Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #132

[sandy_80]

for two years now.. ppl have been telling us ( ignore the first sketch ) le said so and so
and u get this
now

“We are not eliminating both sketches. We want people to continue to look at both sketches.

 

[TL4S]

i would say he might have of rented a vehicle just for a killing.

SBM

Or stole a vehicle.

 

[TL4S]

"At round 12:45 in the afternoon, one of the firefighter picks up a set of footprints and follows them to a location about half a mile east of the Monon High Bridge. Moments later his voice is heard over police walkie-talkies."

SBM

This seems to contradict a few things we have heard and/or assumed. Wasn't it supposed to have been around 12:15? Picking up footprints and following them sounds, imo, like the the footprints were on the north side. And again, that d*m half mile estimate.

 

[everybodhi]

for two years now.. ppl have been telling us ( ignore the first sketch ) le said so and so
and u get this
now

“We are not eliminating both sketches. We want people to continue to look at both sketches.

Whaaat?
Where did you hear this?

 

[news buff]

SBM

This seems to contradict a few things we have heard and/or assumed. Wasn't it supposed to have been around 12:15? Picking up footprints and following them sounds, imo, like the the footprints were on the north side. And again, that d*m half mile estimate.

Kelsi was on air about 12:15 doing an interview and they had found the bodies before then.

 

[news buff]

Former prosecutor in unsolved Delphi murders of two teens says they had signature elements | Daily Mail Online

This article quoted Ives but also brought up staging. Remembered reading it and thought Ives was talking about staging too.

Retired FBI profiler Mary Ellen O'Toole mentioned staging in the article.

 

[Jethro4WS]

SBM

This seems to contradict a few things we have heard and/or assumed. Wasn't it supposed to have been around 12:15? Picking up footprints and following them sounds, imo, like the the footprints were on the north side. And again, that d*m half mile estimate.

It does kind of suck that for some erroneous information like what time they were found that we are stuck on these threads with what the media reported or what LE said at the time (both incorrect) when we do know the exact time - to the second - that the radio call was made. Unfortunately that can only be learned by reading post #2 in the scanner thread (which cannot be discussed here) and looking for the second to last transcribed transmission.

 

[sandy_80]

Whaaat?
Where did you hear this?

watch
the People Magazine Investigates special....
also from there

Sheriff Tobe Leazenby indicated that LE's suspect fit a particular criminal profile:

"We focused on the registered sex offenders within our area. What they may have been doing or where they were... those kinds of things.

 

[sunshineray]

SBM

This seems to contradict a few things we have heard and/or assumed. Wasn't it supposed to have been around 12:15? Picking up footprints and following them sounds, imo, like the the footprints were on the north side. And again, that d*m half mile estimate.

The picture being shown on screen when the reporter mentions firefighter following a "set" of footprints actually shows 2 sets of footprints. I had to rewind so I was sure he'd said the singular not the plural. If he, the firefighter, was already across the creek on the crime scene side, it's possible he saw the killer's egress?

 

[sunshineray]

for two years now.. ppl have been telling us ( ignore the first sketch ) le said so and so
and u get this
now

“We are not eliminating both sketches. We want people to continue to look at both sketches.

ISP Carter had said soon after the April 2019 PC that the killer could be a combination of the two sketches.

BP went as far as to say on HLN's most recent show on the Delphi Murders that someone sent her an overlay photo of both sketches together. They showed it on that program.

It's all very confusing sometimes...about those sketches.

 

[everybodhi]

watch
the People Magazine Investigates special....

(Snipped and edited to focus on sketches)

Hmmmm. Is it possible ‘People Magazine Investigates’ updated a release of an old show, leaving in erroneous past statements that were later changed/corrected by LE ?

At thd very end of the ID channel's People Magazine: The Delphi Killer (which my cable provider's description says released in 2016, so don't know exactly when this show was actually released) ISP Carter is on camera saying...

