PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, former district attorney, Bellefonte, 15 Apr 2005 - #17

[J. J. in Phila]

Darlin' J, has it occurred to you that she took a demotion to be close to Ray, as in working in the same ( or adjacent) building?

She was already working there, I think. The W/VA position is in the DA's Office.

 

[SeekingJana]

bizzarro...for a ladies man these gals seem a bit shall I say...masculine? ...was PEF trying to emulate Barbara?

god this is going down the weirdo path....lolz...I mean that picture says a lot to me...like not nice things...and I am going straight to you know where in a hand basket...

you know short hair can be cute...but in this case...uh not so much...mOO

I've wanted to know more about the psychodynamics of the 2 women and Ray's attraction to each since the photo emerged. When I realized who was whom, I was flabbergasted.
J posted it first, and I was all over it.

There IS a possibility there is a familial relationship but if there is, neither woman has discussed it publicly to the best of my knowledge.
Also, Patty is barely 40 in the photo, whereas Barbara is about a decade older.

 

[SeekingJana]

I doubt it that it is emulation. That is still what she looks like.

Without getting into too much detail, I know that PEF and RFG had something beyond a platonic relationship.
(I will point out that it is possible for a man and a woman to live together without anything beyond a platonic relationship.)

OMG, ROFLOL again. I had no clue that would be possible almost 20 years later. Lord have mercy, truly.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I've wanted to know more about the psychodynamics of the 2 women and Ray's attraction to each since the photo emerged. When I realized who was whom, I was flabbergasted.
J posted it first, and I was all over it.

There IS a possibility there is a familial relationship but if there is, neither woman has discussed it publicly to the best of my knowledge.
Also, Patty is barely 40 in the photo, whereas Barbara is about a decade older.

Try nearly two decades older. I don't know of any familial relationship and it is unlikely because the Fornicola's were from Bellefonte.

 

[SeekingJana]

Try nearly two decades older. I don't know of any familial relationship and it is unlikely because the Fornicola's were from Bellefonte.

I'm finally speechless. No wonder Ray left. He ran right to a pretty younger lady with gorgeous long hair and an hourglass figure.

 

[mspepper]

I did note something in the calendars.

RFG was on the prison board, ex officio. The prison board meets monthly, I think the second Thursday. It is on his April calendar, but not on his May calendar or any other date after April.

That Monday, RFG was to testify about if a ADA could examine a witness. If the judge said he couldn't, then RFG would question the witness. I think that came up a short time before he disappeared. Other than that, there was nothing else that involved him that week personally.

There was something listed as "Spring Carlisle 20-24" on the box for April 20th. Carlisle is a town SE of Bellefonte about an 82-85 mile drive.

I believe the reference to Spring Carlisle refers to a huge car show/auction and flea market which had been going on for decades. Held several times a year, this year the Spring show is April 21-25

 

[SeekingJana]

I believe the reference to Spring Carlisle refers to a huge car show/auction and flea market which had been going on for decades. Held several times a year, this year the Spring show is April 21-25

That's so cool to know, thank you!!

We know that Ray loved sports cars and antique toys, possibly antique miniature cars like the first Matchbox molds. There's a huge part of me that hopes he has been alive and able to go back, if even in disguise.

My husband and I are collectors ( of things other than cars) and our hobbies are still so much fun. We are in the age group of Ray when he disappeared. Hubby has been collecting model trains since he was around 3 years old. His grandfather started the collection.

 

[Hastings21]

Such a bizarre case. Years ago I suspected he might have went into the Witness Protection Program, but not so sure now. The Sandusky case....... it just doesn't seem to fit for me. I believe he may no longer be alive. Suicide doesn't work for me either. I had a very close family member commit suicide. It devastates the family. I know Ray's brother committed suicide, and Ray felt and saw how extremely devastating that can be. I don't believe he would do this to his daughter. Foul play....... becoming a great possibility. Was there any current cases he was involved in that were of great threat to him?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The Witness Security Program has been ruled out. RFG did not witness anything.

Further, if he was in WSP, why would they risk all this attention? Every time I post here, there is a photo of RFG. That would not be up here if there was public disclosure that RFG was in Witness Security.

