Found Deceased UK - Sarah Everard, 33, London - Clapham Common area, 3 March 2021 *Arrests* #14

[BellMat]

Some info here:

Careers within the UK Police Force - Road Traffic Policing Unit

Thank you. A few things stand out for me re. skills and knowledge as it relates to the accused:

- play an important role in every aspect of road traffic safety
- deal with ... vehicle crashes, pedestrians injured by vehicles ... and road safety education
- not bound to any geographic areas
- detailed knowledge of traffic law
- ability as highly trained drivers to ensure the safe stopping of suspected criminals

edit. I realise this role was from a decade+ ago but still ... we're not talking about your average person with average road and traffic skills.

 

[LeopardLeotard]

I didnt mean on drive, inside garage right hand side, yellow and I think green bags stacked up like I said prob top soil xx

That wasn't cement on the driveway, it was a big bag a gravel / sand / aggregate of some type. Nobody would leave cement outdoors, it normally comes in paper bags and would be stored in a dry place. I'm not saying cement wasn't available to the accused, just wasn't on the driveway. Also would be a big effort to take a typical 25kg bag of dry cement along to the place the body was left along with the 10+ litres of water needed to mix it and it is a messy process, hard not to get the stuff all over clothes and shoes when mixing. Not impossible but can see much advantage to all that effort when it doesn't prevent identification. It may delay finding the body if sufficiently covered but that would probably take a few bags of cement. Also likely to slow down decomposition rather than burn the body down to the bone.



Agreed, that phrase is used a lot - I read it that it was clearly a human body from the phrase used but not immediately identifiable as to "who", which is not surprising - I don't think any human body would be fit for visual identification after 7 days outdoors. Although temperature were averaging about 4 degrees C initially, it was up to 8-12C just before the body was found and could be bloated, discoloured by that point and probably damaged by insects and animals like rodents and foxes - not in a condition for visual identification. For reference I watched a dead squirrel decay in my garden in October last year, it was unrecognisable after a week.

 

[Sherlockhames]

Or as a probationer they may know nothing about the specifics if they are just guarding the perimeter and share a gallows humour meme sent by someone else. But in the context of this case this is foolish - not sure the general public should conclude anything from the specifics of the meme. Could be vaguely accurate - in which case V bad to have shared, also poor taste. Or not accurate in any way but still v poor taste and distressing for the family. Whatever the truth that comes out later in court (of the actual events) this meme, shows spectacular lack of judgement from the officer involved. (Although not to the degree of a prosecutable offence as in the case of the photos of Bibaa Henry and Nicole Smallman).

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Police divers, who have already spent 48 hours looking in a Kent stream for evidence including Sarah Everard's phone, have renewed their underwater hunt today as the search of the 300-metre stretch continued for a third day.

Officers in Sandwich Kent have focused on a 50-metre portion of Sandwich's Delf Stream near to the town's Ropewalk area.

Forensic officers have been concentrating on a specific area in the tourist spot for three days, meticulously rooting through bins, lifting stones and drains for the investigation.

Then yesterday they delved into the network of drains systems snaking underneath the 4,500-population Medieval town.

But the stream has been of constant interest, with neighbouring Devon and Cornwall Police even providing divers to bolster numbers at one point.
Search for Sarah Everard's mobile continues: Police divers resume 48-hour underwater hunt | Daily Mail Online

 

[Sherlockhames]

A good scent dog will pick up a scent weeks after an event, no matter how contaminated the scene is.

Clever doggos!

(Anyone know whether it is likely the police could have taken the accused belongings on the evening of the arrest to get a scent match to the dogs on the Poynders Road scene in London? Would an arrest allow the removal of clothing and such to facilitate this? And would this evidence be used/admissible in court or is it more to help the police build a picture?)