 

[Yemelyan]

[

Retired FBI profiler Mary Ellen O'Toole mentioned staging in the article.

The Daily Mail article, as has been discussed here many times, was not a new interview provided by Ives - neither he not Mary Ellen O'Toole talked to a Daily Mail reporter directly. Instead, like the Daily Mail does many times, it took info from another source - which in this case was the Down The Hill podcast episode where both Ives and O'Toole were featured - and repackaged their quotes.

How do I know this? Ives' words are verbatim from the DTH transcript. Intelligent man though he is, I don't see how he is able to use the exact words in the exact sequence in two separate interviews, and Mary Ellen O'Toole miraculously does the same.

In the DTH interviews from which the DM got their information, Ives does not use the word staging. And though he has talked about signatures in many interviews since, to my knowledge he has not used the word staging.

Maryellen O'Toole, in her DTH interview, was asked by the podcast hosts what is the difference between staging and signatures - and she answered. They are different. Staging normally means that the perpetrator is doing things at the crime scene to mislead the investigation. Signatures are something else. They are things the perpetrator does, almost involuntarily, for his psychological need or pleasure. She also was clear that she herself does not work on the Delphi case or know anything about it other than what the public has read.

The Daily Mail, as many people do, conflated what staging and signatures are.

 

[everybodhi]

ISP Carter had said soon after the April 2019 PC that the killer could be a combination of the two sketches.

BP went as far as to say on HLN's most recent show on the Delphi Murders that someone sent her an overlay photo of both sketches together. They showed it on that program.

It's all very confusing sometimes...about those sketches.

But..
on April 24, 2019
Delphi murders: New suspect sketch not same man as in old sketch, ISP clarifies
(edited to add link)

On Wednesday, police emphasized that a new sketch of a suspect’s face is not supposed to be a different take on a composite sketch of a heavier, older-looking man. They are, according to Indiana State Police Sgt. Kim Riley, not the same person.

Riley also said Wednesday that the original sketch – released in the summer of 2017, showing a man with a goatee and a driving cap – is “not presently a person of interest in this investigation.”

“Now, as the investigation has matured and past information has been reassessed,” ISP’s release said, “it is the belief of investigators with the Multi-Agency Task Force that the person depicted in the sketch released on April 22 more accurately represents the person wanted for the murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German.”

 

[MistyWaters]

Therebis a cluster of home on the corner of 252 and 625 where the drive begins. I am pretty sure the people in those homess would not want unknown cars driving to the bridge on their side. I think they woukd notice..

I don’t know the area at all but a WS member who claimed to be local posted here early on that people used to park along the side of that road/drive and go fishing from there. That we don’t have anyone here with in-depth local knowledge any longer is a disadvantage as we’re only left with guesswork.

If the road was locally known to provide public access to the creek that could also be a reason it’s believed the killer had knowledge of the Delphi area. JMO

 

[photographer4]

So ID just televised the People Magazine Investigates on the Delphi Murders. ISP confirmed sketch #1 has not been eliminated and people should be looking at both sketches in combination with the audio and video. Carter also came out and said the missing piece is someone that knows who BG is and tipping him in. There were footprints that lead to the direction of the girls bodies, but it was kinda vague. There were a few other interesting things mentioned about suspects and how they investigated a certain unnamed man in the area with a violent history . I thought it was well done. When Carter talked adamantly about not releasing details of the CS or CoD I got a strong feeling that they're doing this to strip power from BG. I think BG may have wanted some notoriety or things known to the public and LE knows this.

Thanks for sharing all this! I think you may be right! Not releasing COD or the CS absolutely reduces the killer's sense of power! He's a lot less scary when no one knows what really happened. Until people actually know, he's just some creep who killed two little girls. Not some big scary monster who might come for them at any moment.

