George Floyd death / Derek Chauvin trial - Sidebar week 2

[SouthAussie]

he had more than enough to kill him

Too much of a coincidence that George 'died from an OD' during the exact moments that officers were kneeling on his neck, as well as compressing his lungs against the hard road surface. Limiting/stopping his body from being able to intake adequate oxygen.

 

[Gibbo214]

I've never heard of anyone not building up a tolerance to opioids. That's why they need more and more over a period of time for it to be effective. (Or to get a high for recreational use.) I didn't hear that question, though.

I think the starting dose for a fentanyl patch is 12mcg and the highest dose is 100 mcg. I have no idea how that compares to how much was found in Floyd's system.

The problem with buying pills illegally is that there is no way to know how much fentanyl is added to it, or even that it has any fentanyl at all. That's why so many people die from overdoses. Imo

And that is why so many OD after rehab. They take the same amount that they were used to but their tolerance is not so high after a break.

 

[shotgun09]

IMO, one thing that all addicts are addicted to, and that is MORE ! Eventually a returning addict will require more than they used previously. Or, end up ODing. And, just to add that a recent offender as Mr Floyd was, being stopped and questioned by LE might have had him ingest all the rest of any illegal substances in his car or on his person at the time...so as not to get busted with illegal drugs. All of that can contribute to a lethal dose of Fentanyl, found per the autopsy IMO.

 

[mickey2942]

Parents incensed after students forced to be mock jurors for Derek Chauvin trial

I can appreciate that this is an important trial, but as a parent, I am not comfortable with a teacher showing this trial in a classroom, and making this particular trial a focus of a lesson, making students be "mock jurors".

This trial has way too many issues, this went off of the "Core Cirriculum". Way off.

 

[SouthAussie]

IMO, one thing that all addicts are addicted to, and that is MORE ! Eventually a returning addict will require more than they used previously. Or, end up ODing. And, just to add that a recent offender as Mr Floyd was, being stopped and questioned by LE might have had him ingest all the rest of any illegal substances in his car or on his person at the time...so as not to get busted with illegal drugs. All of that can contribute to a lethal dose of Fentanyl, found per the autopsy IMO.

If the officers had only rolled George into the recovery position there would be no question about an OD death (or not).

That is the one big mistake they made, a procedure that they were supposed to follow, and for that they will pay the price for George's death ... either from negligence or reckless endangerment.

 

[Gibbo214]

IMO, one thing that all addicts are addicted to, and that is MORE ! Eventually a returning addict will require more than they used previously. Or, end up ODing. And, just to add that a recent offender as Mr Floyd was, being stopped and questioned by LE might have had him ingest all the rest of any illegal substances in his car or on his person at the time...so as not to get busted with illegal drugs. All of that can contribute to a lethal dose of Fentanyl, found per the autopsy IMO.

If that did happen, it would have been found at autopsy. It would not have just been in his blood, but in his digestive juices or if injected fresh track marks.

 

[thx4_medic_Babby]

IMO, one thing that all addicts are addicted to, and that is MORE ! Eventually a returning addict will require more than they used previously. Or, end up ODing. And, just to add that a recent offender as Mr Floyd was, being stopped and questioned by LE might have had him ingest all the rest of any illegal substances in his car or on his person at the time...so as not to get busted with illegal drugs. All of that can contribute to a lethal dose of Fentanyl, found per the autopsy IMO.

No one likes talking about the autopsy though. I couldn’t imagine why.

 

[Marysmith]

Parents incensed after students forced to be mock jurors for Derek Chauvin trial

I can appreciate that this is an important trial, but as a parent, I am not comfortable with a teacher showing this trial in a classroom, and making this particular trial a focus of a lesson, making students be "mock jurors".

This trial has way too many issues, this went off of the "Core Cirriculum". Way off.

I would actually be ok with it as a parent at this time but I totally get that others wouldn’t be and if my child was different than they are I might not be as well. I’m a bit shocked actually that a teacher would just go ahead with this...