 

[Babooshka]

1st time poster here, hello and apologies if any of this has been covered before ! I saw the camera footage on Poynders rd at 940 , not sure of it is viewable now. I believed it was originally posted on twitter. It appeared to me as if someone in a light coloured jacket was near the bus stop and then looked like a figure ran towards them across the grass. This appears to match where they were searching , although the timing is slightly out from the times recorded on the bus and dashcam footage. I wonder if SE ran from where she was and the accused caught up? It's horrifying to think of what poor SE would have gone through.JMO

 

[Sandyuk]

Sorry if this has already been gone over. From the Mail:

‘Ms Everard was captured alone on CCTV at 9.15pm and again 9.28pm, and was later caught on the camera of a marked police car at 9.32pm. At around 9.35pm, a bus camera captured two figures on Poynders Road and a white Vauxhall Astra with its hazard lights flashing. Another bus camera captured the same car with both front doors open. The registration of the vehicle, later confirmed to be a car hired in Dover, Kent, was caught and tracked by police as it left London towards Kent.’

If he had his hazards flashing, that sounds like he pulled over under the pretense that there was something wrong with his car, or some other kind of emergency. Both doors being open at the same time sounds like she got in willingly. He must have tricked her. I can see why they think he used his status as a policeman to make her trust him.

This is what I'm trying to figure out time wise. It took up to 3 mins (if the two figures are SE & WC) for them to come across each other. It doesn't say if the police car also captured the Astra. Was it there at 9.32pm? Iirc I had read previously the second bus image was 9.38pm ? If it was at 9.38pm and the police car did capture an image of the Astra, then the Astra was there for at least 6 mins. If both buses caught an image at the same time 9.35pm, then that's pretty quick for one to see hazard lights flashing and another to see both doors open, I can't see both things happening at exactly the same time ? If the police car didn't capture the Astra that would mean that the Astra was approaching the area before the police car so would have then seen SE walking and then pulled over somewhere between 9.32pm and 9.35pm. One timeline would mean he was waiting, the other means it was a quick decision after following her.

 

[kittythehare]

Clever doggos!

(Anyone know whether it is likely the police could have taken the accused belongings on the evening of the arrest to get a scent match to the dogs on the Poynders Road scene in London? Would an arrest allow the removal of clothing and such to facilitate this? And would this evidence be used/admissible in court or is it more to help the police build a picture?)

Maybe google search protocols for murder investigations?

 

[Rosegold68]

Her phone could be literally anywhere.... could even be smashed to tiny pieces and scattered around. Wonder who has said it’s in that area....accused must be talking a bit.

why would police need it so badly? Did accused remove the SIM card? Wonder how much can be accessed.... so many questions!!

 

[Tothemoon22]

I remember that the initial investigation also included sites at Tooting Bec so in my opinion the alleged drove this way and police were looking for evidence of car stops or discarded items, en route out of London.

Re: the investigation around Tooting Bec, where did you see/read this please? I haven't heard that before.

 

[kittythehare]

Her phone could be literally anywhere.... could even be smashed to tiny pieces and scattered around. Wonder who has said it’s in that area....accused must be talking a bit.

why would police need it so badly? Did accused remove the SIM card? Wonder how much can be accessed.... so many questions!!

It may not be a phone they're seeking but it possibly is.
Apple are notorious for failing to comply with warrants, no matter how serious the case is.

 

[PomPom123]

24 hours or so ago roughly I posted this in an earlier thread:

Going back to a video on YouTube of the crime scene forensic search at Poynders Road on March 9 (Google it; don't think can be linked here).

Where they are looking, and presumably where car was, is a dropped kerb for an entrance/exit to the rear of the flats. Was this where he had been waiting? Did he drive out and accidentally knock into her, hence his pulling out on to road, jumping out of car quickly and leaving driver's door open, going round to her, opening passenger door and saying he'd take her either home or to hospital? The metal fence also looks like something has gone into it, but could have already been like it.

Just another personal thought.

I have asked a mod if this vid can be used here.

Having now got clearance, here is said vid. Not a lot we didn't see on March 9, but in close up detail, and rather interesting . It was actually our @tedtink who first found this, so due credit.

Very interesting to see the video thanks for posting. I hadn't realised dogs had been used.
I also suggested this theory about the accused knocking SE over. Perhaps he even reversed out giving him worse visibility and making any accident more likely?

Just had a horrible thought, what if he actually ran her over and killed her then placed her in the front passenger seat with a seatbelt on to drive her down to Kent to dispose of the body?

