MN - George Floyd, 46, died in police custody, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 #7 - Chauvin Trial Day 4

[dixiegirl1035]

I literally cheered when the Judge allowed the question and witness answered the obvious.

Imo, 3rd degree is met.

Someone a few threads back did great compilation of differences of the three charges. Can someone that has at their tips please repost as I cannot find.

TIA

 

[GoJacks]

If the bystanders were so volatile and ready to pounce...why didn't they call for back-up...instead of having Officer Thao prancing around with his hand in his pockets...smirking.

Ha, right? If they were really worried about the crowd we KNOW that would have happened.

Defense really needs to give up on this volatile crowd thing. We already met the 4 kids, off duty EMT/FF, 60+ year old man, etc. I don't think anyone is buying into this volatile crowd BS. If you can't take someone swearing at you - sorry maybe the public servant lifestyle isn't for you.

At no point (shown so far, at least) have they shown the crowd to be any sort of a threat, minus some name calling.

 

[Weki]

The Chief of Police is coming tomorrow to finish what Sergeant Norton started today!! I think having this testimony FROM THE POLICE (not use of force experts!) is extremely beneficial for the state. The latter part of this trial will be all medical experts! And that stuff can get tedious because both sides will have an expert!

ETA: By the way, listening to the local stations it’s obvious there was a cover up in the first few days. They were saying “medical complications” and apparently that’s what started the outrage. This is why I watch the local streams cause you get these key tidbits.

 

[MsBetsy]

I haven't been able to catch up on the comments here but watched most of the testimony today. If the jury is feeling anything like I am they are bored, yawning and wonder why the same questions are being asked over and over and over again. I find the prosecutors questioning with the first responders as horribly repetitive. Essentially you are getting the exact same answers to the exact same questions from each of these witnesses. Some of the details are so minor I was expecting them to ask what side of the bed they got up from that morning. Much of it IMHO was completely unnecessary.

That's probably because they want the jury to hear over and over again that Floyd stopped breathing before police called for emergency medical attention, Floyd had no pulse while they continued to restrain him, and Floyd was already dead before the ambulance arrived and the officers did nothing to save him.

 

[Algo214]

Wish that last question about the bystanders desperately pleading not constituting a threat would've been allowed, but he worded it wrong maybe

Would you agree that the intensity of the pleadings from people witnessing an event is not enough to constitute a threat?

 

[CrimeAway]

I haven't been able to catch up on the comments here but watched most of the testimony today. If the jury is feeling anything like I am they are bored, yawning and wonder why the same questions are being asked over and over and over again. I find the prosecutors questioning with the first responders as horribly repetitive. Essentially you are getting the exact same answers to the exact same questions from each of these witnesses. Some of the details are so minor I was expecting them to ask what side of the bed they got up from that morning. Much of it IMHO was completely unnecessary.

I think that the female prosecution attorney was unnecessarily verbose and confusing with her questions, but I do see the points she was trying to get at.

We all probably have a better than average grasp of basic medical, LE and legal concepts here on WS than the average person.

The prosecution needs to use the witnesses to explain to the jury what CPR is, what it means to have no pulse etc. and why it is bad and needs to be corrected quickly.
They need to establish that the time GF was restrained, the way he was restrained, and the failure of DC to stop the restraint and administer immediate first aid contributed to GF's death. (IMO)
They are also trying to show that DC had a "duty of care" towards Mr. Floyd, that DC veered from approved methods of restraint as taught by the police department etc. etc.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

IMO, Nelson is trying to bring up multiple possible reasons to lessen Chauvin's culpability for Floyd's ultimate demise, and plant seeds of 'reasonable doubt' for the jury.

Like it or not, I think that Mr Nelson is doing a good job for his client so far. Having access to a competent defense is an important cornerstone of a fair justice system.

Can folks list what those seeds might be? Or top 5 at least? TIA

 

[UKslueth2018]

The Chief of Police is coming tomorrow to finish what Sergeant Norton started today!! I think having this testimony FROM THE POLICE (not use of force experts!) is extremely beneficial for the state. The latter part of this trial will be all medical experts! And that stuff can get tedious because both sides will have an expert!

ETA: By the way, listening to the local stations it’s obvious there was a cover up in the first few days. They were saying “medical complications” and apparently that’s what started the outrage. This is why I watch the local streams cause you get these key tidbits.

Will make sure I am here for start of that! I missed first hour or so today xx

 

[dixiegirl1035]

That's probably because they want the jury to hear over and over again that Floyd stopped breathing before police called for emergency medical attention, Floyd had no pulse while they continued to restrain him, and Floyd was already dead before the ambulance arrived and the officers did nothing to save him.

