Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #15

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KD is circling back to early in the investigation when some law enforcement sources were telling the press that this was a m/s.

They were executed!

That was the lede of the column written Dec. 15, 2017, on the strange deaths of Honey and Barry Sherman.

I was about to push the send button when Toronto Police sources said it was wrong.

“It was not a double murder,” said one cop. “It’s a murder-suicide, with him killing her, dragging her body to the pool, hanging it and then hanging himself.” ...

...Despite the fact that police talked us out of going with the story we had correct on that first night, we decided to approach it with an open mind.

This is why I kept pushing on this case and, despite what police were saying, kept bringing out every clue we found — most pointing to a double homicide.
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WARMINGTON: Did cops mislead, bungle or capitulate in Sherman 'murder' probe? | Toronto Sun

I think now with KD reporting that there were smaller ligature markings under the belts, it seems clear they were both murdered.

I’m not understanding why KD is revisiting the m/s theory right now.
 
ldlager said:
Here is a quote I found interesting from today's article: (RBBM)

"...Veteran former homicide detectives told the Star that in their opinion the lead investigator on a case should attend a crime scene when the bodies are present. The former officers spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak about the case..."

So who could these supposed "veteran former homicide detectives"(note: plural) be? If they are retired, or no longer with the force, why would they be "not authorized to speak about the case"? To me, this suggests the following set of alternatives:
a) they are former homicide detectives but employed by the TPS and therefore not allowed to talk about the case. This seems unlikely to me given the KD reference to more than one detective- how many former homicide detectives are with the TPS in another capacity?
b) former TPS homicide detectives who are no longer with the TPS but still for some reason not allowed to talk about the case. There are 2 alternatives here:
i) They used to work on the Sherman case while at the TPS, but are no longer with the TPS and cannot comment on the case because they worked on it. This also seems unlikely- how many homicide detectives worked on the Sherman case and are no longer with the TPS?
ii) They worked on the Sherman case but were NOT TPS homicide detectives at the time. They are not allowed to discuss the case because they worked on in some capacity. IMO this points the finger directly at members of the Greenspan PI team.
​
So my conclusion is, if KD's article is factual, he got this information from more than one PI team member. There seems no other logical explanation, and if true, isn't it likely that they leaked stuff to KD or discussed the case with him before now?

What do others think?
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All possible, IMO, and in addition there’s also a former TPS homicide detective that works in the GTA media.

He’s sometimes bad at holding on to information before it’s confirmed officially and the news breaks, IMO. (When a Toronto teen was kidnapped, he tweeted about the suspect’s car being found and other details about what the police were about to announce—then he deleted the tweets and wouldn’t answer questions.)

ETA: It may have been a purposeful leak that the police asked him to tweet.
 
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MistyWaters said:
Maybe KW put the retired detective he often spoke about in touch with KD!

Otherwise guessing who KD spoke to is impossible, “former” could refer to someone who retired 20 years ago. And of course they wouldn’t be authorized to speak about the case because they know nothing about it.....an example of creative word-smithing. JMO
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Except KD is a professional writer and he used the word "authorized" which I interpret as "allowed" or "permitted". Its a strange word for him KD to use for someone who is an old retired detective (actually more than one) who wouldn't need authorization from anyone to speak about the case.

KD is revisiting the M/S to throw TPS under the bus, and/or to cast doubts on their competence IMO.
 
Satchie said:
Cause we've been discussing it here?
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I think you’re kidding, but *if* KD does follow along, I have many questions.

-what would have likely happened in H & B’s lives between December 14th-January 30th, had they lived? Especially with JS & AP in the likely, (IMO), event they would not get a bank mortgage and repay the $50-60 million?

-JS and AP were (and still are) partners when they borrowed the $127 million from Sherfam. JS said he paid back ‘every dollar’ from his proceeds from the estate...but made no mention of AP paying anything back. Did you ask JS about that? It makes it sound like AP is an unintentional heir to the estate, IMO.

-would it have been possible for them to get a bank mortgage of $50-60 million if Green Storage had registered loans, held by Hour Holdings, on their properties already? (Can you explain where the $127 million was invested and how they could have leveraged whatever they spent it on to obtain the $50-60 million in a bank mortgage?)

