MN - George Floyd, 46, died in police custody, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 #6 - Chauvin Trial Day 3

[jennieohhh]

I hope that George Floyd becomes someone our grandkids will learn about in history class. I hope that May 25th 2020 will be remembered as the day that sparked change around the world. I hope that the only name remembered from this in years to come is GF. There are some disgusting comments circulating online and it makes me feel ashamed to be human sometimes but then you hear the testimony of those witnesses and realise good people do exist.
I’m off to bed, beyond angry tonight. I hadn’t ever seen that footage before and I don’t ever want to again. Poor George. He seemed like a gentle giant to me, he didn’t deserve to die like that.

I think that's a bit much. There have been many ppl who have died. I mean no disrespect but GF was no role model. Chauvin is still innocent until proven guilty. GF was foaming at the mouth
Foaming at the Mouth: Caused by Overdose, Seizures, and Rabies

 

[Tom_Servo]

And that’s perfectly fine!!

Despite what I wrote earlier, I am very conflicted about this case. When I first saw the viral video I had the same reaction as most of the world: WTH am I seeing!!

Now, I’m just not so sure it was murder. Negligence.... absolutely. Manslaughter... likely. I guess none of us will really know until ALL the evidence is put forth.

I'm not conflicted about Chauvins guilt. He's guilty of something but I agree with you on the other points. Those that don't perfectly illustrates what a jury can also think. Chauvins actions don't seem to meet the definition of 2nd degree murder based on what's posted here. The definitions lean towards manslaughter and maybe 3rd degree but the jury instruction is going to be interesting. If the judge reads the definitions as posted here they can't convict him of 2nd degree murder. I'm afraid manslaughter and 3rd degree is not going to satisfy the mob though.

 

[margarita25]

Exhibit 1: Map
Exhibit 11: Video taken from camera across the street
Exhibit 17: Photo of DC/his knee on George Floyd’s neck
Exhibit 20: Williams’ 911 call
Exhibit 24- GH’s cell video
Exhibit 25- GH’s 911 call
Exhibits 26, 27, 28- 3 videos taken by minor with her friend’s phone
Exhibit 29- Surveillance video from inside Cup Foods
Exhibit 31- Combination: Surveillance video from inside Cup Foods & Surveillance cam footage from restaurant across 38th St from Cup Foods (Dragon Wok) showing store clerks approaching vehicle that GF and two others are in.
Exhibit 49- Officer Thao’s body cam footage
Exhibit 184- Photo showing bystanders/witnesses

 

[MsBetsy]

I'm not conflicted about Chauvins guilt. He's guilty of something but I agree with you on the other points. Those that don't perfectly illustrates what a jury can also think. Chauvins actions don't seem to meet the definition of 2nd degree murder based on what's posted here. The definitions lean towards manslaughter and maybe 3rd degree but the jury instruction is going to be interesting. If the judge reads the definitions as posted here they can't convict him of 2nd degree murder. I'm afraid manslaughter and 3rd degree is not going to satisfy the mob though.

I don't see why Chauvin's actions wouldn't meet the definition of second degree murder. The use of excessive force could be interpreted as 3rd degree assault, especially if they believe it was a significant factor in his death.

 

[RANCH]

I know that in criminal trials a defendants past acts are not always allowed to be used against them. JMO

The following is from "Minnesota Court Rules."

Rule 404.Character Evidence Not Admissible to Prove Conduct; Exceptions; Other Crimes
(a)Character evidence generally.
Evidence of a person's character or a trait of character is not admissible for the purpose of proving action in conformity therewith on a particular occasion, except:

(1) Character of accused. Evidence of a pertinent trait of character offered by an accused, or by the prosecution to rebut the same;

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/court_rules/ev/id/404/

So this section describes how the accused can offer up past acts and if he or she does so the prosecution can rebut it. Otherwise not admissible.

 

[stargazer17]

With all of us knowing the end result of this arrest, it is very difficult to separate emotion from fact. I would truly hate being a juror in such a high profile case.

Having read many of the comments posted, it is easy to see which are based on emotional interpretation of events versus those which are more analytical.

The prosecution, IMO, was smart to have all this emotional witness testimony at the onset of the trial.
That said, I do hope the jurors are able to analyze all the information presented to them without personal sentiment interfering in their judgments.

Having viewed the body cam videos, I can honestly say that up until the point that DC kept his knee on GFs neck beyond a reasonable timeframe, the police appear to have behaved in accordance with procedure, IMO

Totally agree!

 

[RANCH]

I don't see why Chauvin's actions wouldn't meet the definition of second degree murder. The use of excessive force could be interpreted as 3rd degree assault, especially if they believe it was a significant factor in his death.

609.223 ASSAULT IN THE THIRD DEGREE.
Subdivision 1.Substantial bodily harm.
Whoever assaults another and inflicts substantial bodily harm may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than five years or to payment of a fine of not more than $10,000, or both.