I think it was called in as a code 3 before he wasn't responsive. I want to say 8:21ish was called in as code 3? @dixiegirl1035 will know the answer to this!

@missy1974

This is most recent one... haven't updated it yesterday/today... I'll do this weekend with references of where the information is from. There may be subtle mistake in here, I'll try to catch and do a good job!

20:02:13 Call place from cashier to 911 call taker ID CT031779. Says counterfeit bill/blue mercedez/plz run plate/describes GF/says he appears under influence. This info goes to screen in police car.
...........getting back up requests... including park police
20:04:02 - Officers on site and asking to run plate
20:11:02 - Officers have removed him from patrol car
20:20:11 - Call in for EMS Code 2 non emergent for mouth injury
20:21:35 - 330 (LE folks) call for code 3 (get here quick)
20:26:25 - MY GUESS SO FAR ON HIS LAST BREATHS/LAST AGONAL BREATHING
20:27:21 - Information for EMS, PD has him restrained on ground
20:28:05 ***FROM TESTIMONY DAY 3 AMBULANCE ARRIVES AT THE SCENE-SCREENSHOT FROM COURT FEED

20:28:36 - Paramedic rig code 3 asking for fire - The EMS folks entered this information. (per her testimony, they are asking for additional support)
20:31:12 Per engine 412 firerig response, EMS is at Park and 36th as they have left the scene.
20:32:02 EMS would like the fire department for Pt condition at their new location. (per her testimony, this was because she didn't know what was going on so she asked her other agencies via METCOM radio.. she got info on radio and put into system)
20:34:10 - EMS paramedics reporting into system saying he is in full arrest
20:34:30 - EMS is saying working full arrest
20: She added fire dept is in route to park and 36th
20:36:07 Fire dispatch saying engine 17 fire is 2 minutes out to park and 36th
20:48:23 EMS says they are headed to hospital - (e.d. they had stopped resuscitation efforts
20:55:06 LE put directly into car computer they are headed to HCMC ... status of the AP

Thanks folks. Watching back Officer Lane's bodycam I can hear him call it in originally now. Still can't hear him upgrading it to a Code 3 at the 20:21:35 point stated in the Timeline above. It comes over the radio at 20:26:35 about "EMS are on Portland, (they were advised?) to go to Code 3..." Lane asks "to what?" and Chauvin and Keung then confirm Code 3 was stated.... Still a bit unclear I think.

Yes, it was car 330 (Chauvin and Thao) that called in the upgrade to code 3 (Lane and Keung were in car 320 on the dispatch screen. That is why Chauvin/Thao confirmed as one of them is who called the code 3 in and perhaps why Lane asked "to what?". MOO

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Wish that last question about the bystanders desperately pleading not constituting a threat would've been allowed, but he worded it wrong maybe

Would you agree that the intensity of the pleadings from people witnessing an event is not enough to constitute a threat?

And differentiation of threat vs. needing focus as was stated by EMTs... one person can do chest compressions vs knee on neck at the very least on a battlefield!

 

[Cubby]

IMO, Nelson is trying to bring up multiple possible reasons to lessen Chauvin's culpability for Floyd's ultimate demise, and plant seeds of 'reasonable doubt' for the jury.

Like it or not, I think that Mr Nelson is doing a good job for his client so far. Having access to a competent defense is an important cornerstone of a fair justice system.

I agree. I think he's doing the best he can with what he has to work with.

 

[Inthedetails]

And differentiation of threat vs. needing focus as was stated by EMTs... one person can do chest compressions vs knee on neck at the very least on a battlefield!

If it were so dangerous that LE couldn't administer aid, why did they allow EMTs to arrive and administer aid? Makes no sense.

jmo

 

[CrimeAway]

Can you list what those seeds might be? Or top 5 at least? TIA

1) Medical conditions GF suffered from (unknown to DC at the time):
(I) under the influence of methamphetamine (can cause agitation, illogical behavior, paranoia. Can cause increase in HR, BP, RR. Can contribute to cardiac problems, including hypertrophy and pulmonary hypertension). Meth can also cause pupil dilation (remember the questions about that today?)
(II) Under the influence of opiods (fentanyl). Opiods can adversely affect the lungs themselves, as well as depressing the respiratory drive which is controlled by the brain.
The effects of opioids on the lung - PubMed
(III) may bring up other health issues.

2) Trouble getting Mr Floyd in car and scuffle to get him out to show that restraint was necessary.

