GUILTY OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #61

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RAISINISBACK said:
Hi guys sorry I have been MIA. Filing date pushed back to 5-17.

So let me begin here, Jake absolutely was not trying to choke back sobs. I watched that clip a hundred times and saw the same thing each time. He literally had to suck his lips in and smash them together to keep from laughing out loud when the judge mentioned Hannah Mae. Even then his ribs were moving as if he was really really laughing.

Watch it again. Same with Hanna G. Those two he hated and got some real pleasure in killing them, but more Hannah R than Hanna G. Even with only the side of his face showing his body was shaking with an effort not to burst out in full on laughter. He enjoyed killing her more than he ever enjoyed anything in his life. JMO
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I agree 100%, Raisin. The only pangs he's feeling are for himself.
 
Seattle1 said:
April 23, 2021

Prosecutors alleged the Wagner family planned the killings for months, motivated by a custody dispute. According to Canepa, Jake Wagner tried to convince Hanna Rhoden to agree to shared custody of their daughter and she refused. Wagner was able to gain access to two Facebook accounts and found a post from Hanna saying she would never agree to those terms.

Jake Wagner began dating Hanna Rhoden when she was 13. She became pregnant when she was 15, Canepa said.

The family after the slayings were questioned by authorities at the U.S.-Canadian border, where a laptop was seized. Forged documents were found on the computer purporting that Hanna Rhoden had agreed to shared custody.
_____________

Hanna had been part of the Wagner family for most of her life -- like a daughter/sister to the extended family. Jake allegedly worked too many hours on the farm and/or trucking and didn't have enough time for Hanna. I think these are typical complaints of somebody Hanna's age. She also hoped to one day have a nursing career and I think as the teens matured - so would their parenting plan.

I'm still not accepting that custody of a three-year-old was the primary or sole reason why 8 people were massacred. Although I think the prosecutor had evidence to support this theory -- what else was behind these murders not discussed (because the state lacked evidence to prove)?

I always thought fleeing to Alaska during the investigation had to be one of the dumbest moves. And didn't the Wagner's say they moved to Alaska because they thought it was the best environment to raise Jake and Hanna's daughter?

MOO
Click to expand...

As for motive, there is a post just a couple pages back with a detail explanation of FW's wealth and how it could be in a trust or something of that sort and how the grandchildren could get money and having control of both of AW sons and their children's could ensure that money was there. I hadn't thought of that scenario where the family money was the motivator for having control of both JW and GW4 as well as their children too.
 
Now on to other things. This is MOO but after reading and hearing the evidence I do not believe AC would have gotten a conviction on any of them. No weapon to match shell casings to, no DNA evidence, no fingerprint evidence, no forensics at all, no eyewitnesses that could even place them near the murder scenes. And Fred alibied them all when she swore "none of us was anywhere near there that night." All they had was some hearsay evidence from TW and EW about how they were treated while living with the W's and some more hearsay evidence from R family members on what Hannah R told them about how Jake abused her. I am not saying any of they were wrong because I believe every word they said, but all of it would have been thrown out as hearsay. Then they had a bloody footprint that matched a shoe from Walmart that a hundred people could have bought at any Walmart anywhere in the world on any given day. Other than that they had a burned suppressor that obviously blew up in the W's face and was never used in the murders. They had a few videos and some sort of reward card proving they bought things to make a suppressor but no evidence to match any of it to the crime scenes or murder weapons. And none of them were talking including the grandma's. Every one of them were vehemently denying it in fact. If I had been on that jury and saw that "evidence", personal belief in their guilt aside, I would not have been able to convict them. Now before you all get upset with me, listen to DeWine when he said they had nothing in his interview right after Jake pled guilty.

Do any of you think it was a coincidence Jake just happened to plead guilty on the fifth anniversary of the murders? If so then please let me air my opinion. I have said many times it was Jake's show all the way, his ex, his child, his ex's family. He was the star of it all and it ended that way, with it being Jakes show all the way and him the star.

