Israel Keyes: General Discussion

[catsandmorecats]

I've been looking into this and I think, based on the description and potential connections to NAMUS 44, there's a possibility this could be referring to Anita Scott.

Anita Scott – The Charley Project

-She definitely appears to have "pale skin"

-She had not a wealthy grandmother, but a wealthy uncle, who left her millions of dollars when he died

-She drove a '86 Volkswagen, which is notably kind of odd for someone of her age and means (and we also know that Keyes specifically differentiated between newer and older style VW's from his description of the "newer" VW bug that his near-victim in Vermont drove)


And she could be linked to the NAMUS 44 as follows:

-Richard Petrone and Danielle Imbo disappeared on 2/19 or early 2/20 of 2005, from Philadelphia

-Anita disappeared on 2/20/2003, from just outside Philadelphia, and her car was subsequently found in Philadelphia

-(slightly more tenuous) Tony Luzio from NAMUS 44 disappeared from Delaware County, Ohio; Anita disappeared from Delaware County, Pennsylvania


I am up to date on TCBS now, but I didn't write down the timeline of when Keyes is/isn't accounted for outside of the FBI timeline, so I'm not sure if her disappearance clashes with those dates, but as far as I know it does not. I do know, though, that Josh strongly believes there is at least one unknown victim from PA, although his rationale for that was somewhat more vague than most of his strong beliefs related to Keyes.

Thoughts?

hi there - I’m a friend of the Luzio family and knew Tony. I’m very familiar with details Tony’s case and was there when he was found. I can assure anyone wondering, Tony died in a car accident in a small pond just a few feet from the road; this road was on his normal path home. Again, he was found in a small pond, not a lake as stated on TCBS, and was *much* closer than 30 miles from where he disappeared. He has no connection to Keyes whatsoever, it was purely accidental with the unfortunate cover of water that prevented his discovery for nearly a decade. He had family friends that lived in the neighborhood pond he was discovered in. There was never any mystery as to what happened to Tony to us.

 

[catsandmorecats]

I've been looking into this and I think, based on the description and potential connections to NAMUS 44, there's a possibility this could be referring to Anita Scott.

Anita Scott – The Charley Project

-She definitely appears to have "pale skin"

-She had not a wealthy grandmother, but a wealthy uncle, who left her millions of dollars when he died

-She drove a '86 Volkswagen, which is notably kind of odd for someone of her age and means (and we also know that Keyes specifically differentiated between newer and older style VW's from his description of the "newer" VW bug that his near-victim in Vermont drove)


And she could be linked to the NAMUS 44 as follows:

-Richard Petrone and Danielle Imbo disappeared on 2/19 or early 2/20 of 2005, from Philadelphia

-Anita disappeared on 2/20/2003, from just outside Philadelphia, and her car was subsequently found in Philadelphia

-(slightly more tenuous) Tony Luzio from NAMUS 44 disappeared from Delaware County, Ohio; Anita disappeared from Delaware County, Pennsylvania


I am up to date on TCBS now, but I didn't write down the timeline of when Keyes is/isn't accounted for outside of the FBI timeline, so I'm not sure if her disappearance clashes with those dates, but as far as I know it does not. I do know, though, that Josh strongly believes there is at least one unknown victim from PA, although his rationale for that was somewhat more vague than most of his strong beliefs related to Keyes.

Thoughts?

hi there - I’m a friend of the Luzio family and knew Tony. I’m very familiar with details Tony’s case and was there when he was found. I can assure anyone wondering, Tony died in a car accident in a small pond just a few feet from the road; this road was on his normal path home. Again, he was found in a small pond, not a lake as stated on TCBS, and was *much* closer than 30 miles from where he disappeared. He has no connection to Keyes whatsoever, it was purely accidental with the unfortunate cover of water that prevented his discovery for nearly a decade. He had family friends that lived in the neighborhood pond he was discovered in. There was never any mystery as to what happened to Tony to us.

 

[shellbee]

I've been wracking my brain trying to figure out something from the Keyes FBI files.

In part 8 of 8 there is an interview with a girl who dated Keyes for about 5 months. Her name is redacted but I think this is the girl Josh calls Denise in TCBS. In the interview Denise tells the interviewing agent that Keyes was very neat and clean, took pride in his work, was an excellent cook and made fudge, and baked pies. Then it reads, Denise "also noted that Keyes could REDACTED better than most Moms could.

