Found Deceased WI - Kodie Dutcher, 10, may be suicidal, Baraboo, 6 July 2020

[mpnola]

I'm just going to sit quietly, so I can be respectful. So many things have just never quite added up, in my brain. And they aren't getting better, for me.

In my opinion, more is known than is being said. If isolation was hard enough to take her life, that seems like it would have been noticed. If I had to guess, the call at 4pm had info she didn't like. If I had to guess, part 2, it had something to do with possibly feeling like a third wheel. Obviously, I know nothing and its just guesses. It just doesn't make sense. I would have felt better if it was said she had been struggling and was receiving help or something like that. Zero warning or signs that ANYTHING was wrong? That doesn't seem to fit, for me. I wonder if the move was for a job or a person or just a random place.....

 

[Lusitana]

I'm just going to sit quietly, so I can be respectful. So many things have just never quite added up, in my brain. And they aren't getting better, for me.

In my opinion, more is known than is being said. If isolation was hard enough to take her life, that seems like it would have been noticed. If I had to guess, the call at 4pm had info she didn't like. If I had to guess, part 2, it had something to do with possibly feeling like a third wheel. Obviously, I know nothing and its just guesses. It just doesn't make sense. I would have felt better if it was said she had been struggling and was receiving help or something like that. Zero warning or signs that ANYTHING was wrong? That doesn't seem to fit, for me. I wonder if the move was for a job or a person or just a random place.....

I can understand someone not really noticing any warning signs, but usually, after someone commits suicide and we sit back and think things through, there's always something that we now are able to see as a warning signs. No warning sign at all seems quite odd to me.

 

[airportwoman]

I'll put it this way: Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

 

[shinimeggie]

If I were a mother who had a child of any age who committed suicide (ETA: Or ended up dying because of a cry-for-help, as may have been the case here);

I may not want to admit I missed any signs, therefore I may say (if asked) that there were no signs; even as I, on my own, try to search for signs I may have missed. It would drive me crazy; probably literally.

I'm not a mum (just a very doting aunt), but I have tried to kill myself into the double digits due to BPD, and saw how much it hurt my own mother (the handful of times she knows about), even though I was an adult when it happened and lived in a different city.

I can't blame mum for being in denial if there were any signs.

I also can't say with totality that there were signs, even from a mentally ill child.

It took an awful long time for anyone in my life to realise I was suffering from a severe mental illness, not because I hid it, but because they didn't want to believe anything weird happening was because of mental health.

Before people realised how ill I was, if I said a cut from self-harm was from something benign, who in my life would want to believe that the cut came from myself, my choice?

It's possible that before anyone realised how ill Kodie was, she had killed herself after a cry-for-help gone wrong. This cry-for-help may have been the first sign she was ill. And it all went terribly wrong.

But that's just my personal experience -- as an adult with mental health problems, as not being a mother, seeing how my own mother was so badly hurt by those horrible years.

I really can't imagine how much pain this mum is going through, and I really can't blame her for what she's saying and what she believes.

 

[MurderMittens]

So heartbreaking.

 

[Lusitana]

If I were a mother who had a child of any age who committed suicide (ETA: Or ended up dying because of a cry-for-help, as may have been the case here);

I may not want to admit I missed any signs, therefore I may say (if asked) that there were no signs; even as I, on my own, try to search for signs I may have missed. It would drive me crazy; probably literally.

I'm not a mum (just a very doting aunt), but I have tried to kill myself into the double digits due to BPD, and saw how much it hurt my own mother (the handful of times she knows about), even though I was an adult when it happened and lived in a different city.

I can't blame mum for being in denial if there were any signs.

I also can't say with totality that there were signs, even from a mentally ill child.

It took an awful long time for anyone in my life to realise I was suffering from a severe mental illness, not because I hid it, but because they didn't want to believe anything weird happening was because of mental health.

Before people realised how ill I was, if I said a cut from self-harm was from something benign, who in my life would want to believe that the cut came from myself, my choice?

It's possible that before anyone realised how ill Kodie was, she had killed herself after a cry-for-help gone wrong. This cry-for-help may have been the first sign she was ill. And it all went terribly wrong.

But that's just my personal experience -- as an adult with mental health problems, as not being a mother, seeing how my own mother was so badly hurt by those horrible years.

I really can't imagine how much pain this mum is going through, and I really can't blame her for what she's saying and what she believes.

You got me thinking here. I went through some hard times when I was in middle school and in high school. And, to this day, I still don't know why I was so sad. I believe the only adult in my life that noticed a change on me was a teacher, and that was because I dropped my grades.
There are some details on this case that are very odd though, besides the fact that the mother doesn't seem to be able to point out any signs, it goes beyond that, in my opinion.
And, btw, I hope you're doing better right now!

 

[Inquisitive2018]

I hope there is a proper investigation into her suicide, even if we are not privy to it. I know there was a 12 year old who took his life a few months ago and his father felt it was because of the COVID isolation.
12-Year-Old's Death Was Result of Coronavirus Fallout, Father Says
However what happened was he broke his tv monitor in which he played video games and his dad wold not get him a new one at least not right away so he hung himself. Dad thinks if he was in school it would not have happened. Who knows...