I would like to know the jury instruction on what "substantial bodily harm" is. To me it means some pretty bad physical injuries. I could be wrong though.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.223

 

[RANCH]

I know that in criminal trials a defendants past acts are not always allowed to be used against them. JMO

In section (b) of the character evidence rules there is this.

(b)Other crimes, wrongs, or acts.
(1) Evidence of another crime, wrong, or act is not admissible to prove the character of a person in order to show action in conformity therewith. It may, however, be admissible for other purposes, such as proof of motive, opportunity, intent, preparation, plan, knowledge, identity, or absence of mistake or accident.

I am not a lawyer but it looks like this is about premeditation which the State is not alleging in this case. JMO

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/court_rules/ev/id/404/

 

[In vino veritas]

I firmly believe this case is going to be decided on the autopsy/ toxicology results.

I have a vague recollection reading several months ago that the ME who performed the autopsy cited no evidence of asphyxiation. I seem to recall reading at the time that the original autopsy did not reference homicide, but was amended after discussion with one of the offices... DA, AG??

I tried to go back and research, but could not find anything definitive.
Does anyone here on WS recollect anything similar??

IF this , in fact, is an accurate recollection, would a mistrial be declared??

 

[Tom_Servo]

I don't see why Chauvin's actions wouldn't meet the definition of second degree murder. The use of excessive force could be interpreted as 3rd degree assault, especially if they believe it was a significant factor in his death.

Unless I misread the definition posted here yesterday it stated a 2nd degree murder charge was based on simultaneously committing a felony. I don't think anyone can say or even prove that Chauvin was committing a felony. I don't see that. I see a reckless cop, not a guy who was thinking "hey I'm going to kill this guy". The prosecution isn't even trying to imply that which is what would rise to the level of 2nd degree.

 

[Cool Cats]

This has always bothered me:

EXPLAINER: Use-of-force experts evaluate Floyd arrest
"The charge of trying to use a counterfeit bill would have been a simple misdemeanor under Minnesota law, and in many cases that can be handled with a ticket...

...officers should have been asking whether Floyd knew the bill was counterfeit and whether he had others in his possession."

I do not believe the cops would have treated all "persons of interest" the way they treated GF.

They treated him as if he had tried to literally rob the place.

So I ask myself this alot - How would it be for ME ?

So I'm at my local gas station and I pay with a $20 bill. Then I'm pumping gas and a cop car pulls up with a couple officers coming out. They go inside to get the clerk's statement and the clerk shows them why the bill looks counterfeit.

The clerk points me out and they come to my car with the bill in hand. They ask me if I paid with this bill and I say I paid with a $20 but don't know if that is the one.

So they then go on to explain to me the situation and try to get my reaction, try to gauge whether I may have deliberately passed a counterfeit bill.

I give them permission to search my purse, wallet and car and nothing comes up.
They have already checked my criminal record and see that I'm "clean."

They have all my information and tell me they are going to investigate further and ask what phone number can they reach me on.

Then they let me go and I have a weird story to tell my family and friends.
I then call my attorney who I have used before and tell him everything.

He tells me all the reassuring things I need to know and what to say if I'm contacted again, which is to say "you will have to talk to my attorney" at which point I give them my attorney's information.

So case closed for now. I never saw a pair of handcuffs and no one shouted at me.

Hummm......

 

[Boodles]

With all of us knowing the end result of this arrest, it is very difficult to separate emotion from fact. I would truly hate being a juror in such a high profile case.

Having read many of the comments posted, it is easy to see which are based on emotional interpretation of events versus those which are more analytical.

The prosecution, IMO, was smart to have all this emotional witness testimony at the onset of the trial.
That said, I do hope the jurors are able to analyze all the information presented to them without personal sentiment interfering in their judgments.

Having viewed the body cam videos, I can honestly say that up until the point that DC kept his knee on GFs neck beyond a reasonable timeframe, the police appear to have behaved in accordance with procedure, IMO

Bolded by me. But the only reason we’re here is due to the point where DC decided to knee George in the neck to the point of death. Or maybe when they dragged him out of the car. Idk about that part...I couldn’t watch the entire torture episode.

 

[RANCH]

I firmly believe this case is going to be decided on the autopsy/ toxicology results.

I have a vague recollection reading several months ago that the ME who performed the autopsy cited no evidence of asphyxiation. I seem to recall reading at the time that the original autopsy did not reference homicide, but was amended after discussion with one of the offices... DA, AG??

I tried to go back and research, but could not find anything definitive.
Does anyone here on WS recollect anything similar??

IF this , in fact, is an accurate recollection, would a mistrial be declared??

I think this is what you remember.

Nationwide, people expressed outrage when prosecutors released the preliminary findings of George Floyd’s autopsy, highlighting cardiovascular disease and “potential intoxicants” in his system, as if those factors might explain his death as police officers pinned him to the ground.

