Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *Arrests* #56

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Honestly, I feel like no matter what the response to my statement is going to be, it'll be negative:
Nobody in this family is innocent.
If the grandparents were so concerned about JJ, why were they fighting at the last minute?
If Annie was so concerned about Tylee, why not contact people sooner or even police?

I certainly feel this sometimes -- but as other posters mentioned, we don't have the whole story. (Probably never will IMHO.)

A neighbor or relative may have called the school with concerns -- schools & school personnel cannot speak publicly so we just don't know if either Tylee or JJ was asked about what was going on or asked if they needed help.

Some people are able to keep quiet when that's best. We know that Cody Ryan spoke very publicly and very emotionally about his missing sister & brother. Mr. Ryan is careful & thoughtful -- we don't know what he did privately.

Calls to LE would probably be referred to the Juvenile Office -- and if so we're not going to hear anything and may not hear from that office at trial.

The biggest hole IMHO in the social safety net for Tylee & JJ IMHO was the local police in Arizona. Today, we all know that Charles Vallow was right.

We've watched him speak to officers outside the hotel/motel, not looking for a link. I understand that officers likely followed their department's protocol here, but do you think the outcome would have been different if a different set of officers -- perhaps female, perhaps trained for avoiding manipulation, perhaps trained for mental health issues -- had spoken with Lori? Separated Tylee from Lori for a few questions?

I certainly think so.

I expect that most family members are emotionally beating themselves up -- I should have called someone, I should have done something, I should have....

At the end of the day, it is only Lori & Chad who should have done something differently.

If they wanted to live child-free, family members would have taken those lovely young humans.

Heck, most of us would have taken those lovely young humans.

Lori & Chad are responsible, AFAIC, Lori & Chad together.

JMHO YMMV LRR.
 
I certainly feel this sometimes -- but as other posters mentioned, we don't have the whole story. (Probably never will IMHO.)

A neighbor or relative may have called the school with concerns -- schools & school personnel cannot speak publicly so we just don't know if either Tylee or JJ was asked about what was going on or asked if they needed help.

Some people are able to keep quiet when that's best. We know that Cody Ryan spoke very publicly and very emotionally about his missing sister & brother. Mr. Ryan is careful & thoughtful -- we don't know what he did privately.

Calls to LE would probably be referred to the Juvenile Office -- and if so we're not going to hear anything and may not hear from that office at trial.

The biggest hole IMHO in the social safety net for Tylee & JJ IMHO was the local police in Arizona. Today, we all know that Charles Vallow was right.

We've watched him speak to officers outside the hotel/motel, not looking for a link. I understand that officers likely followed their department's protocol here, but do you think the outcome would have been different if a different set of officers -- perhaps female, perhaps trained for avoiding manipulation, perhaps trained for mental health issues -- had spoken with Lori? Separated Tylee from Lori for a few questions?

I certainly think so.

I expect that most family members are emotionally beating themselves up -- I should have called someone, I should have done something, I should have....

At the end of the day, it is only Lori & Chad who should have done something differently.

If they wanted to live child-free, family members would have taken those lovely young humans.

Heck, most of us would have taken those lovely young humans.

Lori & Chad are responsible, AFAIC, Lori & Chad together.

JMHO YMMV LRR.

Agreed. LVD may not have been the greatest Mother, but AFAIK, there was not evidence of severe neglect or abuse of the children. No one would have removed those children from her care, no matter how crazy she seemed. There was no reason to suspect that LVD would have done something so heinous. That the children were actually in mortal danger with LVD.
 
Agreed. LVD may not have been the greatest Mother, but AFAIK, there was not evidence of severe neglect or abuse of the children. No one would have removed those children from her care, no matter how crazy she seemed. There was no reason to suspect that LVD would have done something so heinous. That the children were actually in mortal danger with LVD.
Just three days before his murder, JJ's babysitter witnessed Lori showering him with affection after a tantrum. An observer would have no clue about what was to happen (or that one murder already took place).
 
Why do you think MM is at the detention center so frequently?

He's chads fill in. Telling Lori how the world is on her side and their righteous calling is more important than ever.

Or...in her typical manipulative way, she's been making a play and he's enamored. She's convincing him to bust her out while professing her love and promising him a leading role in the 144K.

Yup, gotta be one of those two reasons. O_0
 
Since Charles had no children with his first wife, perhaps one of his oldest two sons (with his second wife) was adopted? I now vaguely remember reading something before about another family adoption - will try to find a source.

ETA: I found a confirmation on the WTAF website (who is who section), which likely stems from custody battle documents between Charles and his second wife that the site owners legally obtained a while ago. According to this info, Charles' second son was his nephew prior to adoption.

Yes, that is exactly how I recalled it being said. I guess this has nothing to do with this case... privacy... moving on. Thanks for the verification of such that this is outside discussion more than bringing it up, verifying that it was indeed said, yet non-sleuthable/against TOS at Websleuths for more discussion to probe into.
 
I think the part about Joe's temper was in there primarily to explain why Annie was estranged from Joe until his death; and also maybe a little why Annie put the blame on Joe whilst ignoring Lori's flaws for several years.

Neither the guardian ad litem or evaluating social worker said they believed Joe had sexually abused Tylee OR Colby. They said Lori coached, brainwashed, and manipulated both kids into their statements.

The Dateline crew did a good job of gathering up and integrating lots of loose ends that we couldn't discuss before for lack of their being in MSM; which is great.

I agree. This is my assessment of Annie too. Like Melanie Gibb, Lori has a way of making other women "her best friend", and I think she worked on Annie too.

If and when sexual abuse charges are fabricated....... everyone has to go through such guilt trips, regarding what to believe and what not to believe. I felt it became a "disease" in one of my more distant family threads.... Made me stay away too.
 