This is driving me crazy. What in the world could Keyes do better than a mom that needs to be redacted?

 

[tarabull]

All I can think of atm is CLEAN...

Im sure there will be better choices to follow lol

 

[cujenn81]

I've been wracking my brain trying to figure out something from the Keyes FBI files.

In part 8 of 8 there is an interview with a girl who dated Keyes for about 5 months. Her name is redacted but I think this is the girl Josh calls Denise in TCBS. In the interview Denise tells the interviewing agent that Keyes was very neat and clean, took pride in his work, was an excellent cook and made fudge, and baked pies. Then it reads, Denise "also noted that Keyes could REDACTED better than most Moms could.

This is driving me crazy. What in the world could Keyes do better than a mom that needs to be redacted?

My best guess —
“Keyes could BRAID HAIR better than most Moms could.”

 

[deadfoot13]

My best guess —
“Keyes could BRAID HAIR better than most Moms could.”

That has my vote, too. My brother shared custody of his daughter and had mad skills at braiding hair!

 

[dotr]

I've been wracking my brain trying to figure out something from the Keyes FBI files.

In part 8 of 8 there is an interview with a girl who dated Keyes for about 5 months. Her name is redacted but I think this is the girl Josh calls Denise in TCBS. In the interview Denise tells the interviewing agent that Keyes was very neat and clean, took pride in his work, was an excellent cook and made fudge, and baked pies. Then it reads, Denise "also noted that Keyes could REDACTED better than most Moms could.

This is driving me crazy. What in the world could Keyes do better than a mom that needs to be redacted?

Rbbm.
Since Denise used the word mom as opposed to woman, guessing the redacted bit might be something like "Could spot a lie better than most moms could'' or,
"Could comfort you more than most moms could'' or- "Guilt you better than most moms could''
But this one makes me feel a bit sick to post, but possibly worthy of a retraction...
"Could kiss your boo boo better than most moms could''
imo, speculation.

 

[cujenn81]

There are many possibilities but the only thing I can think of that would be redacted is braid hair. The reason for the redaction being that it’s directly related to the Samantha Koenig case — as we know that Keyes braided Samantha’s hair before taking a picture of her corpse to make it appear as if she were still alive.

 

[dotr]

There are many possibilities but the only thing I can think of that would be redacted is braid hair. The reason for the redaction being that it’s directly related to the Samantha Koenig case — as we know that Keyes braided Samantha’s hair before taking a picture of her corpse to make it appear as if she were still alive.

Bingo, the braids!
American Predator

 

[DetectiveDraper]

Bingo, the braids!
American Predator

He cut off Samantha's braid, and kept it as a trophy. So like others here, I am convinced the comment was "he could braid hair better than most moms". I wonder when he targeted young women, if he looked for those with long hair -- consciously or subconsciously. Or even men with long hair. Definitely a somewhat unusual trophy item.

 

[NorthErn2]

He cut off Samantha's braid, and kept it as a trophy. So like others here, I am convinced the comment was "he could braid hair better than most moms". I wonder when he targeted young women, if he looked for those with long hair -- consciously or subconsciously. Or even men with long hair. Definitely a somewhat unusual trophy item.

In the recent TCB epsiode it was noted that he had a hair tie "with hair attached" according to the FBI files. It was speculated that it could belong to James Lamar Tidwell as it was with Jewellery Keyes stole from the house he burned in Texas.

 

[Octopied]

Just from the wording it seems like it's describing a hair tie with some hairs still tuck in it. I would think that if they did mean a larger chunk of hair like a brain or ponytail that the FBI would have stated that or used any wording to indicate more than a few hairs were present.
Unless, it was a hair tie with attached extensions, but again, I still think the FBI would have specified that vs just stating "with hair attached." (JMO)

 

[cujenn81]

Just from the wording it seems like it's describing a hair tie with some hairs still tuck in it. I would think that if they did mean a larger chunk of hair like a brain or ponytail that the FBI would have stated that or used any wording to indicate more than a few hairs were present.
Unless, it was a hair tie with attached extensions, but again, I still think the FBI would have specified that vs just stating "with hair attached." (JMO)

I totally agree.

 

[DetectiveDraper]

Just from the wording it seems like it's describing a hair tie with some hairs still tuck in it. I would think that if they did mean a larger chunk of hair like a brain or ponytail that the FBI would have stated that or used any wording to indicate more than a few hairs were present.
Unless, it was a hair tie with attached extensions, but again, I still think the FBI would have specified that vs just stating "with hair attached." (JMO)

I'm convinced it was Samantha's.

