Found Deceased UK - Sarah Everard, 33, London - Clapham Common area, 3 March 2021 *Arrests* #13

[Urbanfox1]

Yes I saw that hence my query about what would constitute 'ethical considerations'.

Oh I see. My apologies. I’m going to have to caveat as I don’t have time to go through but I see your point and I imagine [what was meant by ethical considerations] is this:

if your client tells you “I did it”, or similar, you are professionally embarrassed as you must not knowingly mislead the court. Therefore you’d have to step down or refuse to act at all or any further. Also could legitimately turn down brief if conflict of interest. I hope that helps

 

[Urbanfox1]

possibly if the barrister knew someone involved in the case? Rather than just didn’t agree with defending such actions? Just a guess, moo

good guess = possible conflict of interest

 

[Sherlockhames]

New human bones were found 4mi from a PaDP protected site, Chevening House. I called it last week. This will unfold in many other sites.

Whereabouts (out of interest)?

 

[Urbanfox1]

Either that or there’s someone else who is planting it “getting off” watching the police waste time and searching

Interesting IMO

 

[seasideForest]

Even if the accused had PTSD (which some people in Police and other emergency services have had) it seems unikely he would be working and still doesn't turn people to crime. MOO

No, you're right, PTSD does not usually lead to crime of this type, or any type in fact. IMO of course, though I have PTSD myself (Well, tbh I have cptsd but know enough about ptsd too). SELF-harm is a possible symptom, but that's for different reasons than one might have for attacking somebody else. Also here's what NHS has to say: Symptoms - Post-traumatic stress disorder

 

[charles foxtrot]

Agree. Even if someone has been off sick a) it doesn't make them a kidnapper and murderer (allegedly) and b) there would be a medical history which would determine fitness to work and it seems the accused was fit to work on 2nd March. JMO, speculation.

what's strange is that the IE in MDs and the alleged murder were so careless with regard to the investigative consequences. maybe he wanted to get caught? he wanted it to stop? merely speculating.

 

[KensingtonandChelsea]

When you say 'ethical considerations' do you mean a barrister could refuse to represent someone like the accused on moral grounds?

No, it specifically says in our Code of Conduct's core duties that we cannot refuse a brief just because we disagree with the issues or defendant at hand. When I said ethical considerations, I meant perhaps if the defendant is aggressive towards you or threatens you, you can withdraw/refuse, if anything else would make it difficult for you to act in your client's best interests then that should be an ethical issue you raise with your clerk when he discusses briefs with you.

Refusing to represent someone and withdrawing from a case are two different things. Often you would withdraw if you realise that you are unable to act in the client's best interests - for example if he tells you he's guilty but continues to plead not guilty, you can't put forward a positive case in court. At that point you may decide to state that you are withdrawing and it will be apparent to the judge what you mean by this. Conflicts of interest are carefully monitored within law firms by solicitors but you would have to declare if you had any conflicts with your lay client - I haven't personally heard of someone withdrawing or refusing due to a conflict of interest yet. The most common reason for turning down a brief is lack of availability in your schedule or maybe feeling that you don't have the requisite skill set/experience for the brief but often solicitors won't approach you with it if they know you can't handle it, for want of a better phrase.

 

[Sarahaddison14]

Either that or there’s someone else who is planting it “getting off” watching the police waste time and searching

yes I’ve thought that also

 

[Gibbo214]

If he’s been flashing in public places for many years but never been caught, then he’s been incredibly lucky. It’s very rare for somebody to commit a sexually-motivated murder at the age of 48 without having a criminal record of some sort, but that appears to be what we have here. It’s very odd.

It is possible that he has been flashing for some time. That is part of the anger of women at this time. On this thread there are numerous reports of posters relating incidents of being flashed and even when reported, nothing done about it.