 

[Hastings21]

I said "years ago, I suspected he was in the WPP." I am definitely leaning in other directions now.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I said "years ago, I suspected he was in the WPP." I am definitely leaning in other directions now.

It is one of the things that can be said to be very unlikely.

 

[DeDee]

The area is along a busy street and at least the windows from two houses face the parking lot. If there was a noisy struggle, it very likely would have been heard, if not seen.

The store owner didn't see RFG in the Mini, but there were at least 5 witnesses that did on 4/15. The next episode should give us some more information. Remember also that the bloodhound detected RFG's scent in the parking lot.

I trust trained dogs. Their noses are filled with sensors that can separate odors, ie., they can distinguish between the odor of cadaverine and bleach.
It appears RG may have gotten into a vehicle with someone due to the lack of his trace by the dog from the parking lot. It could have been involuntarily.

This is the one that is quite possible. RFG could have met someone, gone with them willingly, and then enter a trap. This is the one keeping me up at night.

Who would want to trap Ray and why? Ray fell into a trap in Lewisburg that cost him his life on the same day he was seen fiddling with his laptop near the museum and it ends up nearby in the Susquehanna River.

it does seem to come together...because the suicide has never come together for me..I mean
there are many inexplicable suicides...but it just doesn't come together...especially with him never being found..and as I've said many times..it just doesn't seem like they looked that hard for Ray..something isn't right about the whole shebang. mOO

No, RG did not suicide himself. No, not ever found. Ray may have been nervous and concerned about something serious but I don't think he knew he was going to die bc he was planning to visit his daughter rather shortly.

Did Ray express publicly why he felt Roy, his brother's death was NOT suicide?

Isn't he the gentleman who told his wife he was going to purchase a swimming suit, or was it mulch, and would be back soon but never returned? His body was washed up by the Miami River. Where was Roy's car found?
Missing DA: Is it foul play or did he commit suicide?

PF may have been a pity and a pearl yet simply boring. She stated Ray enjoyed the quiet life. Given Ray's precarious, if not perilous profession, his job was busy and stressful so perhaps he preferred a quiet, sedate home life.

PF got her job via nepotism, her home paid for and a $10k cute as the dickens red mini Coop which isn't so much less than she'd have received if they'd been married.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Snipped for emphasis

Who would want to trap Ray and why? Ray fell into a trap in Lewisburg that cost him his life on the same day he was seen fiddling with his laptop near the museum and it ends up nearby in the Susquehanna River.

That is one of the questions, if this was homicide.

The main question, if this was a voluntary departure, is, "How did Ray Gricar get out of Lewisburg.

Did Ray express publicly why he felt Roy, his brother's death was NOT suicide?

Isn't he the gentleman who told his wife he was going to purchase a swimming suit, or was it mulch, and would be back soon but never returned? His body was washed up by the Miami River. Where was Roy's car found?
Missing DA: Is it foul play or did he commit suicide?

Publicly, no. He did express that to fellow DA Ted McKnight.

 

[DeDee]

Hopefully the new Rebecca Knight podcast series will answer many heretofore unanswered questions.

J.J. with your pulse on this case for a long time, how many people would you suppose will join Knight Endeavors, as you did, in order to check out her documents from the RG files?

Why was she the one given the file along with enough time to copy all 1000 pages of Ray Gricar's Investigative file?

Final Argument: The Disappearance of Ray Gricar, District Attorney

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Hopefully the new Rebecca Knight podcast series will answer many heretofore unanswered questions.

J.J. with your pulse on this case for a long time, how many people would you suppose will join Knight Endeavors, as you did, in order to check out her documents from the RG files?

Why was she the one given the file along with enough time to copy all 1000 pages of Ray Gricar's Investigative file?

Final Argument: The Disappearance of Ray Gricar, District Attorney

That I don't know. If more people find out about it, more will join.

I do not know the answer to the second question. I do wish her contact had given them to me.

 

[SeekingJana]

That I don't know. If more people find out about it, more will join.

I do not know the answer to the second question. I do wish her contact had given them to me.

J., does the above post refer to what Internet posters can and cannot do 16 years into a missing person case with NO signs of foul play, as stated by LE from the beginning until now? Interest in this case is very very low this far out with no sign of foul play, you know, probably even in PA.

