MN - George Floyd, 46, died in police custody, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 #6 - Chauvin Trial Day 3

[Cubby]

I can't get over some of the comments made to the crowd.It's like is wasn't even about George anymore but showing the crowd who was boss even when another cop expressed concern for him.

Clearly Chauvin was purposely being obstinate. His eyes spoke obstinate as if he was just thinking, how dare anyone tell me how to do my job.

Medical incident aside, the two most important things for myself are whether George was seated before being yanked out back seat, and if it was Chauvin saying "Get him out" on the body cam video.

If I am correct about the two above thoughts then Chauvin should be convicted.

Its clear Floyd was having a medical incident. He was whiny, complaining, and Chauvin acted like a parent who just lost patience with a child having a temper tantrum.

 

[In vino veritas]

Clearly Chauvin was purposely being obstinate. His eyes spoke obstinate as if he was just thinking, how dare anyone tell me how to do my job.

Medical incident aside, the two most important things for myself are whether George was seated before being yanked out back seat, and if it was Chauvin saying "Get him out" on the body cam video.

If I am correct about the two above thoughts then Chauvin should be convicted.

Its clear Floyd was having a medical incident. He was whiny, complaining, and Chauvin acted like a parent who just lost patience with a child having a temper tantrum.

Having viewed the body cam videos, I don’t believe GF was ever “seated” in the police car. In fact, he was actively resisting getting in, claiming claustrophobic and “ I can’t breath” numerous times. In fact, it was GF who expressed a desire to be on the ground.

 

[Cool Cats]

With all of us knowing the end result of this arrest, it is very difficult to separate emotion from fact. I would truly hate being a juror in such a high profile case.

Having read many of the comments posted, it is easy to see which are based on emotional interpretation of events versus those which are more analytical.

The prosecution, IMO, was smart to have all this emotional witness testimony at the onset of the trial.
That said, I do hope the jurors are able to analyze all the information presented to them without personal sentiment interfering in their judgments.

Having viewed the body cam videos, I can honestly say that up until the point that DC kept his knee on GFs neck beyond a reasonable timeframe, the police appear to have behaved in accordance with procedure, IMO

BBM

Apparently DC's attorney thinks as you say:

"the police appear to have behaved in accordance with procedure"

But with one difference from you, that being:

LE behaved in accordance with procedure...the entire time..!

If we can look it up and see that neck pressure is not what they can use, established in 2016, then the attorney knows it. Why pretend otherwise?

 

[margarita25]

View attachment 290726
View attachment 290727

These screenshots are from Day 1 video of Washington Post, beginning at 4:11:17 in the video. As is hard to see... I'll do a quicky read and do quick highlights here. Others can expound upon. I have much of this in transcription but thought too long to post here.

20:02:13 Call place from cashier to 911 call taker ID CT031779. Says counterfeit bill/blue mercedez/plz run plate/describes GF/says he appears under influence. This info goes to screen in police car.
...........getting back up requests... including park police
20:04:02 - Officers on site and asking to run plate
20:11:02 - Officers have removed him from patrol car
20:20:11 - Call in for EMS Code 2 non emergent for mouth injury
20:21:35 - 330 (LE folks) call for code 3 (get here quick)
20:27:21 - Information for EMS, PD has him restrained on ground
20:28:36 - Paramedic rig code 3 asking for fire - The EMS folks entered this information. (per her testimony, they are asking for additional support)
20:31:12 Per engine 412 firerig response, EMS is at Park and 36th as they have left the scene.
20:32:02 EMS would like the fire department for Pt condition at their new location. (per her testimony, this was because she didn't know what was going on so she asked her other agencies via METCOM radio.. she got info on radio and put into system)
20:34:10 - EMS paramedics reporting into system saying he is in full arrest
20:34:30 - EMS is saying working full arrest
20: She added fire dept is in route to park and 36th
20:36:07 Fire dispatch saying engine 17 fire is 2 minutes out to park and 36th
20:48:23 EMS says they are headed to hospital - (e.d. they had stopped resuscitation efforts
20:55:06 LE put directly into car computer they are headed to HCMC ... status of the AP


I wonder do these times of reports jibe with what the timing is on the street videos as to timely reports by LE etc? It looks like they didn't call for EMS until 9 minutes after he was on the ground??!! (20:11 ---. 20:20) Is this correct??? It appears they didn't even say restrained on ground for some time. I think I'm off here, help!

Screenshots are from below... starting about 4:12:43 Day 1 from dispatcher testimony (e.d. not to be confused with 911 call taker/operator.. they are in different rooms..)

Thank you, Dixie, for taking the time to do this, and thanks everyone for the updates.

 

[Gibbo214]

BBM

Apparently DC's attorney thinks as you say:

"the police appear to have behaved in accordance with procedure"

But with one difference from you, that being:

LE behaved in accordance with procedure...the entire time..!

If we can look it up and see that neck pressure is not what they can use, established in 2016, then the attorney knows it. Why pretend otherwise?

