MN - George Floyd, 46, died in police custody, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 #5 - Chauvin Trial Day 2

[Wowno17]

IMO

Even if Mr Floyd didn't die from asphyxiation (I believe he did, but for arguments sake) and he died from something else, I still think it's way he way he was restrained that killed him.

Otherwise you'd have to believe that had things been different that day, and police hadn't attended the scene, that still Mr Floyd would still have come down ill and died at that same time.

No, I believe the actions of the restraint caused his death.

MOO

 

[Bravo]

Night all. Be safe. Be kind.

 

[Rocky1]

But they still didn't render aid while the victim was on the ground, handcuffed, and in obvious distress. Why wait for fire/emt? They're trained in how to help a suspect who is in need of medical assistance until others show up. They never helped him.

Oh, I agree. It's hard to watch him laying there helpless, and they should have. There's no excuse... unless in Chauvin's mind for some reason he may have thought Floyd was faking after hearing him tell them he couldn't breathe before his knee was on his neck. I am looking forward to the 2019 arrest testimony that the defense wanted so badly to present.

 

[SouthAussie]

I assume that the defense can call an expert witness that will say certain parts of the ME report are wrong. JMO

I think there is the ME's report plus two independent autopsies done by George's family that will all need overcoming - if the defense is to be successful in pointing to a different cause of death.

 

[kaen]

the theme I am getting for the past two days is this was a very angry "mob" at that corner and Chauvin et al feared that it could get out of control if they did anything other than stay exactly where they were. As I look and listen to the players here...yes they were loud but most were women, some very young just sort of yelling at them...keeping their distance and I see no reason to fear them. It this had been in another area of the city maybe but this "mob" theme will not fly for the defense...

And we have seen on video that when any of them began to move closer that Tao put his hand on his mace. The crowd was not moving in. If LE felt threatened, they would have called for additional back up. They didn't so I doubt they felt unsafe and Chauvin probably knew that this was going to be an issue if a higher up came on the scene and saw what he has doing to an already unconscious man.

 

[Rocky1]

Night all. Be safe. Be kind.

Good night Bravo. This is a good debate. Enjoy!

 

[kaen]

I have read, in the past, that the defense will research the witnesses (on the sly) to try to find out their weak points. So they can play on them during the trial.

No link ... I don't have time to find one at the moment, so please take this as IMO.
(I will look for one later, when I have more time.)

IN the case of the EMT, she clearly had made statements that she now knows that she was wrong. I wouldn't want to read a report or watch a video I shot recounting a man's death.

 

[SouthAussie]

You may be right, but where as they did a "grab and go" may prove to the jury that even the Ambulance crew saw the crowd at a threat, and the EMT witness may have confirmed that.
She stated that's the reason they move and stop at another location.

I wonder if the ambulance crew had the time to assess the crowd situation, or if the officers said "Grab and go"? Because the officers knew George was dead, and they had snuffed his ability to breathe away from him. I guess we'll find out during the trial.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

I don’ t see Nelson as a jerk. He’s doing his job. He showed that she is/was unprofessional. IMO

I know this it not a topic to be joking about, but after a long day a little humor can go a long way.

He had her in a full Nelson.

 

[Rocky1]

IN the case of the EMT, she clearly had made statements that she now knows that she was wrong. I wouldn't want to read a report or watch a video I shot recounting a man's death.

Perhaps she would have done better if she read her transcripts that Nelson offered her to read to correct the record but she wasn't interested.

 

[Rocky1]

I wonder if the ambulance crew had the time to assess the crowd situation, or if the officers said "Grab and go"? Because the officers knew George was dead, and they had snuffed his ability to breathe away from him. I guess we'll find out during the trial.

That may be. I didn't hear anything they said.

 

[thx4_medic_Babby]

I can’t recall a trial ever starting off by having so many buffoons as a witness. It’s almost embarrassing for being this early on. From not being able to spell their name, to a witness who looked like she had no desire to be there whatsoever.

The EMT was a godsend for the defense, IMO. I thought she was a bit rude, refused testimony, contradictory, and the judge appeared to think so too.

If you haven’t, you owe it to yourself to watch these witnesses so far.

