted her from his car and this it the outcome within 30 mins. That timing would give him 10 mins to spot her. She was probably wearing a coat, a hat or hood, it was dark and raining, he can’t have really known what she looked like, her rough age, physical capabilities from his car. He had no idea how far she had to go to reach her destination, if she was meeting up with someone outside etc. It all seems so fast, what was the suspect doing in the half hour from when she left her friend? Was he just circling the area and going by her multiple times, or parked up waiting(but he wouldn’t have known her route so how would he have known where to park) or was it that it really didn’t matter who it was just that it was someone and that if it wasn’t that night it would be another.

 

[Armchair_Defective]

THIS. Thank goodness someone has said it. Any woman who has never been attacked by a strange man has no idea how strong and lightening quick men are. He could have had her in that car and restrained before she even knew what hit her. The only slim hope that a highly situationally aware woman would have had would have been to have seen him coming, knock him off balance and run, but the guy's centre of gravity is about 30 inches from the ground - she would have had no chance at all - I would have had no chance and I can fight and have 80lb on her.

Also - the Met Police use tricks - which I have seen first hand - to inflict pain and/or instantly immobilise people - even very large men - two I have seen used are something they do to a person's ear to bring them to the floor helpless, and another similiar thing with a finger. If he wanted her in the car, she would have been put straight in the car - no negotiation or stories needed.

I said the same. I was the victim of an attacker as a teenager, so I know how quick it can be. It doesn't take much and shock kicks in ( which the attacker hopes will subdue you, some women freeze, some don't, it's not something you can control). Luckily I didn't get put in a car so I fought and escaped. If you were in a locked car and the man said he had a weapon all attempts at resistance or getting out of the situation may be impossible.

 

[Columboshound]

My theory is that he saw her on her phone talking so knew she would be unaware of who was close behind. He was following/waiting. As soon as she hung up he attacks. JMO

 

[pumpkinn]

Can anyone help identify the make and model of the car in attached video?

timestamp 040321 - 2200.
https://livetrains.co.uk/jamCams/osm/#00001.03901

EDIT: Sorry - front left car in shot

God the front left car has really creeped me out. Zoom in - quite a lot of movement from the driver and the towards the end of the clip, a lot of movement in the back right like someone is reaching or head is out of the window. Very eery

 

[tmar]

Are you thinking of the Jennifer Dulos case? Fotis Dulos committed suicide prior to his court appearance and his gf Michelle Traconis has been charged but poor Jennifer’s body has not yet been found.

No. The case, was a young female was murdered by a male she worked with (in the armed forces, he was of higher rank).
She was doing a stock check on items in the store.
He took the body out in a large case (on camera).

 

[Commoner]

If the Met Police puts a story under embargo the press obey - it is less about press standards and more about the law and avoiding massive fines. Press must follow embargos otherwise next time they won't get the story.

Contempt or 'Sub-Judice' Rules | Channel 4

There are strict laws about what can be published, and they kick in once a suspect has been arrested.

Once someone is charged, there is normally no further official information published until the trial.

This can be waived when there is a clear public interest in doing so, such as for information LE want to be in the public domain, such as key events (the finding of remains) or specific appeals which may assist an ongoing investigation.

 

[DFR3217]

These are very interesting.

Despite the photo fit looking all wrong (eyebrows too dark?) the micro-location of the Sevenoaks attack looks eerily similar to the Poynders Road/Rodenhurst Road corner - wide A road, resi area on outskirts of town. And the MO could explain this case - attempt to lure off a main road along side street for indecent act but not necessarily murder. So emboldened by that event he has escalated but that the murder was a panicked response to the attack not going the way he expected or she tried to take her phone out to capture him or call for help and he then overpowered her AND immediately switches off her phone.

Just a theory.

This micro-location theory is interesting to me. That sort of A road with a lot of traffic, but very few people has never felt like a comfortable place to walk for me. It would be relatively easy to target lone women in places like that. But anyway, we will find out more in due course.

 

[Nikynoo]

Speculation on Facebook.

DBM

Interesting, but not surprising. Lets wait and see!

 

[JuicyLucy]

I don't really understand why people are still so keen on the idea that she knew him. At one point that theory might have explained why she got into a vehicle, but now we know who her alleged abductor is, surely there are other, more plausible ways to explain that (e.g. authoritative, warrant card, physically powerful, trained in overpowerment techniques). JMO

 

[Joolz1975]

God the front left car has really creeped me out. Zoom in - quite a lot of movement from the driver and the towards the end of the clip, a lot of movement in the back right like someone is reaching or head is out of the window. Very eery

The 4th March was the night after.