It wasn't only neck pressure, it was also two men applying pressure to his back just where his lungs were.

 

[Cool Cats]

It wasn't only neck pressure, it was also two men applying pressure to his back just where his lungs were.

That must be why they are on trial also...lung pressure

 

[ilovewings]

Eggshell skull - Wikipedia

This is a very interesting read: I was involved as a paralegal in Health Care Risk Management for many years and also worked for a plaintiff attorney with respect to personal injury: There is a rule (as described in this article) that " a tortfeasor is liable for all consequences resulting from their tortious (usually negligent) activities leading to an injury to another person, even if the victim suffers an unusually high level of damage. We call plaintiffs like this "eggshell plaintiffs"- for example, if someone slips and falls on the premises of a business and sustains serious injury- the defendant cannot use the fact the plaintiff already had serious arthritis or prior pre-existing injuries to get out of the case. In other words: you take the plaintiff as you get them.

I wondered if the same rule/law applies to criminal cases, and this article states it does.
In criminal law the defendant "takes their victims as they find them". So, in the case of Mr. Floyd- he was complaining he COULD NOT BREATHE before Chauvin held his knee on Mr. Floyd's neck for 9 min and 20 seconds. The defense has to take the victim as they found him - this makes their duty even greater because THEY KNEW HE COMPLAINED HE COULD NOT BREATHE BEFORE THE COP PUT A KNEE ON HIS NECK-- Mr. Floyd was already an eggshell plaintiff and therefore Chauvin could be held responsible for his death IMO.

The defense is going to throw up all the cardiovascular findings, toxicology findings,etc but does anyone believe, that but for the knee on the neck, this man would not be alive today?

 

[Cubby]

Having viewed the body cam videos, I don’t believe GF was ever “seated” in the police car. In fact, he was actively resisting getting in, claiming claustrophobic and “ I can’t breath” numerous times. In fact, it was GF who expressed a desire to be on the ground.

I thought I caught a glimpse of George seated in the rear passenger side of the cruiser before being pulled out. I have had court tv on all day. I'm off work this week so have it on non stop. I'm hoping to find which of those body cams showed him seated. Even if only briefly.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Eggshell skull - Wikipedia

This is a very interesting read: I was involved as a paralegal in Health Care Risk Management for many years and also worked for a plaintiff attorney with respect to personal injury: There is a rule (as described in this article) that " a tortfeasor is liable for all consequences resulting from their tortious (usually negligent) activities leading to an injury to another person, even if the victim suffers an unusually high level of damage. We call plaintiffs like this "eggshell plaintiffs"- for example, if someone slips and falls on the premises of a business and sustains serious injury- the defendant cannot use the fact the plaintiff already had serious arthritis or prior pre-existing injuries to get out of the case. In other words: you take the plaintiff as you get them.

I wondered if the same rule/law applies to criminal cases, and this article states it does.
In criminal law the defendant "takes their victims as they find them". So, in the case of Mr. Floyd- he was complaining he COULD NOT BREATHE before Chauvin held his knee on Mr. Floyd's neck for 9 min and 20 seconds. The defense has to take the victim as they found him - this makes their duty even greater because THEY KNEW HE COMPLAINED HE COULD NOT BREATHE BEFORE THE COP PUT A KNEE ON HIS NECK-- Mr. Floyd was already an eggshell plaintiff and therefore Chauvin is responsible for his death IMO.

The defense is going to throw up all the cardiovascular findings, toxicology findings,etc but does anyone believe, that but for the knee on the neck, this man would not be alive today?

The charges should reflect that then. I believe DC was not charged correctly. I do not believe it was murder. More of a homicide, manslaughter situation. I mean, DC knew he was being filmed by several different witnesses, would he have purposely have murdered GF? I think DC was being a monumental jerk and showing off for the onlookers. But I don't believe GF's death was murder. MOO

 

[thx4_medic_Babby]

Eggshell skull - Wikipedia

This is a very interesting read: I was involved as a paralegal in Health Care Risk Management for many years and also worked for a plaintiff attorney with respect to personal injury: There is a rule (as described in this article) that " a tortfeasor is liable for all consequences resulting from their tortious (usually negligent) activities leading to an injury to another person, even if the victim suffers an unusually high level of damage. We call plaintiffs like this "eggshell plaintiffs"- for example, if someone slips and falls on the premises of a business and sustains serious injury- the defendant cannot use the fact the plaintiff already had serious arthritis or prior pre-existing injuries to get out of the case. In other words: you take the plaintiff as you get them.

I wondered if the same rule/law applies to criminal cases, and this article states it does.
In criminal law the defendant "takes their victims as they find them". So, in the case of Mr. Floyd- he was complaining he COULD NOT BREATHE before Chauvin held his knee on Mr. Floyd's neck for 9 min and 20 seconds. The defense has to take the victim as they found him - this makes their duty even greater because THEY KNEW HE COMPLAINED HE COULD NOT BREATHE BEFORE THE COP PUT A KNEE ON HIS NECK-- Mr. Floyd was already an eggshell plaintiff and therefore Chauvin is responsible for his death IMO.