Yes, Tammie's sister is on now. Tammie seemed like quite an amazing woman. She knew CD from high school?

I am glad that the FBI was able to check out the firepit, and correlate AC's cellphone data. I am still stunned by how impossibly dense CD and LVD were to bury the children in CD's yard. There is SO much space in that area of Idaho/Montana. Crazy.

The Fremont police didn't come off very good. TD reports a guy with a "paint gun" and less than two weeks later, she is dead?! No autopsy?!

omg, yes!! Remember way back when, when people, psychics, sleuths, metal detectors, vacationers...... were ALL combing the mountain and woods in that area!!!!!!! It was pretty wild...
 
Honestly, I feel like no matter what the response to my statement is going to be, it'll be negative:
Nobody in this family is innocent.
If the grandparents were so concerned about JJ, why were they fighting at the last minute?
If Annie was so concerned about Tylee, why not contact people sooner or even police?


Lots of family traumas roll out in slow motion. Lori was a master at making things look right, and her reputation of being at temple every day probably protected that image even more than usual......

I agree that there should have and could have been lots of actions taken............ but the reality is that some things roll quietly, thought we here are compacting all the data from a past tense.
 
He's chads fill in. Telling Lori how the world is on her side and their righteous calling is more important than ever.

Or...in her typical manipulative way, she's been making a play and he's enamored. She's convincing him to bust her out while professing her love and promising him a leading role in the 144K.

Yup, gotta be one of those two reasons. O_0

Yup, gotta be one of those two reasons. O_0

Hey, love your "eyes" on the case....
 
RE: the family not doing enough.

I strongly disagree, I know the talk you are having is about the extended family but Charles did everything in his power to alert anyone that would listen about Lori, but nobody did.
If anyone didn't do enough, it was Gilbert PD that shrugged off that CRY for help.
 
In the "coulda shoulda" category, I have always felt there was another missed opportunity. When Charles was so passionately pleading with LE about Lori's evils.... he probably could have included the evils she brought to Joe Ryan too. Doubling the evil might have made LE listen more.

But he didn't.

When we were all so sympathetic to Charles' appearance on those LE tapes, I still could not stop thinking about how he probably colluded with Lori to the max to make life living hell for Joe and his daughter Tylee. All the crazy moves, attempted businesses, hi-priced rental homes was all pretty messy, in my mind. And this was not just Lori, this was Charles too.

So he probably couldn't share too much regarding Joe with LE..... but I still believe it was a missed opportunity.
 
eek :-/ That's a troubling thought that I've been overlooking...
Or maybe they were just as naive about the autopsy as they were about nobody ever searching Chad's backyard.

I don't remember reading if Chad knew the coroner personally. Perhaps he thought he could manipulate her. Obviously she and the police officer present didn't find anything strange about Chad's account and his demeanor, or the way Tammy was found. Chad didn't care to find out why his (relatively young) wife suddenly died. IMO that was strange enough. He likely didn't try to sell his tale of Tammy having been ill for a while.
 
eek :-/ That's a troubling thought that I've been overlooking...

Perhaps someone that had been in the "industry" as to burials / lateral industry of grave digging.. would keep up and have known such more than the normal folks as to laws for autopsies in that area? It differs from my area significantly MOO after looking up such.

Conditions for doing such, and what qualifications for those sin my area are a 180 from Rexburg. And would assume for many here.
 
RE: the family not doing enough.

I strongly disagree, I know the talk you are having is about the extended family but Charles did everything in his power to alert anyone that would listen about Lori, but nobody did.
If anyone didn't do enough, it was Gilbert PD that shrugged off that CRY for help.
Charles also took Lori back months after reporting her death threats to police, so... He believed that her crazy was fixed (she must have been convincing). If he had gone through with the divorce, maybe he would still be alive today. He predicted his own death yet he was not fully aware how lethal Lori was.
 
He's chads fill in. Telling Lori how the world is on her side and their righteous calling is more important than ever.

Or...in her typical manipulative way, she's been making a play and he's enamored. She's convincing him to bust her out while professing her love and promising him a leading role in the 144K.

Yup, gotta be one of those two reasons. O_0
I vote for the first option. Doubtful that he's enamored with her; he has his own family that he is proud of. He might be feeling sorry for Lori. Her manipulation likely worked on some level.
 
In the "coulda shoulda" category, I have always felt there was another missed opportunity. When Charles was so passionately pleading with LE about Lori's evils.... he probably could have included the evils she brought to Joe Ryan too. Doubling the evil might have made LE listen more.

But he didn't.

When we were all so sympathetic to Charles' appearance on those LE tapes, I still could not stop thinking about how he probably colluded with Lori to the max to make life living hell for Joe and his daughter Tylee. All the crazy moves, attempted businesses, hi-priced rental homes was all pretty messy, in my mind. And this was not just Lori, this was Charles too.

So he probably couldn't share too much regarding Joe with LE..... but I still believe it was a missed opportunity.
IMO Charles was likely convinced that Joe was a bad guy and that Lori was right in her custody battle. I wonder if he ever changed his mind about Joe. Charles was also fighting with his second wife in court. There are no angels in this story, but only one is a murderer...
 
I always thought the sister-in-law Chad spoke of being against him was his brother’s wife. Guess they both sister-in-laws had reason to be not happy with Chad.

Glad someone from Tammy’s family was able to be heard.


I am getting the feeling that Samantha and family concerns were known to LE before the welfare check for JJ. And one of the detectives that visited were aware of suspicions around her death. When Tammy's weird death intersected with Lori's shell game with JJ (and it turned out that he was not under any of the shells), the hinkyness of both cases increased.

:( Thinking about Tammy, Tylee, JJ and everyone harmed by Lori and Chad. I wish them peace.
 
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