-why did they start up Harlo (secondary mortgage company) in 2017 after they were asked to repay BS? Did BS know about it?

- In 2016/17, Sherfam loaned JS & AP $55 million to buy two storage properties that each had a registered nominal purchase price of $2.00–is that significant to the story? Why not divulge the actual purchase prices? Were BS or someone at Sherfam concerned about the registered value of the Green Storage and other properties versus the loans titled against them?

-what is it about AP that so many people close to this case openly want nothing to do with him (except for JS)?

-any fallout in JS & AP’s cottage area or other businesses due to what some may think is unflattering media coverage?
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Lexiintoronto said:
rsbm

Why do you think he’s doing that now?
He has already pointed out many things that seem like TPS incompetence.
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Maybe he has nothing else or new to report and he/the Star has all of our attention and wants to keep us tuned in to his articles.

I am not sure what information can be garnered and used going back to early media reports about M/S. This is media reporting, not police reporting what they know and have learned. Reporters hear one word and can make up a scenario and quickly report what they think not what is proven or necessarily the entire truth.

We are well aware that media create enticing headlines to grab our attention and we read or listen in. We also know that our Canadian law enforcement do not share much information during an investigation. We learn these details via court proceedings long after the actual crime. So if a reporter asked a "police officer" at the crime scene and not a trained detective, I can easily imagine that the police officer answered a question or two, one being no sign of break in (no destruction at an entry or around the house - staff running around the home and not the staff did not suspect of anything odd enough to draw them to the basement ) and if asked are you looking for any suspects? No ( reason for the answer no -at this time, they had no clue yet and the investigation had not even started with detectives, so no suspect can be looked for.

Early media reports of the M/S seemed to contradict the actual investigations happening at the crime scene. Why check the roof, sewers in the street and spend so much time at the crime scene if they really thought M/S. Maybe first responders thought it was an inside job, but once detectives arrived and looked around they knew more and did not correct the media because it created an abundance of people contacting them to share what they know of B+H and that the M/S scenario could not be true?

It is not unheard of that the media and police can work together, maybe they want this subject matter rehashed and get someone talking again?
 
ldlager said:
“It sounds like AP is an unintentional hier to the estate”.
Exactly! Certainly a very significant beneficiary of the estate, without having to be even named in the wills....
Click to expand...

My understanding is that the repayment is all business-related, not really a personal "significant beneficiary of the estate".

Yes he wins as his business may have no debt and yes that can be thought of as personal gain as the business will be all profit, but it is not an open line to keep receiving money from the estate. (other than JS keeps giving it to him, he could now be the bank of Jonny instead of the bank of Barry!)
 
I have explained my theory many times before on this website and I don't want to bore anyone, but for those of you who are recent arrivals, I shall concisely repeat my belief that this was indeed M/S: the couple had an argument which turned physical...BS,without full intent, injured HS and she died. Not wanting to go down in history as a murderer, he concocted the scenario whereby they were both found dead by the pool. Did he do all the steps himself or did he have someone to assist ? I don't know. We have an expression in French "une grosse tete".....BS had a grosse tete...[loose translation: big head]....full of himself and highly intelligent and ending up getting what he wants. People with that temperament can usually come up with seemingly impossible solutions. Just look at his past track record and you will see what I mean.
 
Bobbi Pearl said:
My understanding is that the repayment is all business-related, not really a personal "significant beneficiary of the estate".

Yes he wins as his business may have no debt and yes that can be thought of as personal gain as the business will be all profit, but it is not an open line to keep receiving money from the estate. (other than JS keeps giving it to him, he could now be the bank of Jonny instead of the bank of Barry!)
Click to expand...

Agreed, rather than Barry’s company holding the financing, there’s a good chance JS or another company he’s established now holds the mortgage. As far as AP goes, that wouldn’t represent a windfall to him nor any material change whatsoever.

Maybe why the ambiguity, it’s important to note that incorporated companies are separate legal entities distinct from the individuals operating them. Just because the word “partner “ is referred to, it by no means indicates the bottom line is split 50/50 nor that one partner financially benefits from a cash injection by the other.
 