The defense is going to throw up all the cardiovascular findings, toxicology findings,etc but does anyone believe, that but for the knee on the neck, this man would not be alive today?

https://mncourts.gov/mncourtsgov/media/High-Profile-Cases/27-CR-20-12949-TT/Exhibit112112020.pdf

[“absent suspicious circumstances, if Floyd had been found dead in his bed with the level of fentanyl in his blood that was present for this autopsy, it may be classified a fentanyl fatality due to the level of fentanyl.”]
—
I could also ask the reverse: if drugs didn’t play a part, shouldn’t there be a accumulation of statistics proving other fatalities via this technique?

 

[Gibbo214]

That must be why they are on trial also...lung pressure

They acted in concert IMO.

 

[ilovewings]

The charges should reflect that then. I believe DC was not charged correctly. I do not believe it was murder. More of a homicide, manslaughter situation. I mean, DC knew he was being filmed by several different witnesses, would he have purposely have murdered GF? I think DC was being a monumental jerk and showing off for the onlookers. But I don't believe GF's death was murder. MOO

He is not being charged for intentional murder and there is a charge
of manslaughter

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

He is not being charged for intentional murder and there is a charge
of manslaughter

Judge approves 3rd-degree murder charge for ex-cop in George Floyd death.

 

[CrimeAway]

Oh, that will work *eyeroll*. Sacrifice people's lives so that maybe "protests" (riots actually) won't happen. IMHO our justice system is being bent and twisted and held hostage. I don't like that one bit. JMHO MOO IMHO. All that will accomplish is that riots will be threatened any time certain people aren't happy with a verdict.

In my opinion, it is vitally important that the justice system is NOT held hostage to either politics or popular opinion (though I conceed that may already be the case at times).

I think that the past 15 months has shown that every individual person and their experiences SHOULD matter.
Unfortunately, we are not all afforded equal opportunity in life.
I don't know how to solve this, but I guess acknowledging it, is the first step.
I don't think that pandering to popular opinion is the best long term solution to complex problems.
Evidence, science, critical thinking, considering alternative viewpoints, and empathy are vital IMHO, and I'm glad that Websleuths provides a place to discuss these things.

 

[missy1974]

BBM

Apparently DC's attorney thinks as you say:

"the police appear to have behaved in accordance with procedure"

But with one difference from you, that being:

LE behaved in accordance with procedure...the entire time..!

If we can look it up and see that neck pressure is not what they can use, established in 2016, then the attorney knows it. Why pretend otherwise?

do you have a link to them not being able to use it anymore as of 2016? I only recall that it was still part of their training when this happened, but that might have come from the media... not sure they are credible anymore lol

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed> ... I would be terrified to be a Black man in Minneapolis (and many other places)! Could that be why Mr Floyd panicked about being put in the car? And could it also be why Chauvin was so relaxed when he dug his knee into Mr Floyd until he died, figuring nothing would happen to him? Chauvin was afraid of no one, and certainly not of previous protests IMO.

IMHO GF panicked because he had drugs on him and was a convicted felon who would have been dealt with severely and probably re- incarcerated if he had been arrested and brought to trial. So he ingested the drugs to hide them and ended up OD'ing. JMOO

 

[margarita25]

(I’m bummed, no way I can work, sleep and keep up with everything re: this trial. I wish I had the time to watch the hours and hours of testimony...it’s just not going to be practical going forward due to work, so I know I’ll be missing a lot, so again, thanks for the updates in advance.)

 

[Lilibet]

True, but I think Mr. McMillian is also still very emotional about losing his own mother a month after George died.

Jmho

Mr McMillan may very well still be emotional from losing his mother. But that doesn’t change anything about the pathos of the tears he shed today IMO. It seems very likely to me that hearing Mr Floyd call out to his mother as he died just a few weeks earlier is understandably tangled up with his grief for his mother. Trauma and grief on top of trauma and grief. These emotions are not compartmentalized and his tears can be for both without his tears for his mother diluting his tears for Mr Floyd in court today IMO.

 

[Reasonable & Just]

So....let me get this straight. The autopsy report has been changed? And that's ok? Maybe people should realize and let this sink in, that if the justice system is rigged for or against one person for whatever reason, it will not be fair for them if they ever need it. Just sayin'. JMOO MOO, IMHO Unpopular opinion or whatever.

Oh, I think people know it isn't fair.

 

[CrimeAway]

(I’m bummed, no way I can work, sleep and keep up with everything re: this trial. I wish I had the time to watch the hours and hours of testimony...it’s just not going to be practical going forward due to work, so I know I’ll be missing a lot, so again, thanks for the updates in advance.)

Love to you, and all those posters who have kept us updated on so many cases.
I've become consumed with this case, more than I ever thought I would be, and my emotions have detracted me from my normal life.

How I wish things had happened differently that day