3) Dept training manual to show that SOME kind of neck restraint had been covered in training.

4) Previous problems with crowds (Nelson asked the ret Sgt this) to add to concerns about the crowd and whatever distraction it may cause.

5) Tunnel Vision (recognized concept in stressful situations). Sometimes, your brain doesn't see/hear/perceive/prioritize stimuli normally in high stress situations) Remember, that Nelson asked Ms Hanson about that.

I also think that the questions over response time of EMS/Fire could be seen to aid the defense, as they open the door to lessening full responsibility from DC. Would he have had a better outcome if they had got there sooner?

Note, I am not agreeing or disagreeing with the merits of any of the above ideas. I just think that they could be strategies the defense may use.

 

[tara83]

I agree. I think he's doing the best he can with what he has to work with.

I just don't think acting like the worried people are a violent mob are going to win him points with the jury.

 

[Cubby]

Wish that last question about the bystanders desperately pleading not constituting a threat would've been allowed, but he worded it wrong maybe

Would you agree that the intensity of the pleadings from people witnessing an event is not enough to constitute a threat?

Every single plea from each of the witnesses was a reminder to Chauvin to redirect his attention to the suspect AND to remind him what attention the suspect needed.

Imo each plea was Chauvin's reminder to do the right thing, and with each plea he chose not too.

 

[CrimeAway]

Someone a few threads back did great compilation of differences of the three charges. Can someone that has at their tips please repost as I cannot find.

TIA

View attachment 290959

Does anyone have a quick comparison between 3rd degree murder and 2nd degree manslaughter in MN.

I would Google, but I really have to go and finish making dinner for my dogs

 

[Weki]

So let’s say hypothetically speaking police are called to a group comprising of teenagers, an off duty firefighter, an MMA fighter/security guard and a nosy 61 yo man all yelling, cell phones out, and telling someone to get off a man on the ground who was surrounded by his group of friends who were intimidating this group. Who is the bigger threat to police? Would they be concerned about quelling the group or pulling the man off?

 

[margarita25]

List of Exhibits (updated notes, not exhaustive)

Exhibit 1: Map
Exhibit 11: Video taken from camera across the street
*Exhibit 15: bystander cellphone footage (whose?)
Exhibit 17: Photo of DC/his knee on George Floyd’s neck (front view)
Exhibit 20: Williams’ 911 call
Exhibit 24- GH’s cell video
Exhibit 25- GH’s 911 call
Exhibits 26, 27, 28- 3 videos taken by minor with her friend’s phone
Exhibit 31- (Combination?): Surveillance video from inside Cup Foods / Surveillance footage taken from business across 38th street (Dragon Wok) showing store clerks approaching vehicle that GF and two others are in.
Exhibit 49- Officer Thao’s body cam footage
Exhibit 62- Photo inside ambulance 1 - setting up Lucas Device
Exhibit 63- Photo inside ambulance 2 - opening airway/ gel
Exhibit 64- Photo inside ambulance 3 - setting up IV line, “
Exhibit 65- Photo inside ambulance 4 - reinforcement of above procedures
Exhibit 67- Photo of paramedics and FD transferring GF from ambulance to hospital
Exhibit 184- Photo showing bystanders/witnesses
*Exhibit 246

*in progress / incomplete

 

[branmuffin]

@cathyrusson
·
2h
#DerekChauvinTrial - Next up is Captain Jeremy Norton, Minneapolis Fire Dept.
1h
#DerekChauvinTrial - Sgt. David Pleoger. He was the first supervisor to arrive on the scene around 8:45pm.

1h
#DerekChauvinTrial - Pleoger talking about MPD policy regarding using a hobble device. A supervisor needs to be called to the scene.
41m
#DerekChauvinTrial - Prosecutor Schleicher has referred to Chauvin as "the defendant" at least half a dozen times now. Pretrial agreement was not to refer to Chauvin as defendant and not to refer to Floyd as victim.

38m
#DerekChauvinTrial - In this footage Chauvin walks up to Pleoger's car. Pleoger asks him to get witness statements. Chauvin says "we can try but they're all pretty hostile."

I missed the part about not referring to the defendant as the defendant and Floyd as the victim. What was the rationale for that?

 

[SouthAussie]

Will make sure I am here for start of that! I missed first hour or so today xx

I would like to thank you for your rolling posts about what was happening during the trial. I appreciate them very much.

It is very late at night here in Australia while all of this action is happening, so it is great to wake up, sip morning coffee, and read your step by step posts.