Found Deceased UK - Sarah Everard, 33, London - Clapham Common area, 3 March 2021 *Arrests* #12

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I did wonder this too, but also he could have deliberately hit her?

I wondered this too, whether the car was parked across the path, on the drive coming out of the flats. SE went past the front of the car or around the back and the car nudged her slightly, knocked her over, then offered to help her up, possibly take her to A&E.
JMO
 
Well, the Met has a lot of work ahead of them then. He's willing to hunt near work, and hide a body within 45 minutes of where he calls "home".

I had the bizarre thought that he may have scattered things all over the place just to make a lot of work for the Met! But not logical really.
 
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What's the rule with muted embedded videos from youtube and liveleak accounts?
 
Indeed. Also the alleged IE incident days earlier makes it too much of a coincidence for me.

exactly! I think the increased IE has been escalating and I think this was planned. Not necessarily murder, but the kidnap and assault. You don’t commit sexual crimes and then accidentally run a young woman over who then turns up dead.
 
Didn't it say that they happened when he was alone in his cell?
Him self-inflicting the injuries actually makes the most sense. No officer would risk being fired or messing up the investigation like this. Plus, cells and clothing are designed to not be used to harm oneself. The alleged would therefore only be able to bang his head against something and cause himself injuries, presumably to escape questioning or make himself unfit for trial

I had the bizarre thought that he may have scattered things all over the place just to make a lot of work for the Met! But not logical really.
I think it's more than likely that the alleged didn't plan everything, so everything being scattered around the place would be the alleged trying to get rid of the possible evidence.
I remember people were discussing it yesterday on how the alleged nearly got away, but realistically I think he just got very very lucky on the location everything happened within as there was no CCTV other than the two buses
 
I do think it's quite possible he accidently ran her over.

He is already in the throes of some kind of mental episode (the time off work, the IEs, the erratic behaviour) and he just panicked. Maybe he'd had a drink or taken drugs or something and knew he'd lose his job if he got done for it. Reacted without thinking - and it escalated from there.

He hits her. Stops. Puts his hazards on. Jumps out. Leaves door open. Goes round to her, maybe sits her in the passenger seat while he checks her out. That door is open too. Then realises what he has done and quite simply, loses the plot. Incapacitates her then drives off with a massive problem.

I'm thinking a Fargo-esq situation unfolds after that.
I also thought this was one possibility. Would also explain why a wife might help.

But the IE makes me think less likely
 
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I also thought this was one possibility. Would also explain why a wife might help.

I thought it more likely he told the wife a partial truth, something along the lines of I hurt someone in an accident (ie something that could involve criminal charges), I'll lose my job, we'll lose the children so you need to cover for me etc.
 
What's the rule with muted embedded videos from youtube and liveleak accounts?

YT links from MSM channels are WS approved, as well as a handful of crime bloggers such as Profiling Evil, Court TV, Grey Hughes Investigates. Others may be approved on a case-by-case basis.

Based on the few restrictions for liveleak, I doubt the source/content acceptable for WS.

I'm unaware of any UK YT crime bloggers/networks pre-approved at this time.

This would probably be a good time for recommendations to WS for preapproval prior to posting.
 
Although it is shocking that SE was seemingly taken in a busy area with no-one seeing anything,I was just thinking about WC's job. He would be trained to be acutely aware of his surroundings, risks, cameras, people, movement,his position in relation to the environment. That what he does for a job to protect people and buildings. I also had a thought that if he had provided protection to individuals and groups, especially on the move, that he would have enhanced skills at assertively directing people towards a certain path. We don't know that he wasn't in uniform that night. He could have approached SE, with his ID out and urgently steered her towards the car and them v quickly bundled her in. Either using the shock tactic where she doesn't have time to think, applying certain holds and possibly using those plastic handcuffs to restrain, or as others have said a punch to the face. He could even have had duct tape in the car to cover her mouth.

I think the theory of using the little road behind the flats is a very good one. As always with these cases it is very hard for people to imagine someone planning something like this and carrying out a callous act. Whilst there is obviously an act of opportunism often these men have planned and fantasised about something like this for a long time. This year having followed Libby Squires and Louise Smith's trial, there are just men who want to hurt women and don't seem to care how likely it is they will be found out or are so arrogant they think they won't be.
 