 

[SouthAussie]

I would actually be ok with it as a parent at this time but I totally get that others wouldn’t be and if my child was different than they are I might not be as well. I’m a a bit shocked actually that a teacher would just go ahead with this...

I am a bit like you ... my own child would have been able to handle this, and may have 'enjoyed' the debate/experience as she has always been a big social justice person.

But there are others who would be affected by this in a bad way.

It is unfortunate that the trial couldn't have been done as a class assignment at a couple of different levels. The watching of the videos and acting as a juror at one level. And perhaps an assignment about social justice and the effect of having/not having social justice at another level.

The overall civics lesson is a good idea, as I don't think civics is taught enough.

Not enough forethought by the teacher, perhaps.

 

[Wild Rose]

If GF used pills off the street like his GF testified, a pill or pills could be cut with, so the chem screen may look like GF used different drugs but in reality we do not know if one pill may have been cut with anything.

 

[Cubby]

OT. Derek Chauvin and Casey Anthony have the same birthday.

 

[Wild Rose]

Just wanted to put this out there as a student of physics and force. Every force has an equal and opposite force. Say you push against a wall, there is an equal opposite force, which is essentially the wall pushing back. With this pressure to GF's body, every single force that pushed on him had an equal and opposite force, which would be double the force. As a leg pushed down on him, I believe the opposite force would be the ground pushing up on him. Also GF's body in a physics sense pushed back even when he was not resisting. Even as he was unconscious. This is Newton's Third Law to help us understand the true level of force on George Floyd.

 

[mickey2942]

OT. Derek Chauvin and Casey Anthony have the same birthday.

Maybe DC will get lucky, like CA did. I was convinced that the case against CA was rock solid. But, of course, there was no actual video of CA....and I think jurors now expect a video of every crime.

 

[Trident]

Parents incensed after students forced to be mock jurors for Derek Chauvin trial

I can appreciate that this is an important trial, but as a parent, I am not comfortable with a teacher showing this trial in a classroom, and making this particular trial a focus of a lesson, making students be "mock jurors".

This trial has way too many issues, this went off of the "Core Cirriculum". Way off.

Yes, there are a lot of issues, but it's possible this exercise could help the students to look at all sides/angles of a problem. It might teach them to weigh facts and think for themselves

 

[Chelly]

I am willing to let the defense convince me that ingesting drugs caused GF's death. That's a tall mountain for Nelson to climb. Let's see if he's up to it.

Until then, prosecution testimony to convict is overwhelming. I doubt anything will top today's testimony of Medaria Arradondo, the Minneapolis Chief of Police (except The video)

 

[SouthAussie]

Just wanted to put this out there as a student of physics and force. Every force has an equal and opposite force. Say you push against a wall, there is an equal opposite force, which is essentially the wall pushing back. With this pressure to GF's body, every single force that pushed on him had an equal and opposite force, which would be double the force. As a leg pushed down on him, I believe the opposite force would be the ground pushing up on him. Also GF's body in a physics sense pushed back even when he was not resisting. Even as he was unconscious. This is Newton's Third Law to help us understand the true level of force on George Floyd.

(A little OT perhaps, or perhaps not)

Absolutely. I was in a wicked car accident when I was young. We were travelling at 50 mph down a country road (at the speed limit). We were hit head on by a car coming around a bend on our side of the road. We were told afterwards that the force upon us at that time was equivalent to 100 mph ... 50 mph from our vehicle, 50 mph from hitting the oncoming vehicle (like hitting a brick wall, stopping us immediately).

As you say, equal and opposite force.

Which is why I am cognizant of George being pressed into the hard road, both on his lungs and on his neck. Basically having the air squished out of him, and air not being able to enter again properly.