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CAMBRIAN said:
I have explained my theory many times before on this website and I don't want to bore anyone, but for those of you who are recent arrivals, I shall concisely repeat my belief that this was indeed M/S: the couple had an argument which turned physical...BS,without full intent, injured HS and she died. Not wanting to go down in history as a murderer, he concocted the scenario whereby they were both found dead by the pool. Did he do all the steps himself or did he have someone to assist ? I don't know. We have an expression in French "une grosse tete".....BS had a grosse tete...[loose translation: big head]....full of himself and highly intelligent and ending up getting what he wants. People with that temperament can usually come up with seemingly impossible solutions. Just look at his past track record and you will see what I mean.
Click to expand...
Yeah sure... Right... (full disclosure here, I met both B & H a number of times and know a few people who knew them extremely well). So, according to your "theory", Barry beat up Honey and then dragged her body down the stairs, then strangled her with a zip tie, then removed it, put a belt around her neck and then dragged her body up 3-4 feet and hung her from the pool railing. Then, he puts a zip tie on himself, takes it off, removes both zip ties from the house and hides them somewhere nobody can ever find them, and then hangs himself from a 3-4 foot railing -- which is impossible to do!!!! Oh, and let's not forget that he would have had to have bound his own hands behind is back while doing this -- the bodies were both found with their hands bound with their jackets behind their backs!!! UNBELIEVABLE!! PLEASE!! First of all, Barry was incapable, both physically and in terms of temperament, of hurting and dragging Honey's body around like that. He was not a strong person, and frankly, was a little frail.
THIS WAS NOT A MURDER SUICIDE!! PERIOD!! Sorry to be so blunt here, but to think that this scenario actually happened is beyond ridiculous!
 
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AP would now be in debt the same as he was prior to the deaths (presumably owing half of whatever their corporations owed), while JS's owner equity would be higher.. or like MW said above, JS may have started (or already had) his own singularly owned company which is now owed the money instead of Sherfam. In which case, I wonder if JS's terms are as generous as Sherfam's were. Even though the monies owed by JS and AP's companies came from Sherman money both before and after the deaths, somehow it seems/feels like there is a shift in balance/power now that it is JS himself, rather than 'Sherfam'. I think people behave differently with money when it is perceived as their own money, as opposed to someone else's money. jmo.
 
Who to believe, KD’s unnamed source or JK, regarding Apotex’s financial situation at the time of the murders. As LE have redacted much of the information from the ITOs recently released, relevant to the ongoing investigation, I’d go with JK. If indeed $50 million was asked to be refinanced by JS’s company, I don’t believe there was a dire urgency. One of the reasons is that it’s literally impossible to arrange large corporate financing within just a few days. $50 million would’ve only been a small drop in the bucket if indeed “Barry was scrambling”.

JMO

KD -
“Ever the gambler in business, Barry had lost a drug patent case in the summer of 2017 and Apotex was likely going to have to pay $580 million to a rival company in January 2018. My sources told me Barry had little cash liquidity and was scrambling for ways to pay....”
Barry Sherman’s son says his father asked him to repay tens of millions of dollars, two weeks before murders, but Barry was ‘all in’ with son’s business

JK -
“In the weeks leading up to their deaths, Apotex lost a $500 million court case involving a drug patent. It had also just laid off numerous staff, and more cuts were coming.

While the information piqued the interest of investigators, Barry Sherman's long-time business partner Jack Kay told them it likely had nothing to do with the couple's deaths.

"[Barry] would not be fazed by Apotex's financial situation, as Apotex was only one part of Sherman's holdings, and they have other money," Kay told investigators, according to the ITO.”
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/barry-honey-sherman-murder-2021-1.5860527
 
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Bobbi Pearl said:
My understanding is that the repayment is all business-related, not really a personal "significant beneficiary of the estate".

Yes he wins as his business may have no debt and yes that can be thought of as personal gain as the business will be all profit, but it is not an open line to keep receiving money from the estate. (other than JS keeps giving it to him, he could now be the bank of Jonny instead of the bank of Barry!)
Click to expand...

yes but I am imagining that the bank of Jonny is much easier for AP to deal with than the bank of Barry. After all. Jon is essentially no lending to his own business.
 
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