Hi All

First time poster here, please be kind. I've become interested in this case as it is very local to me and obviously tragic. I'm no expert in LE or anything like that, and whilst I have read quite a lot of the very informative posts here, I haven't read everything and my understanding could be some way off events. That said, some thoughts (I've seen that at least one other poster has recently posted a similar theory/hypothesis so I'm not trying to claim that any of this is necessarily original). All speculation/hypothetical obviously.

- as far as I know, WC has a clean criminal record previously or else for minor/spent offences only, given he would have undergone vetting when he entered the police.
- if WC/the perp were some kind of highly methodical individual who had engaged in criminality of this nature/severity on previous occasions and not been caught, one might reasonably expect that he/the perp would not have gone about this (SE) in the manner that he has, which has some signs of being more scattergun/impulsive.
- there seem to be signs that WC has recently been undergoing some type of breakdown/strange behaviour (bereavement at death of father, time off work seemingly beyond that of a normal bereavement even of a parent/close family member, the brazen flashing at McDonalds when he must have know/enjoyed the element of risk or it having been an impulsive/spur of the moment thing).
- he has the hire car for whatever reason, but maybe he thinks that whilst he has it he can do a bit more IE without exposing himself quite as immediately as in his own vehicle. He's driving round London for whatever reason, and on the spur of the moment sees SE walking down a dark and quiet Poynders Rd (I walked a little bit up the road from there the following evening and noticed how quiet the normally busy South Circular was) and thinks he has an opportunity.
- he pulls over, perhaps into the drive/car park, and gets out of his door, and flashes (or whatever) at her. She takes a picture or two, possibly getting him in the act and the car, and says she is going to send it to the police. She goes to carry on walking.
- he panics, realises this will be the end for him, career in police, and almost instinctively thinks that he has to get the phone.
- he grabs her in some fashion whilst still a bit manic/panicked, perhaps drags her to the bin store, and somehow, before he realises what he has even done, she is not breathing anymore.
- he then gets the car near her, panicking, and shoves her into the front seat. Ditches her phone quickly before driving off e.g. maybe down a drain. She would look asleep to any other road user once she is in there. No visible marks or anything, at least from a distance. No or not very much blood/ton clothing or anything on either of them
- he drives off, on autopilot, and leaves London. Instinctively he heads towards home and quickly realises/decides that he can't turn himself in as he has no reasonable excuse and it all means that his career/family life is over.
- he therefore pauses, perhaps stopping somewhere on the way to transfer the body to the boot, and leaves the car/stores the body somewhere whilst he tries to think what to do next.
- coming up with no better alternative (in his mind) he burns the body as well as he can (sorry for gruesome- ness, and I have no idea how hard or not it is to burn a body effectively) and then puts the remains as best he can into a builders bag and dumps it, perhaps thinking that he will move it/bury it at some point in the future if he thinks of a better alternative.
- he then disposes of the various items that he thought it better not to burn, and does this in various bins/rivers/whatever, as he thinks that a single item here and there won't be noticed whereas dumping a number of things together might do.
- he does all of this a bit recklessly because he knows he has to try to get rid of the stuff quickly and in his mind this was all just a terrible 'accident'. He's scared and not able to think things through properly or rationally, perhaps as well as not being the sharpest tool in the box generally.
- he hopes it will all go away and that he might get away with it having done his best, and then the night there is the knock at the door and he walks out calmly, knowing that he's done for.
- he gives some version of this story to the police/an 'it was an accident and then I panicked' line, and then when he realises the police can place him at various places he begins to slowly give them certain pieces of information about where the stuff has been ditched.
- he knows he is finished, and will now be trying to think how he can best try to engineer a situation where things look least bad for him (plead not guilty to murder and say he will accept manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility or something along those lines).

- in saying all of this, what I have in mind is that it would seem unusual for someone at 48, a family man (for whatever thats worth) to have the idea/possess such evil that he was going to kidnap and then take them somewhere to assault and kill them (i.e. the most dreaded scenario), and then to think that the best place to 'source' the victim would be one of the busiest roads in London, and then drive 70 odd miles. IN his mind the IE is probably just a 'bit of fun' sort of thing. I also have in mind that it doesn't seem as though the police have spent any significant time at a separate murder scene, which would presumably be an area of intense focus for them. So maybe SE had died very suddenly/early on, and perhaps he did a transfer of the body between cars at home at some point, so as well as searching the house very thoroughly they might be able to see if her DNA is there, asking neighbours if they saw anything etc.

