GUILTY MN - George Floyd, 46, died in custody, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 #19 - Chauvin Jury Deliberations #2

[Inthedetails]

I may be wrong, but what I think he said was "don't watch the news on tv, and don't talk to anyone."
I don't remember him mentioning anything about social media.
Even "don't talk to anyone" imo is rather vague. Does this mean don't talk to your family? Don't talk to the cashier at the grocery store?

If I were on a jury and instructed not to watch the news or talk about the case, I would make the leap on my own that I should also avoid social media that has to do with the case. Isn't that the responsible thing to do?

Unless proven otherwise, I'm trusting the jury took their job seriously during trial. If they didn't, that needs to be brought up with the judge.

FWIW, my mom served on a manslaughter case and was sequestered during the deliberation. During the trial itself, she really didn't talk to the rest of us. It wasn't that she avoided us completely, but that she had a lot to process and focus on - she wasn't interested in chatting about anything, even if it had nothing to do with the case. She certainly didn't talk about the case at all. It made an impression on me that juries take their role seriously.

jmo

 

[whitelilac]

I was just looking back to see what Chauvin's plea deal attempt was.....3rd degree. And "he was prepared to serve over 10 years in a federal prison because he believed the evidence against him was “devastating.”

So it might be possible that he gets what he actually wanted, or even the lesser charge of manslaughter.

https://lawandcrime.com/live-trials...om-taking-a-third-degree-murder-plea-bargain/

 

[Inthedetails]

I was just looking back to see what Chauvin's plea deal attempt was.....3rd degree. And "he was prepared to serve over 10 years in a federal prison because he believed the evidence against him was “devastating.”

So it might be possible that he gets what he actually wanted, or even the lesser charge of manslaughter.

https://lawandcrime.com/live-trials...om-taking-a-third-degree-murder-plea-bargain/

I still don't understand why that plea wasn't accepted.

jmo

 

[RANCH]

Here's a hypothetical.

A juror has been leaning towards a not guilty vote towards the end of the trial. This juror then inadvertently hears Maxine Waters statement demanding a guilty verdict but never tells anyone.

During deliberation this juror keeps the knowledge of Maxine Waters statement to themself and never mentions it to other members of the jury. Because of this knowledge the juror decides that they do not want to vote not guilty because they fear rioting and destruction would ensue.

When asked after the trial if they had heard Maxine Waters statement the juror says no because they know that they should have spoken up before or during deliberations about how the statement affected their vote.

In the end no one knows that this juror was affected by Maxine Waters statement. JMO

 

[Rhozwen]

I still don't understand why that plea wasn't accepted.

jmo

"A former Justice Department official confirmed the failed deal to NBC News, saying that both politically appointed and career Department of Justice officials had rejected the idea.

"His lawyers were trying to rush us, and we didn't want to be rushed," the official said.
But the deal fell apart, the Times reported, citing three law enforcement officials, because Barr worried that it was too early in the investigation and would be perceived as too lenient. Barr also wanted to allow state officials taking over the case time to make their own decisions, the Times reported."

Link to article quoted:
AG Barr quashed plea deal by fired officer in George Floyd death

 

[dixiegirl1035]

We never know who’s commenting on here and what their agenda might be. I’ll just leave it at that. But I think 12 reasonable people with common sense should be able to reach a verdict fairly quickly. The facts are not that complicated and the video speaks for itself. There just isn’t any justification nor is the cause of death at issue IMO. It’s pretty obvious why GF died. I think any holdouts would just be sympathetic to LE. And the others would have to work hard to bring them into the fold if they can. They definitely shouldn’t give up so easily if they can’t reach a verdict today! My point is if it goes past today, that’s the reason. JMO

Perhaps some of the jurors have the same inclination as many of your posts which criticized the "angry mob"? Hopefully they can, as you say, use common sense to know that even if they were perhaps an angry mob... that doesn't affect as you are an example of. MOO

 

[missy1974]

This case is really not that complicated! It shouldn’t take long for a verdict IMO. The only reason it would go past today is if there are 1 or 2 stealth/pro police jurors! Think about it - if this was not a cop - we would all be saying what a slam dunk case it is! The only factor that could bias this jury is that the defendant was a cop!