 

[Parmalade]

This is what I'm trying to figure out time wise. It took up to 3 mins (if the two figures are SE & WC) for them to come across each other. It doesn't say if the police car also captured the Astra. Was it there at 9.32pm? Iirc I had read previously the second bus image was 9.38pm ? If it was at 9.38pm and the police car did capture an image of the Astra, then the Astra was there for at least 6 mins. If both buses caught an image at the same time 9.35pm, then that's pretty quick for one to see hazard lights flashing and another to see both doors open, I can't see both things happening at exactly the same time ? If the police car didn't capture the Astra that would mean that the Astra was approaching the area before the police car so would have then seen SE walking and then pulled over somewhere between 9.32pm and 9.35pm. One timeline would mean he was waiting, the other means it was a quick decision after following her.

I can’t recall any mention that the Astra was caught at 9:32pm, only SE.

The hazards on the Astra were caught at 9:35pm along with two figures (not confirmed to my knowledge if SE and the defendant).

The open doors on the Astra were caught at 9:38pm (no mention of figures or if hazards were still on at this point). NOTE: SEE EDIT 2 BELOW

There was a separate MSM article that suggested SE herself was caught at 9:35pm and 9:38pm as well as 9:32pm (police car), but I only saw that once.

Will try to find links and will edit if I do.

EDIT TO ADD: This article claims SE herself was captured on bus footage at 9:35pm and 9:38pm. Whether these are the same cameras that also caught the Astra, either together or SE slightly down the road it’s not clear.

Sarah Everard accused's wife 'living in fear of trolls' as he appears in court

EDIT 2: I can now no longer find any MSM article reporting the second bus footage of the Astra is definitively at 9:38pm - they all say something along the lines of “another camera caught the front doors open”, suggesting it could have been at 9:35pm too. If so, this would then give a 3 min (or 2 min 2 secs) gap where SE was seen after the open front doors..?

 

[Angleterre]

This is an extremely astute observation.



We touched on this topic in the Libby discussions, but it is a safe bet under UK procedure he has said some things. Most likely in a written statement.

Just as a hypothetical example, let's say your car is tracked by CCTV cameras in a way that could harm your defence, but actually you were driving to the local McDonalds. You could elect to simply say nothing to explain that pre-trial. But under UK law reform about pre-trial statements, your reasons for being in the area might qualify as something that should have been reasonably disclosed.

So unlike the US, there are significant tactical reasons under UK procedure that might compel the accused to volunteer his movements pre-trial.

Failure to do so could lead to adverse comment from the judge.

The reason is that otherwise you can listen to the entire prosecution case, then announce you were going to McDonalds, but because it is months later, the Crown had no chance to check drive-thru CCTV etc

This is very common with alibi defences.

So I would guess you are correct. There is a good chance the accused has offered an account of his movements, such that he can rely upon that version at trial.

IIRC @Angleterre has significant expertise on this topic having conducted numerous pre-trial interviews.

02c, disclaimers etc

@
mrjitty you are correct . The caution reads - ‘ You do not have to say anything, but IT MAY HARM YOUR DEFENCE IF YOU DO NOT MENTION WHEN QUESTIONED, SOMETHING WHICH YOU LATER RELY ON IN COURT, anything you do say may be given in evidence.
The bolded part is the significant part here . Basically, an inference can be drawn by failure to disclose a material fact and that inference could be one of guilt . It’s for exactly the reasons that you say, a DP could say NO COMMENT throughout their interview and wait until it goes to trial at Crown Court and then once they know the weight of evidence against them and what is going to be relied upon and presented, they can then structure a defence to explain away what the prosecution are alleging is part of the circumstances surrounding the offence committed but by not giving a reason or explanation at the time of the interview, you have left the prosecution with no option to ‘test’ that evidence which leads some to think that you have simply made it all up to fit what the prosecution say, now that you have the benefit of hearing what their case is against you, and subsequently this was brought in to try and stop that from happening and to let the judge and jury draw an inference from your refusal to answer at the time and that inference can be one of guilt

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

Very interesting to see the video thanks for posting. I hadn't realised dogs had been used.
I also suggested this theory about the accused knocking SE over. Perhaps he even reversed out giving him worse visibility and making any accident more likely?