I think your reasons for interest are somewhat different from mine. Mine is really the fact that three associations to the subject of " being missing" is more than a coincidence. Because of my education and experience, I believe it was Ray's subconscious talking because he was planning to leave, likely for a long time.

The three things I can think of right now which he spontaneously said or was involved with are: Ray talking about Mel Wiley's disappearance when no one else seemed a bit interested in the case, some parts of the book 20/20 Vision, of which I believe he read at least a synopsis or the manuscript, and a statement or statements he made to officers of the court about not " being here" a month or two before he was missing.

 

[minazoe]

but he was going on some trips, maybe he was referring to planned vacations...and retirement so he essentially wouldn't be there...right? mOO

 

[J. J. in Phila]

J., does the above post refer to what Internet posters can and cannot do 16 years into a missing person case with NO signs of foul play, as stated by LE from the beginning until now? Interest in this case is very very low this far out with no sign of foul play, you know, probably even in PA.

No, it does mean that there is still interest in the case; at least I think so.

I wish that, when I was doing the blog, somebody would have said, "Here is the case file."

 

[J. J. in Phila]

but he was going on some trips, maybe he was referring to planned vacations...and retirement so he essentially wouldn't be there...right? mOO

No. You really have to look at the calendars.

RFG planned a yearly trip to Vermont, but that was something that was general. Most of the things on the calendars was scheduling for the office. It was when an ADA had a trial, when the pool of jurors would be selected (by jury commissioners not part of the office).

After the 1st week of June, he had blocked out the state association of prosecutors meeting and his vacation. For the rest of the year, that was it (though July, August and September were not in the file). Even looking at April, with one exception, there was nothing that he had to be involved with personally. The one thing was to testify were an ADA might have to recuse himself (4/18). My understanding is that this came up relatively recently.

It does look like RFG was keeping his schedule open for the week of 4/19/05 and June 2005. That could tie in with any scenario.

 

[SeekingJana]

No. You really have to look at the calendars.

RFG planned a yearly trip to Vermont, but that was something that was general. Most of the things on the calendars was scheduling for the office. It was when an ADA had a trial, when the pool of jurors would be selected (by jury commissioners not part of the office).

After the 1st week of June, he had blocked out the state association of prosecutors meeting and his vacation. For the rest of the year, that was it (though July, August and September were not in the file). Even looking at April, with one exception, there was nothing that he had to be involved with personally. The one thing was to testify were an ADA might have to recuse himself (4/18). My understanding is that this came up relatively recently.

It does look like RFG was keeping his schedule open for the week of 4/19/05 and June 2005. That could tie in with any scenario.

Do you remember the statement to a judge, I believe it was, out of court proceedings, where there was a convo between 3-4 people ( the judge, Ray, perhaps the ADA who told of the incident, and maybe someone's clerk) where there was advanced planning for a court action or maybe round table discussion and Ray looked off into the distance, kind of tuning out. When he was asked if he'd help take part, he said " I won't be here".

It was to happen before his retirement, and no trip was planned because of this judicial event, but he was saying already " I'll not be here".

Remember? It was a huge thing to Bob and Steve. I don't recall who told this but they were surprised by his demeanor and words at the time, and certainly, afterwards in view of him going missing.

It should be emphasized that he was not seeming to be " fateful" or depressed, upset or sad, just musing that he wouldn't be in Bellefonte a month or so in the future. I wish I remembered more specifics but it was one of the few times he spoke of " not being around" to fellow professionals of the court.

I have always thought it was an unguarded moment when his plan to leave surreptitiously was actually voiced. Since we do not know if he left on a purely personal basis, to go where he had chosen to go, or whether he had taken a new position in some form of national or international legal justice, we do not know how much prep time he took before leaving, but it seems it would take some time from deciding to leave and planning same, and disappearing.

I still believe he could have been leaving to go to a pre-arranged living situation. I believe it could be a career in covert ops in a government ( not necessarily US but not hostile forces), to a cache of his offshore money he couldn't get any other way legally post 9/11, or to a lady love who was already living in a different country, and Ray had little to do except physically get there unseen.