Having said that - I think the fact that he was charged and tried so zealously and that all these LE witnesses condemned his actions is HUGE! Precedent setting even! The fact that the whole world protested his actions is HUGE! The fact that the whole world is paying attention is HUGE! Let’s not lose sight of that. Whether he serves 10 years or 40 ultimately he’s been condemned by the whole world! Regardless of how much time he serves, good has won!!! His life is effectively over! He will never forget George Floyd’s name! Nor will the world!

JMO

Good morning everyone!

I have to disagree with it's not all that complicated. I didn't think it would be that complicated in the beginning, but I have listened to the every bit of this trial, it is more complicated than it appears on the surface or with just news 'updates'. I know that not everyone has watched it from beginning to end (not saying you haven't ), but if the jury does what they are expected, and they actually discuss the conflicting cause of death possibilities, the use of force policies, etc., it should take longer than just a few days. AND for the record.... I'm not pro-police, and ironically have been called anti-police in other forums haha I was stuck on cause of death... and Nelson's closing changed that for me fwiw. (I need to go back and see if the timestamps were brought up on cross or if Nelson just left that for closing) But it shows me that openminded adults can see the same thing and still disagree on what it means, I expect that with the 12 jurors too.

Either way... I do believe that this has started a change, I wish it didn't have to come with the looting/violence. I don't know how they get past that to make a real change. I'm tired of listening to the leaders/politicians talking about it, I want to see it. JMO

 

[Rocky1]

I still don't understand why that plea wasn't accepted.

jmo

It wasn't accepted because it was offered too soon after he was arrested.
One reason was because the deal was offered before the investigation was complete.
Another reason was because Barr thought people may have thought the deal was too lenient, and the country would burn.
Another reason was, if the deal was accepted, that would have meant Chauvin could not have had federal charges brought against him for Civil Rights violations.

 

[Shaddow]

You can't affect change by staying silent. You can't affect change by being docile. The silence is over. GF death ended that. The knee has been on necks for too long and it's time to get it off. None of what I said is incitement of violence. Silence is complicity...We have to push for reform or it will never happen.

 

[Marysmith]

We never know who’s commenting on here and what their agenda might be. I’ll just leave it at that. But I think 12 reasonable people with common sense should be able to reach a verdict fairly quickly. The facts are not that complicated and the video speaks for itself. There just isn’t any justification nor is the cause of death at issue IMO. It’s pretty obvious why GF died. I think any holdouts would just be sympathetic to LE. And the others would have to work hard to bring them into the fold if they can. They definitely shouldn’t give up so easily if they can’t reach a verdict today! My point is if it goes past today, that’s the reason. JMO

Totally agree - JMO.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I may be wrong, but what I think he said was "don't watch the news on tv, and don't talk to anyone."
I don't remember him mentioning anything about social media.
Even "don't talk to anyone" imo is rather vague. Does this mean don't talk to your family? Don't talk to the cashier at the grocery store?

@Rocky1 MOO, the jury instructions do not state that you cannot talk to your family when you are a juror. Or that you cannot talk to the cashier at the grocery. And that a WSer thinks such. We need to help each others as always to educate MOO. And they indeed were able to "talk with others". It had to do with the trial only. MOO

Thanks for pointing out that many do not understand perhaps and are misled by ????? into questioning they couldn't talk to anyone. WOW!

It makes me *shiver* that some folks perhaps think such of the justice system ... unless like now they are in sequestration.

What makes you come to that conclusion or where did you read such that made you think such. That is totally incorrect during the trial they were not allowed to do such.

 

[tara83]

Good morning everyone!

I have to disagree with it's not all that complicated. I didn't think it would be that complicated in the beginning, but I have listened to the every bit of this trial, it is more complicated than it appears on the surface or with just news 'updates'. I know that not everyone has watched it from beginning to end (not saying you haven't ), but if the jury does what they are expected, and they actually discuss the conflicting cause of death possibilities, the use of force policies, etc., it should take longer than just a few days. AND for the record.... I'm not pro-police, and ironically have been called anti-police in other forums haha I was stuck on cause of death... and Nelson's closing changed that for me fwiw. (I need to go back and see if the timestamps were brought up on cross or if Nelson just left that for closing) But it shows me that openminded adults can see the same thing and still disagree on what it means, I expect that with the 12 jurors too.