I know alot of kids are going through it right now. I could not imagine as a teen in the environment that I was living in, to not have school for months.

 

[airportwoman]

Her mother, who is expecting another baby very soon, was on NBC News last night talking about her daughter. I knew I'd heard about the story somewhere, and sure enough, here it was.

Suicidal thoughts are increasing in young kids, experts say. It began before the pandemic.

 

[evilwise]

Adolescents have strong emotions, always have. Meanwhile we "progress" to more and more idleness, more and more isolation - especially the last year. It's becoming normal. Keep your adolescents busy. If you yourself are in despair, get busy.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Adolescents have strong emotions, always have. Meanwhile we "progress" to more and more idleness, more and more isolation - especially the last year. It's becoming normal. Keep your adolescents busy. If you yourself are in despair, get busy.

If I remember correctly, I read an article pre-COVID that indicated that the risk for suicide is being seen in younger and younger children. My brother lost someone in his class to suicide. The boy was only 9 or 10 at the time. It was heartbreaking.

Rest easy, precious one!

 

[Seattle1]

Her mother, who is expecting another baby very soon, was on NBC News last night talking about her daughter. I knew I'd heard about the story somewhere, and sure enough, here it was.

Suicidal thoughts are increasing in young kids, experts say. It began before the pandemic.

This was such a heartbreaking case. I don't think we ever learned what Kodie ingested that caused her death but should serve as a warning that NOTHING should be left within reach of a child.
_____________

A registered nurse, Bielicki had been trained to spot signs of suicidal thoughts, but the guidance wasn’t specific to young children. She said everything had seemed so normal; she and Kodie were about to leave for vacation, and her daughter had just lost a tooth.

She believes her daughter had acted on an impulse and may not have known the consequences of her actions or that help was available.

“My 10-year-old probably didn’t know there was a suicide hotline number,” she said.

 

[Pennyblake]

I am new to this website and this story. I saw a story on this child on the news. My original interest was sparked because I assumed that this was a gun related suicide based on the subjects of the other news stories and on what the parent had said. No other symptoms, kids are impulsive. A gun fits that story. I am at the enough is enough point with the gun thing, but it is complicated so I wanted to understand how this child got a hold of a gun. I then quickly realized that this was not gun related. And I was perplexed. I am definitely not suggesting that it is not possible that this child purposely took pills to end her life. My intent is not to take away from any person, child or adult, experiences with suicide or thoughts of suicide. Kid or not, everyone has thought at one point about swerving their car in oncoming traffic. Kids have been historically overlooked in this arena and more attention needs to be put on the minds of our kids. All of those things can be true, even if there are questions about what happened to Kodie Dutcher. And I have questions about the story we have been told about what has happened to Kodie Dutcher. To reiterate-suicide is very real;adults need to do something about preventing it in kids; adults also need to ask questions when something happens bad happens to a child who can no longer represent themselves. I do not believe enough questions have been answered to give this child the representation she deserves.

What I am trying to figure out is what evidence was found that ruled out a homicide? I can’t find that anywhere. I don’t know if that is because ingestion+note always= suicide or there was enough evidence that I can’t find to r/o homicide.

Does anyone have enough knowledge about this case to walk through the investigation or point me in a direction of where I can find this?

 

[Seattle1]

I am new to this website and this story. I saw a story on this child on the news. My original interest was sparked because I assumed that this was a gun related suicide based on the subjects of the other news stories and on what the parent had said. No other symptoms, kids are impulsive. A gun fits that story. I am at the enough is enough point with the gun thing, but it is complicated so I wanted to understand how this child got a hold of a gun. I then quickly realized that this was not gun related. And I was perplexed. I am definitely not suggesting that it is not possible that this child purposely took pills to end her life. My intent is not to take away from any person, child or adult, experiences with suicide or thoughts of suicide. Kid or not, everyone has thought at one point about swerving their car in oncoming traffic. Kids have been historically overlooked in this arena and more attention needs to be put on the minds of our kids. All of those things can be true, even if there are questions about what happened to Kodie Dutcher. And I have questions about the story we have been told about what has happened to Kodie Dutcher. To reiterate-suicide is very real;adults need to do something about preventing it in kids; adults also need to ask questions when something happens bad happens to a child who can no longer represent themselves. I do not believe enough questions have been answered to give this child the representation she deserves.

What I am trying to figure out is what evidence was found that ruled out a homicide? I can’t find that anywhere. I don’t know if that is because ingestion+note always= suicide or there was enough evidence that I can’t find to r/o homicide.

Does anyone have enough knowledge about this case to walk through the investigation or point me in a direction of where I can find this?

Welcome to WS @Pennyblake. This entire case discussion was limited to only 12 pages. I suggest beginning at the first page and follow the applicable links for cause/manner of death.

This is not good at all.

Amber Alert: Baraboo police seek missing 10-year-old girl considered ‘endangered’

Authorities said she left a note behind reading, “Mom, I love you, but I can’t do it. Bye.” She’s suspected to have taken an unknown amount of pills, as well. She left behind her cellphone and shoes.