 

[Boodles]

How do you know she has the skills because she said she does. An EMT of 2 years could save GF's life. Did she have Narcan? Did she have oxygen? Did she have a heart monitor? Can she read a heart monitor? Remember she is an EMT. I feel like the witnesses have been highly coached, esp with the 9 yr old girl today. It was a total disgrace. The witnesses&video so far imo have proved to me that there is no respect for law enforcement & that it is a serious problem. I have no dog in this fight, but i will say that if i saw an officer on a guy imo he did something wrong that i am not aware of & i keep walking. Not one of these witnesses tried to calm the crowd. What did they do they all had their phones out. How ridiculous is that? They added more violence to a chaotic situation. Why would Chauvin get off of GF. He had no idea what state Gf was in. He had his eyes on the crowd, not GF. He certainly wasn't going to get off of GF & chance GF getting up & the mob going after the officers with a total loss of control. But, hey in this world we are now living in, that totally would have been okay though.

She has hands. She can take a pulse. She can do chest compressions. She stated her training and experience and how she could have aided in her testimony, under oath. Did you hear what she said?

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Unless it was drugs that killed him, right?

And that will be the looonnnnnng part of the trial. Was it long hauler COVID? (he was positive). Was it the THC (3 different species) on top of the fentanyl at 11 ng/ml mixed coctail with methamphetamine at 19 ng/ml?from hoofing? What caused his lungs to be twice the expected weight? etc. etc. etc.

Nothwithstanding, they did not put him in a recovery position or anything once they knew that he didn't have a pulse. I think we can all agree to that at this time.

 

[Mony Mony]

Late catching up here on all the comments...
What was the point of having the 9 year old girl testify? I am not sure she added anything new, and it was sad to see a child up there.

Regarding the EMTs testimony...what stuck out to me is how she said she knows how to do her job and would not be distracted whatsoever by hecklers, etc.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

She has hands. She can take a pulse. She can do chest compressions. She stated her training and experience and how she could have aided in her testimony, under oath. Did you hear what she said?

I would think there's a high probability that LE is liable for the person who is under arrest. Including the crowd, the scene and it's entirety so giving a random person access to GF wasn't an option.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Late catching up here on all the comments...
What was the point of having the 9 year old girl testify? I am not sure she added anything new, and it was sad to see a child up there.

Regarding the EMTs testimony...what stuck out to me is how she said she knows how to do her job and would not be distracted whatsoever by hecklers, etc.

IMO it was to make the point that the crowd at the scene wasn't an out of control mob.

 

[teedie2]

I was gone all day, and didn't get to watch anything. We are on Spectrum to watch court tv live during the day. Does anyone know where I can watch today's trial tonight so I won't be hopelessly behind.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

IMO Even if Mr Floyd didn't die from asphyxiation (I believe he did, but for arguments sake) and he died from something else, I still think it's way he way he was restrained that killed him.Otherwise you'd have to believe that had things been different that day, and police hadn't attended the scene, that still Mr Floyd would still have come down ill and died at that same time.

No, I believe the actions of the restraint caused his death.

MOO

The medical findings at the heart of Derek Chauvin's defense strategy

March 30, 2021, 5:30 AM EDT

The Hennepin County medical examiner who performed the autopsy, Dr. Andrew Baker, ruled that the cause of death was "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression." "Cardiopulmonary arrest," in layman's terms, means "the heart stopped. The pressure being applied to Floyd's neck and the pressure being applied to his torso, in combination, impeded his oxygenated blood flow, which resulted in his heart stopping....Regarding the torso, if pressure is being applied, it can make it difficult to draw enough oxygen into the lungs to allow for the oxygenation of the blood in the first instance. Therefore, the combination of these applications of force and restraint caused Floyd's heart to stop....

Chauvin's lead defense attorney, Eric Nelson, said Floyd displayed "none of the telltale signs of asphyxiation." There was "no evidence that Mr. Floyd's airflow was restricted," he claimed.

What George Floyd's autopsy results reveal?

The office also listed heart disease and hypertension under Floyd's “other significant conditions.” It also stated that the father-of-one had fentanyl and methamphetamine in his system, as well as being positive for SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes coronavirus. However, those factors were not listed under cause of death.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

Fair enough, but he was saying he couldn't breath before he was taken out of the cruiser. Was Chauvin involved in the 2019 arrest? Was this a pattern of Floyd's to say he can't breath? I'm not saying it was, but I am saying the trial's not over yet and we just don't know.

You bring up an important point and one that bystanders were likely not privy to at the time. He said he couldn’t breathe several times before he was taken to the ground. I wonder if that played any part in LE response to GF saying that he couldn’t breathe when DC was kneeling on him.