Either way... I do believe that this has started a change, I wish it didn't have to come with the looting/violence. I don't know how they get past that to make a real change. I'm tired of listening to the leaders/politicians talking about it, I want to see it. JMO

I'm sure a heart ailment or drugs killed him.It just happened to be when an officer was kneeling on his neck for nine minutes......

 

[Shaddow]

Here's a hypothetical.

A juror has been leaning towards a not guilty vote towards the end of the trial. This juror then inadvertently hears Maxine Waters statement demanding a guilty verdict but never tells anyone.

During deliberation this juror keeps the knowledge of Maxine Waters statement to themself and never mentions it to other members of the jury. Because of this knowledge the juror decides that they do not want to vote not guilty because they fear rioting and destruction would ensue.

When asked after the trial if they had heard Maxine Waters statement the juror says no because they know that they should have spoken up before or during deliberations about how the statement affected their vote.

In the end no one knows that this juror was affected by Maxine Waters statement. JMO

We wouldn't know...I have faith in the jurors to vote their conscience, not someone else's...

 

[Rocky1]

@Rocky1 MOO, the jury instructions do not state that you cannot talk to your family when you are a juror. Or that you cannot talk to the cashier at the grocery. And that a WSer thinks such. We need to help each others as always to educate MOO. And they indeed were able to "talk with others". It had to do with the trial only. MOO

Thanks for pointing out that many do not understand perhaps and are misled by ????? into questioning they couldn't talk to anyone. WOW!

It makes me *shiver* that some folks perhaps think such of the justice system ... unless like now they are in sequestration.

What makes you come to that conclusion or where did you read such that made you think such. That is totally incorrect during the trial they were not allowed to do such.

I didn't read it. I heard the Judge say it. He told the jury at the end of the last two days "Do not talk to anyone" Those were his exact words.
So yes, Those were his jury instructions.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

A plurality of voters said they believe former Minneapolis police officer, Derek Chauvin, should be found guilty in the murder of George Floyd, a new Hill-HarrisX poll finds.

Forty-seven percent of registered voters in the April 16-19 survey said Chauvin should be found guilty while 20 percent said he should be found innocent.

Thirty-three percent of respondents said they are not sure.

Poll: Plurality say Chauvin should be found guilty

Yet, of which charges???

This is what make me cray cray.

There is no charge listed or differentiation. Just a GUILTY........... SMDH.

We at WS should be able to differ. WHICH CHARGE???? when you state guilty is a difference of 10-15 years.

MOO

 

[Marysmith]

I didn't read it. I heard the Judge say it. He told the jury at the end of the last two days "Do not talk to anyone" Those were his exact words.
So yes, Those were his jury instructions.

IMO it was to not talk about the trial only with others...

 

[Rocky1]

IMO it was to not talk about the trial only with others...

I don't believe those were his words.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

And it's just not good for the system. Her job in the government is a lawmaker. She is not part of the judicial system. She can make a difference with legislation. Leave the judicial system to do its duty.

jmo

ETA: I don't think her words had a particularly big impact, except to give social media and msm something to talk about.

I usually find myself agreeing with you about so many cases, but I must respectfully disagree with your take on this.

MW is notoriously known for saying things that incite violence, urging being very confrontational, and also urging the horrible harassment of others not in lockstep with her own ideology.

Imo, words do matter, and no one knows this any better than MW. That's why she's continued to say them. She knows people listen. They always seem to be very aggressive, confrontational statements as well just like the ones she purposefully made this past Sunday. Perhaps she was hoping some of the jurors would see, and hear them since they were at home.

But she didn't say them like she often does in WDC or the state she even represents. Imo, she went right to the very city she already knew had seen so much unrest, and horrific damage done to the businesses in this city.

So, yes, it inexcusable what she has done. If it really didn't matter then the judge wouldnt have put it in the record that her statements may wind up getting the case overturned.

Imo, no elected official anywhere nor anyone else for that matter should be saying anything that could have even the slightest possibilty it will incite violence.

She really needs to be called out for doing so by her own party. Imo.

Jmho

 

[tara83]

I don't believe those were his words.

I would imagine they took it as don't talk about the trial.Why would you not be allowed to talk to your family at at all as in discussing what they want for dinner,lol.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I still don't understand why that plea wasn't accepted.

jmo

AG Barr said it was way too early for the DOJ to even think about a plea deal.

Jmho