So let me explain a little. Jake and Hannah started dating in 2011 when she was 13. He killed her and her family on April 22, 2016 exactly 5 years after they started dating to punish her for leaving and taking his child. I believe Hannah was the last to die after he told her or maybe even showed her pictures of her family lying dead. He wanted Hannah to know what she (in his mind) had caused him to do by leaving him and moving on with her life. Then he confessed and pled guilty exactly 5 years after he killed her. What does this mean you ask? Well what I think it means is that Jake is a complete psychopath. Take Ted Bundy, Jeffery Dahmer and and every other serial killer you can think of and roll them all into one and that one would still not be as evil as Jake Wagner. Because Ted and Jeffery and every other serial killer might torture their victims but they kill them fairly quickly. Jake left most of his victims still alive. The R, M and G families. He knew they had no evidence, so he made all these loved ones wait five long years, knowing full well the anger, grief and hate they all had to live with for those five long years. He made them wait every single year, every single day of that five years he was involved with Hannah before he killed her, while he preened, smiled, smirked and strutted into court in front of them, to antagonize them, remind them every court appearance of what they knew, he killed the people they loved. He did this in revenge for their supporting Hannah emotionally and for being there for her when she left him. So I believe he made a deal with AC that he would throw his entire family under the bus, testify against them in court, if she would allow him to get up in court and plead guilty on the fifth anniversary of the murders so he could watch the faces of his live victims, watch them cry, struggle with their anger, grief and hatred of him. Then when Hannah Mae was mentioned he let them see him struggle to stop himself from laughing out loud in joy for the revenge he got.

Evil does not even begin to describe him. This is all JMO, MOO, all my opinion, whatever, but it is exactly the way I saw that fiasco play out on 4-22-2021.
 
justtrish said:
As for motive, there is a post just a couple pages back with a detail explanation of FW's wealth and how it could be in a trust or something of that sort and how the grandchildren could get money and having control of both of AW sons and their children's could ensure that money was there. I hadn't thought of that scenario where the family money was the motivator for having control of both JW and GW4 as well as their children too.
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Yeah, but how much money are we talking here? Tens of millions?
 
Cool Cats said:
<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

2 Cent view.....

<modsnip> ... nothing has been said about Angie actually being there. She still could have been "on the shelf."

However <modsnip> I'm pretty sure they needed Angie at home watching Boondock Saints and the kids.

Jake shot HG and Frankie and the 3 at Dana's, so only 3 victims left.
So that leaves Billy to go after Chris and George going after Gary, 2 guns were used there.
Billy was fighting with Chris and with his temper and holding a grudge I can't imagine him not going to Chris's.

The only scenario making sense to me - if Angie was a shooter - is shooting Kenny because they wanted her to be in on it as much as them. I mean they didn't need her they just wanted her to kill one person, to have as much "skin in the game" as them.

So really it's down to which one of the 3 shot Kenny? They won't disclose type of bullet or anything else....2 Cents
Click to expand...
I and others thought Angie shot Kenny. Kenny wouldn't have let a man, other than siblings, into his "space" as small as it was to box him in. He'd only allow a female inside. Or she was the ruse to allow one of the guys into his camper. Either way, IMO, she was the catalyst in his murder. I also believe she was physically in Dana's trailer with Jake.
 
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RAISINISBACK said:
Now on to other things. This is MOO but after reading and hearing the evidence I do not believe AC would have gotten a conviction on any of them. No weapon to match shell casings to, no DNA evidence, no fingerprint evidence, no forensics at all, no eyewitnesses that could even place them near the murder scenes. And Fred alibied them all when she swore "none of us was anywhere near there that night." All they had was some hearsay evidence from TW and EW about how they were treated while living with the W's and some more hearsay evidence from R family members on what Hannah R told them about how Jake abused her. I am not saying any of they were wrong because I believe every word they said, but all of it would have been thrown out as hearsay. Then they had a bloody footprint that matched a shoe from Walmart that a hundred people could have bought at any Walmart anywhere in the world on any given day. Other than that they had a burned suppressor that obviously blew up in the W's face and was never used in the murders. They had a few videos and some sort of reward card proving they bought things to make a suppressor but no evidence to match any of it to the crime scenes or murder weapons. And none of them were talking including the grandma's. Every one of them were vehemently denying it in fact. If I had been on that jury and saw that "evidence", personal belief in their guilt aside, I would not have been able to convict them. Now before you all get upset with me, listen to DeWine when he said they had nothing in his interview right after Jake pled guilty.