 

[shotgun09]

Per the autopsy report linked above :

A.Blood drug and novel psychoactive substances screens: 1.Fentanyl 11 ng/mL 2.
Norfentanyl 5.6 ng/mL
3.4-ANPP 0.65 ng/mL
4.Methamphetamine 19 ng/mL
5.11-Hydroxy Delta-9 THC 1.2 ng/mL; Delta-9 Carboxy THC 42 ng/mL; Delta-9 THC 2.9 ng/mL
6.Cotinine positive
7.Caffeine positive

IANAD, and IANAL...however IMO, the combination of the two drugs BBM can create havoc on the human body. Per this article/ presentation on Meth ( Called 'Ice' in AU ):

https://cracksintheice.org.au/pdf/cracks-in-the-ice-presentation-notes.pdf

"Using ice with depressants such as alcohol, cannabis, heroin or benzodiazepines (‘depressants’) places extra strain on the heart which may lead to serious complications, especially among people with pre-existing heart problems. "

 

[kim.kitchenstupman]

I am willing to let the defense convince me that ingesting drugs caused GF's death. That's a tall mountain for Nelson to climb. Let's see if he's up to it.

I see the totally opposite. At first, i thought he was guilty. I started researching and looking at facts and now I believe he is innocent. Nelson is doing a great job.
Until then, prosecution testimony to convict is overwhelming. I doubt anything will top today's testimony of Medaria Arradondo, the Minneapolis Chief of Police (except The video)

 

[margarita25]

Qmfr, clarification ftr

Hi, it seems in the last discussion I was too busy giving wrestling confessions AGAIN, and missing stuff, MY BAD. It seems EX 17 was already being discussed, but then Linda and I got to talking and I brought up EX 17, anyway, was kidding around about “the big bucks”, a little whacky today I am - they were already talking about it seems haha.

Anyway, the Emeril video was still good.

So back to this tox report, what is the fatal overdose level for meth? GF was a big guy with perhaps had some tolerance, idk. Blackwell did refer to his level of tolerance re: the fentanyl. Then again, one may try to argue the “long term effects of....”...

Interesting study for the future: the increased risk of fatal overdose post Covid, Post covid multi organ effect vulnerability..l

What about reports on the mixture on fentanyl and meth? I don’t imagine they’re good. But would GF be alive without DC’s knee on his neck? I believe so. You don’t just happen to die this way, jmo, regardless of other contributing factors. I think a sober, perfectly healthy person could die this way too JMO.

I believe DC’s neck was a substantial causal factor in killing George Floyd. Jmo

(meant knee on the neck, not his neck obv)

 

[margarita25]

Per the autopsy report linked above :

A.Blood drug and novel psychoactive substances screens: 1.Fentanyl 11 ng/mL 2.
Norfentanyl 5.6 ng/mL
3.4-ANPP 0.65 ng/mL
4.Methamphetamine 19 ng/mL
5.11-Hydroxy Delta-9 THC 1.2 ng/mL; Delta-9 Carboxy THC 42 ng/mL; Delta-9 THC 2.9 ng/mL
6.Cotinine positive
7.Caffeine positive

IANAD, and IANAL...however IMO, the combination of the two drugs BBM can create havoc on the human body. Per this article/ presentation on Meth ( Called 'Ice' in AU ):

https://cracksintheice.org.au/pdf/cracks-in-the-ice-presentation-notes.pdf

"Using ice with depressants such as alcohol, cannabis, heroin or benzodiazepines (‘depressants’) places extra strain on the heart which may lead to serious complications, especially among people with pre-existing heart problems. "

Yeah this is deep. I hear ya. But again, GF just happened to die at that moment DC’s knee was on his neck? I hear you about potential contributing factors...maybe he died sooner as a result, idk, he died under DC’s knee. He was alive before that, then gee everyone happened to be witnessing this was compromising GF’s condition yelling get off his neck he’s dying, I’m tired. I rest my case with walk like a duck, talk like a duck, he died in front of our eyes, Tired, goodnight.

eta I know nothing about meth, and doses, but noting from above ftr “Methamphetamine 19 ng/mL“, whatever that means in the big picture, I have no idea if that’s a lot or a little.

eta2: as far as the caffeine and weed, I doubt that had anything to do with anything, jmo moo IANAD.

eta3: so would GF be alive despite all this, I think he would, jmo. No knee on the neck, no death JMO.