But neither Baker nor his office had released those findings. He was still performing Floyd’s autopsy at the time. The preliminary findings were summarized by prosecutors in the initial charging documents against former officer Derek Chauvin, the veteran Minneapolis police officer who had pinned his knee onto Floyd’s neck for nearly 8 minutes as Floyd begged for air and witnesses pleaded with officers to stop.

George Floyd's autopsy puts Hennepin County Medical Examiner Andrew Baker in the hot seat

 

[Tippy Lynn]

I firmly believe this case is going to be decided on the autopsy/ toxicology results.

I have a vague recollection reading several months ago that the ME who performed the autopsy cited no evidence of asphyxiation. I seem to recall reading at the time that the original autopsy did not reference homicide, but was amended after discussion with one of the offices... DA, AG??

I tried to go back and research, but could not find anything definitive.
Does anyone here on WS recollect anything similar??

IF this , in fact, is an accurate recollection, would a mistrial be declared??

This might be what you are looking for.

MN - George Floyd, 46, died in police custody, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 #5 - Chauvin Trial Day 2

Read: George Floyd autopsy report, with cause of death

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

I firmly believe this case is going to be decided on the autopsy/ toxicology results.

I have a vague recollection reading several months ago that the ME who performed the autopsy cited no evidence of asphyxiation. I seem to recall reading at the time that the original autopsy did not reference homicide, but was amended after discussion with one of the offices... DA, AG??

I tried to go back and research, but could not find anything definitive.
Does anyone here on WS recollect anything similar??

IF this , in fact, is an accurate recollection, would a mistrial be declared??

County Officials Rule George Floyd Death Was A Homicide

The Hennepin County Medical Examiner released a new autopsy report Monday, ruling George Floyd's death was a homicide. The office said Floyd's heart and lungs stopped functioning "while being restrained" by law enforcement officers.
(snip)

In charging documents released last week, prosecutors said that preliminary results from an autopsy "revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation."
(snip)

The new findings come after six days of angry protests have cascaded across the U.S., leading to violent confrontations between law enforcement and demonstrators and journalists.

 

[In vino veritas]

County Officials Rule George Floyd Death Was A Homicide

The Hennepin County Medical Examiner released a new autopsy report Monday, ruling George Floyd's death was a homicide. The office said Floyd's heart and lungs stopped functioning "while being restrained" by law enforcement officers.
(snip)

In charging documents released last week, prosecutors said that preliminary results from an autopsy "revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation."
(snip)

The new findings come after six days of angry protests have cascaded across the U.S., leading to violent confrontations between law enforcement and demonstrators and journalists.

I believe this is what I remember seeing. I inferred from the phrasing that the new autopsy was released with the homicide ruling in order to mitigate the protest response.
Still reads like that to me.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

County Officials Rule George Floyd Death Was A Homicide

The Hennepin County Medical Examiner released a new autopsy report Monday, ruling George Floyd's death was a homicide. The office said Floyd's heart and lungs stopped functioning "while being restrained" by law enforcement officers.
(snip)

In charging documents released last week, prosecutors said that preliminary results from an autopsy "revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation."
(snip)

The new findings come after six days of angry protests have cascaded across the U.S., leading to violent confrontations between law enforcement and demonstrators and journalists.

So....let me get this straight. The autopsy report has been changed? And that's ok? Maybe people should realize and let this sink in, that if the justice system is rigged for or against one person for whatever reason, it will not be fair for them if they ever need it. Just sayin'. JMOO MOO, IMHO Unpopular opinion or whatever.

 

[Weki]

I think what Chauvin did could be viewed as an assault. That is not far fetched in the least. Assault is the felony required to satisfy the 2nd degree murder charge. And to prove that the assault substantially contributed to the death. By refusing to roll him to his side, and render aid when GF went limp and stopped speaking despite being told by the officer he couldn’t feel his pulse, ignoring all of GF’s pleas and complaints about not being able to breathe, continuing to lay there for so long - there’s enough here for an assault. It’s not intentional murder but state doesn’t have to prove that for 2nd degree.

 

[In vino veritas]

So....let me get this straight. The autopsy report has been changed? And that's ok? Maybe people should realize and let this sink in, that if the justice system is rigged for or against one person for whatever reason, it will not be fair for them if they ever need it. Just sayin'. JMOO MOO, IMHO Unpopular opinion or whatever.

Based on the wording in that article, it certainly appears that way.... the implication being it was amended to diffuse the protests.
If there’s ANY truth to this being the case, the defense attorney should be all over it when he presents his case. And IF it is true , a mistrial should be declared.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Based on the wording in that article, it certainly appears that way.... the implication being it was amended to diffuse the protests.
If there’s ANY truth to this being the case, the defense attorney should be all over it when he presents his case. And IF it is true , a mistrial should be declared.

Oh, that will work *eyeroll*. Sacrifice people's lives so that maybe "protests" (riots actually) won't happen. IMHO our justice system is being bent and twisted and held hostage. I don't like that one bit. JMHO MOO IMHO. All that will accomplish is that riots will be threatened any time certain people aren't happy with a verdict.