Do any of you think it was a coincidence Jake just happened to plead guilty on the fifth anniversary of the murders? If so then please let me air my opinion. I have said many times it was Jake's show all the way, his ex, his child, his ex's family. He was the star of it all and it ended that way, with it being Jakes show all the way and him the star.

So let me explain a little. Jake and Hannah started dating in 2011 when she was 13. He killed her and her family on April 22, 2016 exactly 5 years after they started dating to punish her for leaving and taking his child. I believe Hannah was the last to die after he told her or maybe even showed her pictures of her family lying dead. He wanted Hannah to know what she (in his mind) had caused him to do by leaving him and moving on with her life. Then he confessed and pled guilty exactly 5 years after he killed her. What does this mean you ask? Well what I think it means is that Jake is a complete psychopath. Take Ted Bundy, Jeffery Dahmer and and every other serial killer you can think of and roll them all into one and that one would still not be as evil as Jake Wagner. Because Ted and Jeffery and every other serial killer might torture their victims but they kill them fairly quickly. Jake left most of his victims still alive. The R, M and G families. He knew they had no evidence, so he made all these loved ones wait five long years, knowing full well the anger, grief and hate they all had to live with for those five long years. He made them wait every single year, every single day of that five years he was involved with Hannah before he killed her, while he preened, smiled, smirked and strutted into court in front of them, to antagonize them, remind them every court appearance of what they knew, he killed the people they loved. He did this in revenge for their supporting Hannah emotionally and for being there for her when she left him. So I believe he made a deal with AC that he would throw his entire family under the bus, testify against them in court, if she would allow him to get up in court and plead guilty on the fifth anniversary of the murders so he could watch the faces of his live victims, watch them cry, struggle with their anger, grief and hatred of him. Then when Hannah Mae was mentioned he let them see him struggle to stop himself from laughing out loud in joy for the revenge he got.

Evil does not even begin to describe him. This is all JMO, MOO, all my opinion, whatever, but it is exactly the way I saw that fiasco play out on 4-22-2021.
Click to expand...
Classic narcissist: Create the problem, then be the one to solve the problem, now you're the hero. It was all "me, me, me,...."
 
Occams Razor...basically the simplest explanation is usually the most likely.

We can theorize and hypothesize these murders all we want. We only know a smidgen of the facts and evidence LE knows. Everything we do know is this case was about custody, control and power from a clan-like family (Ws). I don't know of any facts warranting the annihilation of Chris Sr, his ex wife, their off springs, Gary, Ken, and Gilley, aside from the custody issue.

Stolen cars, drugs up a horse's behind, planes landing on mountain tops, cockfighting, and all these other theories has zero evidence in fact leading towards 8 murders. It makes for nice bantering and brainstorming but there is not any evidence known in public to support the claims. Until there is proof backed by facts then it is what it is...8 people lost their lives over a custody dispute. MOO, IMO
 
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Cool Cats said:
<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

2 Cent view.....

<modsnip> ... nothing has been said about Angie actually being there. She still could have been "on the shelf."

However <modsnip> I'm pretty sure they needed Angie at home watching Boondock Saints and the kids.

Jake shot HG and Frankie and the 3 at Dana's, so only 3 victims left.
So that leaves Billy to go after Chris and George going after Gary, 2 guns were used there.
Billy was fighting with Chris and with his temper and holding a grudge I can't imagine him not going to Chris's.

The only scenario making sense to me - if Angie was a shooter - is shooting Kenny because they wanted her to be in on it as much as them. I mean they didn't need her they just wanted her to kill one person, to have as much "skin in the game" as them.

So really it's down to which one of the 3 shot Kenny? They won't disclose type of bullet or anything else....2 Cents
Click to expand...
It hasn't been said yet who killed who. All we know is Jake is claiming responsibility for 5 of them (if we can believe anything Jake says). I don't believe him. My take is Billy and Angie killed Chris SR and Gary. George and Jake killed Frankie and Hanna. Angie and George killing Dana and Chris JR. Billy killed Kenny. Jake saved Hannah for last so he could kill her up close and personal after he told her how many of her family were already dead.