Sounds like they have a lot of info about BG, the crime and the motive etc, but might just be lacking a name, OR, might need confirmation from someone - eg: "BG is X. I believe this because". Once they have someone name him, or connect a name directly to the murders, they probably have a very strong case, and are more likely to get a conviction. I imagine that what they have now without someone naming him specifically is a pretty good case with a 70/30 chance of them getting a conviction. Bet they wanna wait and get that name because they cannot take this back to court if he gets off.

 

[photographer4]

The picture being shown on screen when the reporter mentions firefighter following a "set" of footprints actually shows 2 sets of footprints. I had to rewind so I was sure he'd said the singular not the plural. If he, the firefighter, was already across the creek on the crime scene side, it's possible he saw the killer's egress?

I haven't seen the show, so this is legit just a question, and NOT speculation on my part:

Did they actually show footprints at / near the actual crimescene? Or did they go back there and re-create / photograph a set of footprints? Does anyone have a screen grab of the photo they showed at that point?

 

[StarryStarryNight]

So ID just televised the People Magazine Investigates on the Delphi Murders. ISP confirmed sketch #1 has not been eliminated and people should be looking at both sketches in combination with the audio and video. Carter also came out and said the missing piece is someone that knows who BG is and tipping him in. There were footprints that lead to the direction of the girls bodies, but it was kinda vague. There were a few other interesting things mentioned about suspects and how they investigated a certain unnamed man in the area with a violent history . I thought it was well done. When Carter talked adamantly about not releasing details of the CS or CoD I got a strong feeling that they're doing this to strip power from BG. I think BG may have wanted some notoriety or things known to the public and LE knows this.

I’m looking forward to watching this. It sounds like it was well done. A couple of comments about some things that were apparently brought up.
Footprints leading someone to where the girls were found was information that was talked about early on in this case. At some point it changed more to the story about Kelsi and the shoe and the deer and focusing through the phone etc. I kinda think these two thing happened pretty much at the same time. The Kelsi story is a very human story that tugs at all of us. The footprint story means more I think to the actual investigation. LE did bring out a pair of boots from the packing plant early on that we all presumed was to compare with the footprints. LE did say they feel they were on to something early on.
After four years, LE still needs some member of the public to solve this case for them. They have admitted it. Yet....they give no information to the public that might jar a memory, or clear up a question someone may have so they feel more confident that “so-and-so” is the killer. I totally understand protecting the investigation, but holding on to every single piece of information seems unnecessary, especially when you need someone to call and tell you who it is. I also get not wanting to play BG’s game and not empowering him. But at some point LE might want to consider they are empowering the killer by allowing him to remain free. If the crime scene is in fact so odd, someone will recognize that oddness. Just think how jarring it would be for the killer to listen to a press conference giving out a few details and knowing someone might recognize him in those details. The passive approach of begging for a name and dangling a huge reward hasn’t worked. Release some info, put some pressure on the killer, give someone the confidence to come forward.
Just my thoughts.

 

[Boxer]

I don’t know the area at all but a WS member who claimed to be local posted here early on that people used to park along the side of that road/drive and go fishing from there. That we don’t have anyone here with in-depth local knowledge any longer is a disadvantage as we’re only left with guesswork.

If the road was locally known to provide public access to the creek that could also be a reason it’s believed the killer had knowledge of the Delphi area. JMO

Agree.
MOO people hanging out in cars was already a problem on the other side.
There are also informal paths from the I25/200 area to the MHB along Bridge Creek. Formalizing the path to a public path is in the area land trust plans.

 

[TL4S]

My picture of the search and discovery has always been colored by KG's description, but it's been unclear whether she actually saw where the searchers were.

I just can't deduce where anyone or anything really was located in regards to which side of the creek, etc. Maybe everything was on the north side, including the shoe.

I'm beginning to wonder if maybe the shoe and shirt were spotted from across the creek, reported to the searcher on the north, who then located footprints which led to the bodies. IDK...

 

[sandy_80]

Hmmmm. Is it possible ‘People Magazine Investigates’ updated a release of an old show, leaving in erroneous past statements that were later changed/corrected by LE ?

this was an interview not old footage.. so no