Preliminary autopsy results: Baraboo girl died by suicide

The autopsy, conducted Wednesday, found in preliminary results that Dutcher’s death was caused by “pharmacologic suicide,” according to a press release from the Baraboo Police Department at about 1 p.m. Thursday. Full results typically take 45 days, but may take longer due to COVID-19, the release said.

There were no signs of foul play or physical abuse, according to the release. Toxicology reports are pending; they typically take two weeks.

 

[evilwise]

I am new to this website and this story. I saw a story on this child on the news. My original interest was sparked because I assumed that this was a gun related suicide based on the subjects of the other news stories and on what the parent had said. No other symptoms, kids are impulsive. A gun fits that story. I am at the enough is enough point with the gun thing, but it is complicated so I wanted to understand how this child got a hold of a gun. I then quickly realized that this was not gun related. And I was perplexed. I am definitely not suggesting that it is not possible that this child purposely took pills to end her life. My intent is not to take away from any person, child or adult, experiences with suicide or thoughts of suicide. Kid or not, everyone has thought at one point about swerving their car in oncoming traffic. Kids have been historically overlooked in this arena and more attention needs to be put on the minds of our kids. All of those things can be true, even if there are questions about what happened to Kodie Dutcher. And I have questions about the story we have been told about what has happened to Kodie Dutcher. To reiterate-suicide is very real;adults need to do something about preventing it in kids; adults also need to ask questions when something happens bad happens to a child who can no longer represent themselves. I do not believe enough questions have been answered to give this child the representation she deserves.

What I am trying to figure out is what evidence was found that ruled out a homicide? I can’t find that anywhere. I don’t know if that is because ingestion+note always= suicide or there was enough evidence that I can’t find to r/o homicide.

Does anyone have enough knowledge about this case to walk through the investigation or point me in a direction of where I can find this?

I would presume that a medical examiner can rule out force feeding

 

[Lusitana]

This poor child.

 

[Pennyblake]

I don’t have background on that. But I do know you don’t have to force feed someone to give them a terminal dose of oral medication.
I also can’t find any mention of “pharmacologic suicide” in anything that is not related to this case. Not sure how much artistic liberty medical examiners have with cause of death but it seems like “pharmacologic suicide” is unique to this case. Just another odd thing I noticed.

I have read through all of these post and I am getting information that is similar to what is found online. In my opinion, a note, and a statement my police that there was no foul play is not enough to conclusively say a 10 year old with no SI in the past committed suicide.
What am I missing?

 

[Seattle1]

I don’t have background on that. But I do know you don’t have to force feed someone to give them a terminal dose of oral medication.
I also can’t find any mention of “pharmacologic suicide” in anything that is not related to this case. Not sure how much artistic liberty medical examiners have with cause of death but it seems like “pharmacologic suicide” is unique to this case. Just another odd thing I noticed.

I have read through all of these post and I am getting information that is similar to what is found online. In my opinion, a note, and a statement my police that there was no foul play is not enough to conclusively say a 10 year old with no SI in the past committed suicide.
What am I missing?

Respectfully, WS is a facts-based forum and the only information you will find in the open thread for this case comes from MSM linked sources. No rumors, social media, or speculation. While members may not agree that with the conclusion by law enforcement or the medical examiner, those discussions are not allowed on the open thread without any basis for that opinion.

 

[Pennyblake]

Respectfully, WS is a facts-based forum and the only information you will find in the open thread for this case comes from MSM linked sources. No rumors, social media, or speculation. While members may not agree that with the conclusion by law enforcement or the medical examiner, those discussions are not allowed on the open thread without any basis for that opinion.

Respectfully noted.
I’ll ask more pointed questions.
Does anyone have any knowledge about why an autopsy that usually takes 45 days would not be released after 9 months?

 

[evilwise]

Respectfully noted.
I’ll ask more pointed questions.
Does anyone have any knowledge about why an autopsy that usually takes 45 days would not be released after 9 months?

Basic demographic information and the manner of death are public record in Wisconsin. The rest of the information is confidential and treated as such. It is my assumption that a significant quantity of pills was found in her stomach.

 

[KatieLH]

This is one of the saddest cases I've seen on here in a long time. When I was around 10 or 11, my best friend at the time attempted to take her own life by ODing on pills, was thankfully saved, and was then committed to a child's psychiatric ward for a while. I remember that at the time it didn't seem like we were "too young" to feel like that, or to struggle so badly with our mental health – I've been dealing with a lifelong mental illness since I was very young, and my friend obviously had her own mental health problems to contend with, as did a lot of my other friends/classmates. Even at that young age, our inner dialogues and the problems we shared were not trivial, but complex and painful. It just seemed normal and the way we coped with it was not dissimilar to how older teens/even some adults cope. I can't really articulate it but mental illness or poor mental health seems to make you grow up quickly but also infantilizes you at the same time, it's very strange. A lot of the dark, complex things we felt were not normal markers of childhood, but we viewed them in that way. As a 31-year-old reading about this case now, though, it just seems so impossibly, impossibly young. Way too young to have to feel like that. Rest in peace, Kodie.