Just had a horrible thought, what if he actually ran her over and killed her then placed her in the front passenger seat with a seatbelt on to drive her down to Kent to dispose of the body?

I don't know if they got anything from all that work? They seemed to be putting markers down from kerb back to fence, but what it all means...?

 

[PomPom123]

Yep as I have the image on my phone as I screen grabbed it before bed and I just looked at it and it’s so specific that I can understand completely why her family had to be informed about the tasteless meme as it would be upsetting to her friends and family if it leaked out which it did.


You can also see where he has altered the original image to write his own words in his 6 Steps guide.

Eugh so he actually edited it himself? Absolutely vile.

 

[LeopardLeotard]

I didnt mean on drive, inside garage right hand side, yellow and I think green bags stacked up like I said prob top soil xx

That wasn't cement on the driveway, it was a big bag a gravel / sand / aggregate of some type. Nobody would leave cement outdoors, it normally comes in paper bags and would be stored in a dry place. I'm not saying cement wasn't available to the accused, just wasn't on the driveway. Also would be a big effort to take a typical 25kg bag of dry cement along to the place the body was left along with the 10+ litres of water needed to mix it and it is a messy process, hard not to get the stuff all over clothes and shoes when mixing. Not impossible but can see much advantage to all that effort when it doesn't prevent identification. It may delay finding the body if sufficiently covered but that would probably take a few bags of cement. Also likely to slow down decomposition rather than burn the body down to the bone.



Agreed, that phrase is used a lot - I read it that it was clearly a human body from the phrase used but not immediately identifiable as to "who", which is not surprising - I don't think any human body would be fit for visual identification after 7 days outdoors. Although temperature were averaging about 4 degrees C initially, it was up to 8-12C just before the body was found and could be bloated, discoloured by that point and probably damaged by insects and animals like rodents and foxes - not in a condition for visual identification. For reference I watched a dead squirrel decay in my garden in October last year, it was unrecognisable after a week.

I didnt mean on drive, inside garage right hand side, yellow and I think green bags stacked up like I said prob top soil xx

Ive gone back through thread and cannot find that part now weirdly, yes there's a vid of them near garage, yes there's a still I can find of forensic guy inside garage but now it's cropped so you cannot see bags, they would be below green trailer, right of black box thing xx
Mother-in-law of Sarah Everard murder suspect speaks out after arrest

 

[asyousay]

Eugh so he actually edited it himself? Absolutely vile.

Well I can’t be sure of that but considering he was at the crime scene guarding and this seemingly mentions stuff only a officer would know. You can make your own conclusions. IMO


ETA - this would also be why the Met came out about the meme as it’s so offensive.

 

[Angleterre]

Accidentally run her over and panicked? Might be just enough to put a bit of doubt in the jury's minds if there is not much other evidence I suppose. Be interesting to see if this does come up in court.

To put forth a charge of murder , there has to be intent . Therefore, a Murder charge would not be proffered in these circumstances because hypothetically speaking, there is no intent and therefore they are not a feasible set of circumstances.

 

[Moll]

Police divers, who have already spent 48 hours looking in a Kent stream for evidence including Sarah Everard's phone, have renewed their underwater hunt today as the search of the 300-metre stretch continued for a third day.

Officers in Sandwich Kent have focused on a 50-metre portion of Sandwich's Delf Stream near to the town's Ropewalk area.

Forensic officers have been concentrating on a specific area in the tourist spot for three days, meticulously rooting through bins, lifting stones and drains for the investigation.

Then yesterday they delved into the network of drains systems snaking underneath the 4,500-population Medieval town.

But the stream has been of constant interest, with neighbouring Devon and Cornwall Police even providing divers to bolster numbers at one point.
Search for Sarah Everard's mobile continues: Police divers resume 48-hour underwater hunt | Daily Mail Online

They think Devon and Cornwall are neighbouring to the Met or Kent? - sometimes you'd think the DM was an overseas news site!