JMO
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Cool Cats said:
<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

2 Cent view.....

<modsnip> ... nothing has been said about Angie actually being there. She still could have been "on the shelf."

However <modsnip> I'm pretty sure they needed Angie at home watching Boondock Saints and the kids.

Jake shot HG and Frankie and the 3 at Dana's, so only 3 victims left.
So that leaves Billy to go after Chris and George going after Gary, 2 guns were used there.
Billy was fighting with Chris and with his temper and holding a grudge I can't imagine him not going to Chris's.

The only scenario making sense to me - if Angie was a shooter - is shooting Kenny because they wanted her to be in on it as much as them. I mean they didn't need her they just wanted her to kill one person, to have as much "skin in the game" as them.

So really it's down to which one of the 3 shot Kenny? They won't disclose type of bullet or anything else....2 Cents
Click to expand...
Those kids were asleep in the car.

JMO
 
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RAISINISBACK said:
Hi guys sorry I have been MIA. Filing date pushed back to 5-17.

So let me begin here, Jake absolutely was not trying to choke back sobs. I watched that clip a hundred times and saw the same thing each time. He literally had to suck his lips in and smash them together to keep from laughing out loud when the judge mentioned Hannah Mae. Even then his ribs were moving as if he was really really laughing.

Watch it again. Same with Hanna G. Those two he hated and got some real pleasure in killing them, but more Hannah R than Hanna G. Even with only the side of his face showing his body was shaking with an effort not to burst out in full on laughter. He enjoyed killing her more than he ever enjoyed anything in his life. JMO[/QUO
DBM
Click to expand...
 
almond said:
I agree 100%, Raisin. The only pangs he's feeling are for himself.
Click to expand...

I don't think he even has feels for himself. A psychopath has no feels. It's all a game and in the end, he won. He got to be center stage. He's already settled in for the long haul. He'll have a crew in state with other murderers. Birds of a feather. He doesn't even feel for his own family. I read, I think in the article I posted, that JAKE decided when it was time to move to AK. I think his mother was missing her granddaughter and he manipulated her and the others into going along with him. It seems he's the only one smart enough to fool with tech stuff too. His confession was theater.
 
BeckyF said:
Legal question: How can Jake’s plea agreement have any bearing on whether the others get the death penalty? I’ve never heard of an agreement like this. One defendant negotiated on behalf of others in the same case? Can someone weigh in? TIA
Click to expand...

I don't see the possibility of using one family member to secure the conviction of other family members with the punishment of death. I don't think the plea agreement would stand up and therefore place the conviction of the whole lot in jeopardy. Also, I'm sure there's probably an exception to the death penalty under these circumstances going back to common law. I'm not sure that the state has revealed yet the conditions for validating Luke's Jake's testimony is accurate. In other cases I've followed, the plea agreement is typically subject to the accused passing a polygraph tied to both the information exchanged and the testimony of the accused.

MOO
 
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RAISINISBACK said:
It hasn't been said yet who killed who. All we know is Jake is claiming responsibility for 5 of them (if we can believe anything Jake says). I don't believe him. My take is Billy and Angie killed Chris SR and Gary. George and Jake killed Frankie and Hanna. Angie and George killing Dana and Chris JR. Billy killed Kenny. Jake saved Hannah for last so he could kill her up close and personal after he told her how many of her family were already dead.

JMO
Click to expand...
I think that Jake kept his real hate and vengeance for DR. She was shot twice and one of those shots was under her chin. I think Jake killed Hanna first and made Dana see it before he killed her. He is a psychopath.
 
Seattle1 said:
I don't see the possibility of using one family member to secure the conviction of other family members with the punishment of death. I don't think the plea agreement would stand up and therefore place the conviction of the whole lot in jeopardy. Also, I'm sure there's probably an exception to the death penalty under these circumstances going back to common law. I'm not sure that the state has revealed yet the conditions for validating Luke's testimony is accurate. In other cases I've followed, the plea agreement is typically subject to the accused passing a polygraph tied to both the information exchanged and the testimony of the accused.

MOO
Click to expand...
Ok. That makes sense. Prosecutors would have had to take the death penalty away. I just had not followed a case with a plea agreement such as this one. Thank You Seattle1.
 
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