All speculation and without any insight/experience, but interested in the views of others as to whether this might be viable.

Separately, can we rule out that he ran her over accidentally (she stepped into the road with headphones on and he had no chance to stop, perhaps even there was an element of drink or drugs involved)? And then he panics as above?

I think this - indecent exposure gone wrong - is probably the most plausible theory IMO. Everybody's having a hard time understanding how somebody can go from IE to a brazen first-offence kidnap/rape/murder so quickly, but maybe that's because it didn't happen that way and he never intended to murder her.

Saying that, though, there are obvious problems with this theory too - ie, why would the hazard lights be on? And WC was charged early on with kidnap, so LE must be confident Sarah was alive when she entered the car. (Although the theory of IE gone wrong still works if the actual murder happens elsewhere.)

So ... yeah. I don't think I've heard one theory of what actually happened that doesn't have some glaring holes/inconsistencies in it. So many things that are so hard to understand with this case.
 
exactly! I think the increased IE has been escalating and I think this was planned. Not necessarily murder, but the kidnap and assault. You don’t commit sexual crimes and then accidentally run a young woman over who then turns up dead.
History begs to differ. A recent case in Arkansas. A man allegedly rammed an acquaintance with his vehicle while jogging near her home. Loaded her up in his truck, raped her, and buried her on his property. He alleges it was an accident and he panicked. The trial is pending.

ETA: + link
Found Deceased - AR - Sydney Sutherland, 25, Jackson Co., went for a jog, 19 Aug 2020 *ARREST*
 
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I think constantly. As far as I am aware there are 3 ways a phone gives off its location:
- to iCloud
- to the phone masts/cell towers nearby via the phone/Sim
- to GPS satellites

For example, you can take a picture on your iPhone and if you have mobile data switched on for photos it will immediately push a copy of that photo to Apples servers/your own iCloud account - really handy so you don't just have them on the phone, they are backed up without having to do anything except making sure you have enough storage in iCloud.

This can all be turned on or off in settings.


This isn't correct.

"- to GPS satellites" - Nothing is ever transmitted to GPS satellites. This is a common misconception. The satellite has no idea who is using it for tracking location - the satellites simply transmit a time coded signal and devices use the signal from multiple satellites to calculate a location.
 
This isn't correct.

"- to GPS satellites" - Nothing is ever transmitted to GPS satellites. This is a common misconception. The satellite has no idea who is using it for tracking location - the satellites simply transmit a time coded signal and devices use the signal from multiple satellites to calculate a location.

yes.

Also, icloud and other backups are just a data connection via the cell towers

So in the end, everything is cell tower connection, with the comment that where you push locational data to the cloud, that will pinpoint you reasonably accurately.
 
Yes I would like to hope that if anything dodgy or s
Sarah screamed was done then the bus or car would of stopped straight away to help.

I’m wonder if more witnesses will come forward as there is like 3 min gap isn’t there between the car and the bus so other cars must of been going past at that point but probably didn’t have cameras on there cars. As on the south circler there wouldn’t of been zero cars for 3 mins.

I live in another big UK city. It's noisy and busy all the time. There are people out and drunk and noisy, addicts fighting, domestic situations, you name it. People very rarely stop or take notice. So I can well believe a sort of 'quick scuffle' near a car could go completely unnoticed.
 
History begs to differ. A recent case in Arkansas. A man rammed an acquaintance with his vehicle while jogging near her home. Loaded her up in his truck, raped her, and buried her on his property.
There was a similar case on a Greek island in 2019, where a local man deliberately hit a jogger (a tourist) with his car, so he could kidnap, rape and murder her.
 
I live on a busier road than Poynders, and have no trouble believing she could have been kidnapped - it's the most likely scenario imo. The chances of someone looking out their window at the exact time it happened are low, and with lockdown there just aren't as many cars or pedestrians out as normal. Plus any sound, particularly if it were short lived, wouldn't constitute enough to go and look if I lived nearby.
 
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