 

[Newthoughts]

This 100%. Also I’ve been looking to stop and search rights in stronger detail today and it’s all fairly confusing. Can anyone tell me with a link of possible what our rights are if stopped by an officer/officers and told to get into a car and you feel vulnerable? Is there a right if stopped by a lone officer in an unmarked car, even if flashing a badge, to ask for confirmation from the station before proceeding because that’s the bit that’s not clear.

bearing in mind that if he lured her through stop and search or what have you he’d have 100% have had a story ready to confidently give her as to why she needed to comply, and therefore a lot of our standard rights in that instance (eg getting reason, badge number etc) stands for nothing. Are we legally allowed to demand further confirmation in the spirit of personal safety?

I think your post perfectly highlights just how little we know about our rights, what correct police procedure would be and whether we should get into a car. I'd check the warrant card carefully if they weren't obviously in uniform but that would be it. Then I'd probably comply completely.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

101 .. as 111 is the NHS. But if you’ve ever tried to get through on 101 it can be a long, long wait. I’ve been on hold for up to an hour before. I do think verifying identification is important. But if Sarah had tried to do so, would he have grabbed her regardless? If I were stopped in a vehicle at night I certainly would not be getting out until I’d verified the stop. I guess confronted on foot it’s harder.

Which number is our equivalent to 911? I’m new to the 111 and 101. Will you help me understand? tia

 

[Rusty Braincells]

Re the “peeing in the street” speculation above... forgive me the sexist assumption but I’m going to say that mostly men liked this idea.

Certainly women who are very drunk are known to do this, but urinating in public is not the regular occurrence that it is for men and unless SE was quite inebriated (and it seems she didn’t drink to excess), I would be very surprised if she decided to “nip behind some bins” to relieve her bladder rather than holding it until she got home (which women are experts at).

I’m a recovering alcoholic that has drank to excess more times than I can count, and even I don’t believe I’ve ever urinated in the street and only on one occasion in public (in some bushes at a festival) when I had numerous friends in the vicinity.

 

[Lod76]

Using this website is like time travelling back to 2004. They need an upgrade!

The quality of discussion on here is also like travelling back to 2004 which is why I think it's amazing. Whoever runs this site does an incredible job. I'm new but have lurked here in the past regarding one or two other cases and I find the place a breath of fresh air.

 

[pumpkinn]

The 4th March was the night after.

Ah my bad, trying to catch up and missed the timestamp

 

[Nikynoo]

Have just quickly caught up on this whole thread so have skimmed some of it. Therefore, apologies if what I’m about to post has already been considered, but just a couple of thoughts in relation to a hire car possibility and the separate arrest for indecent exposure:

1) Re “hire care” - rather than hiring a car in an attempt to make traceability back to him more difficult (because it’s probably not), is it possible he hired a car for its superior advantages/use in some way - ie could we be getting hung up on a possible clumsy use of “hire car” when it might have been a “hire vehicle”, like a 4x4 or van for instance that may make both detaining SE easier in the back and getting across rural land later easier.

2) Alternatively, could it indeed refer to a lease car - might he get some allowance to long term hire/lease a vehicle to use to commute from Deal to Westminster and he still has his own family car(s) because he’s not allowed to use this other car for personal use at weekends, etc. I know we’re in a pandemic, but personal use only might explain the low mileage on the Seat in the last year or so. This might then explain why he was in this vehicle if he was on his way home from work.

3) If it was a hire vehicle of some sort, then could the wife have driven him to/home from wherever he returned the hire car to and this is why she is suspected of assisting him. She may have been oblivious, but the police may need to arrest her to determine this.

4) Similarly to placing too much focus on “hire” and “car”, could the indecent exposure arrest relate to digital indecent exposure - ie harassing people (presumably women, given SE) online/SM with unsolicited pictures of himself and this was uncovered by police shortly after his arrest when checking his phone for evidence and/or the micro SD card they took from his house. This may explain the relative swiftness with adding that arrest feature and not needing doing so to have relied on another person coming forward so quickly (remember, the general public/other victims may not have known WC’s identity in this case as quickly as we did). Any VIs know if SM/messaging of private parts counts as indecent exposure if unsolicited? I’m aware a counter to my theory above is, without someone coming forward to accuse, LE cannot assume they were unsolicited but just a thought.

All MOO.

I'm wondering whether it was perhaps a 'pool' car that officers can use at short notice (e.g. if they're covering someone elses shift?)