 

[Commoner]

Does anyone else get the impression that he’s pre planned and planted false flags for the LE, ie the cream/white beenie but only difference is the Pom-Pom.
Secondly the CCTV places the suspect at sandwich where they’re currently searching and find some similar navy leggings and white top, only difference is the leggings are ditsy floral and not diamond/the white top is a blouse instead of t-shirt.. it’s too coincidental to me! JMO

No. I can only speak to the hat (which I saw on the Common) which was a cream coloured pompom hat, the sort of which are everywhere.

It was slung up into somewhere dry and easily visible, so the person who dropped it can retrieve it more easily - that's just what people do (and why you see hats, gloves, scarves toddler toys and strewn booties propped on fences, bollards, trees etc)

It wasn't Sarah's hat

And the simplest solution is dropped on morning school run and someone put in a conspicuous place to be helpful

JMO

 

[candlemaker808]

Long-time lurker, first-time poster, etc...

I think one obvious reason they would like to find SE’s phone, even if it’s been submerged in water and the data on it is completely irretrievable, is simply that it’s an object that was known to be in her possession at the time she went missing. If it’s recovered in a faraway place that can be tied to the suspect (eg by CCTV) then that adds to to the evidence against the suspect. IMO.

 

[KensingtonandChelsea]

I'm not sure about insanity but it certainly looks as if he is struggling mentally. Something is up for sure and I really don't think he's faking. I could be wrong but I just get a feeling that there is something behind all this. PTSD maybe? I am not defending the accused, just thinking out loud.

I notice that in one of the drawings, his eyes are closed. I distinctly remember Ariel Castro standing in court with his eyes closed and he swayed a little back and forth. I wondered if it was his way of blocking out the shame. If I can't see you...you can't see me.

Just some thoughts.

MOO

I once marshalled on a murder where the defendant refused to open his eyes or speak throughout the entire 3 week trial, even to his own lawyers. The judge didn't take kindly to his behaviour as you can imagine but to me it was obvious he knew what the outcome of the trial would be which is why he behaved in that way.

 

[AgathapisdT]

New human bones were found 4mi from a PaDP protected site, Chevening House. I called it last week in many other sites.


Apols had to edit - technology not my forte!

@ Apparently in Denial, if the link below is what you are referring to I believe they have been discounted?
Northampton human bones discovery 'not suspicious'

 

[Armchair_Defective]

If he’s been flashing in public places for many years but never been caught, then he’s been incredibly lucky. It’s very rare for somebody to commit a sexually-motivated murder at the age of 48 without having a criminal record of some sort, but that appears to be what we have here. It’s very odd.

Not sure if you're from the UK but it's awash at the moment with women sharing stories on how they've had things happen multiple times and the police do nothing. Many here have shared similar accounts.

 

[tallmansix]

We won't know until trial but the confusing bits about this case for me are:

1. Most people, especially LE are aware of the huge numbers of CCTV and ANPR in and around London, impossible to enter and leave London without your vehicle registration number being captured. A hire car doesn't get round this, even false plates aren't fool-proof because the genuine owner of the registration number can be quickly eliminated in an investigation and the movements of the car with false plates are still captured.

2. We haven't heard in the news about the hire car being recovered by the police nor any requests to help to locate it so I guess it was returned to the hire company. Local press / public would usually pick up on this as it would be quite an event if forensics were recovering a car from a company in Dover at the time, maybe the car had been re-hired already to another person so the recovery was kept private. Where was the accused's own car - did he take it to Dover to hire the car and leave it there until returning the hire car.

3. Stranger abductions into car - I've browsed news history, when it does happen in London and other UK cities all seem to have involved a weapon to threaten the individual and the perp usually turns out to have a lengthy criminal history or bad character unless the perp was known to the victim. Only difference here is the possibility of using police ID in the abduction but that wouldn't get the victim 55 miles away without something else happening soon after the abduction.