What's crazy and totally creepy is that he used to braid his sisters' hair, and his daughters. I've often wondered how long his hair was as a youth/teenager, because I have to wonder who braided HIS hair, if anyone. Could shed some light on his relationships with his parents, as I feel based on things I've read and heard, and just a nagging feeling in my gut, there was some very, very messed up stuff going on in that family.

 

[Octopied]

While it COULD be hers, Samantha was wearing her hair down on the night of her abduction(in the absolutely terrifying surveillance footage from the coffee stand) and while she could have had a hair tie on her wrist and he took that, I think the easiest explanation is that it was just one of his own hair ties since he wore his hair long for many years.
Unless you're suggesting that the fanny pack hair tie with hair attached is the braid he created then cut off? I still feel the description of the evidence would have specifically said braid or similar if that were the case.

 

[DetectiveDraper]

While it COULD be hers, Samantha was wearing her hair down on the night of her abduction(in the absolutely terrifying surveillance footage from the coffee stand) and while she could have had a hair tie on her wrist and he took that, I think the easiest explanation is that it was just one of his own hair ties since he wore his hair long for many years.
Unless you're suggesting that the fanny pack hair tie with hair attached is the braid he created then cut off? I still feel the description of the evidence would have specifically said braid or similar if that were the case.

He braided her hair and did her makeup post mortem, before the ransom photo was taken. He also sewed her eyes open. He claimed he was doing it all for the ransom photo, but he was a necrophile and so I don't believe for a second that was the original motive. I don't really know what significance the hair tie has? I'm not claiming that the hair tie was on her person when she was abducted. Either it was Keyes' or his girlfriends, or his daughters -- sometimes people in a household leave them lying around or store them in a container in the bathroom -- but I really doubt Keyes had his own personal stash of hair ties. I've always found it odd he had long hair, when he was so worried about DNA.

 

[Octopied]

@DetectiveDraper gotcha, I wasn’t quite clear on what you were saying with the hair tie before.
And yes, obviously he used human hair in some of his bank robbery disguised as well.

I would think if the hair wasn’t familial (his, his daughter’s or Kimberly’s) that dna testing would have been done and reported on (unless it’s in one of the many many redacted reports of course).

as for him having long hair, he had mentioned in an interview that he often wore it tucked into a hat for that reason, and pulling it back into a hair tie to facilitate that would be pretty normal as well. But it’s a good observation by you that it seems just an added risk for him that conflicts with a lot of other precautions he would take.

thanks for conversing about this btw, there’s no one I know personally that’s as involved in this case as me and so I can’t really talk to most people about these ideas. Hopefully the more of us keep talking about it the more we might find out and maybe finally have some answers and closure for victims and their families.

 

[Octopied]

Is anyone else up to date on TCBS? It’s brought up so much more into this case (and so much humanity into it- if you haven’t listened, episode 19 will break your heart into pieces)
There’s at least 2-3 cases from the podcast that they’ve requested files on that suddenly become open and active again. They’re getting somewhere. Even if LE find it’s not IK, that’s still another step in solving a cold case.
It’s so very encouraging to see more and more solves that come, in some way, from crowdsourcing/podcasts/citizen detectives etc. no, it won’t bring any of the dead back, but if their final story can finally be told, if they aren’t forgotten, if somehow and someway the attention these cases get can produce answers even for one person, I call that a win.

 

[cujenn81]

Is anyone else up to date on TCBS? It’s brought up so much more into this case (and so much humanity into it- if you haven’t listened, episode 19 will break your heart into pieces)
There’s at least 2-3 cases from the podcast that they’ve requested files on that suddenly become open and active again. They’re getting somewhere. Even if LE find it’s not IK, that’s still another step in solving a cold case.
It’s so very encouraging to see more and more solves that come, in some way, from crowdsourcing/podcasts/citizen detectives etc. no, it won’t bring any of the dead back, but if their final story can finally be told, if they aren’t forgotten, if somehow and someway the attention these cases get can produce answers even for one person, I call that a win.

I’m all caught up and totally agree with you. I’m also super interested to see where the pattern of three angle leads.

 

[MesquiteO21]

where was he in mid-May of 2008??? ugh