4. During the missing persons search, it was said that SE's phone signal was last located to a mast near to the site of the alleged abduction. Suggests that the phone was quickly disabled (unless battery just happened to go at that time) and suggests something serious happened during the kidnap or very soon afterwards. A one and a half hour drive from kidnap to where SE was found is unusual for sexual offences that seem to occur very close to the first encounter from reading historic news reports - to much risk of something go wrong / been spotted during the long journey.

5. I'm torn between it being a calculated pre-planned crime vs escalated beyond original intent. The accused had no reason to be where he was or to be in contact with SE so preplanning and bad intentions are likely. However the intent could have been similar to IE that escalated.

6. Builders bag - can see why it was used, easy to carry / drag a body a distance but was it already in the car ready to be used or did he return home for it later? Where was the body during this time if he did? A police officer (Darren McKie) in Manchester killed his wife and left the body in the boot of the car round the corner from his house then waited until his kids were in bed to move her body - the movements of that hire car will be really interesting.

 

[seasideForest]

New human bones were found 4mi from a PaDP protected site, Chevening House. I called it last week. This will unfold in many other sites.

Do you have a link for that?

 

[KensingtonandChelsea]

New human bones were found 4mi from a PaDP protected site, Chevening House. I called it last week. This will unfold in many other sites.

Didn't the police say that those bones had been there for several years? If he's been going undetected for that long, I'm surprised he was so sloppy this time.

 

[don74]

No, Chevening House is in Kent, so it's not the Northampton one. I think it must be the Bromley find that apparentlyindenial is referring to?

 

[Nikynoo]

We won't know until trial but the confusing bits about this case for me are:

1. Most people, especially LE are aware of the huge numbers of CCTV and ANPR in and around London, impossible to enter and leave London without your vehicle registration number being captured. A hire car doesn't get round this, even false plates aren't fool-proof because the genuine owner of the registration number can be quickly eliminated in an investigation and the movements of the car with false plates are still captured.

2. We haven't heard in the news about the hire car being recovered by the police nor any requests to help to locate it so I guess it was returned to the hire company. Local press / public would usually pick up on this as it would be quite an event if forensics were recovering a car from a company in Dover at the time, maybe the car had been re-hired already to another person so the recovery was kept private. Where was the accused's own car - did he take it to Dover to hire the car and leave it there until returning the hire car.

3. Stranger abductions into car - I've browsed news history, when it does happen in London and other UK cities all seem to have involved a weapon to threaten the individual and the perp usually turns out to have a lengthy criminal history or bad character unless the perp was known to the victim. Only difference here is the possibility of using police ID in the abduction but that wouldn't get the victim 55 miles away without something else happening soon after the abduction.

4. During the missing persons search, it was said that SE's phone signal was last located to a mast near to the site of the alleged abduction. Suggests that the phone was quickly disabled (unless battery just happened to go at that time) and suggests something serious happened during the kidnap or very soon afterwards. A one and a half hour drive from kidnap to where SE was found is unusual for sexual offences that seem to occur very close to the first encounter from reading historic news reports - to much risk of something go wrong / been spotted during the long journey.

5. I'm torn between it being a calculated pre-planned crime vs escalated beyond original intent. The accused had no reason to be where he was or to be in contact with SE so preplanning and bad intentions are likely. However the intent could have been similar to IE that escalated.

6. Builders bag - can see why it was used, easy to carry / drag a body a distance but was it already in the car ready to be used or did he return home for it later? Where was the body during this time if he did? A police officer (Darren McKie) in Manchester killed his wife and left the body in the boot of the car round the corner from his house then waited until his kids were in bed to move her body - the movements of that hire car will be really interesting.

Great analysis. Your 5, I am in the same place. Your 6, I am pretty sure I saw some in the garage of his home, but haven't had time to search for the pictures (there are so many). I guess the answer to this question will guide you to the answer of 5.

 

[seasideForest]

These threads are public, and will be read by those who themselves may have PTSD, or any of a number of serious mental illnesses (not to mention those who knew and love Sarah) - please, please, please can certain WSers stop casually throwing around these terms in such a sensationalist and groundless way?

Amen to that!