GUILTY OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #61

Status
Not open for further replies.
Yeah, that's my opinion on it too.

I just thought of another reliable $$ source that dried up in AK., being able to depend on getting work at FWF.

We know Billy was taking a horse to the vet when arrested and Jake said he drove a truck with his brother and worked on the family farm. Well farm might mean Peterson Rd but the point is that the FWF was right there if funds were tight etc...

Without the Patriarch FW probably needed them even more, that is a mammoth property with an incredible amount of improvements and buildings.

Those kids were asleep in the car.
JMO

Then maybe this is why they took 2 cars. 2 cars double your chances of being seen so they had to have a good reason for bringing it.

They bought one for that night so I have to wonder what was the other one?
 
I wonder what JW’s wife (the girl he married in Alaska) must be thinking right now. Did they divorce? Hope this is allowed to be discussed. Apologies if not and I will immediately delete.
Watching Jake's court appearance on Monday - April 12, 2021 - I noticed that he appears to be wearing a wedding ring. Not that a ring on his hand is proof of anything but maybe he did not get divorced.

Edward “Jake” Wagner’s defense attorneys question evidence in Pike County massacre case
 
I just thought of another reliable $$ source that dried up in AK., being able to depend on getting work at FWF.

We know Billy was taking a horse to the vet when arrested and Jake said he drove a truck with his brother and worked on the family farm. Well farm might mean Peterson Rd but the point is that the FWF was right there if funds were tight etc...

Without the Patriarch FW probably needed them even more, that is a mammoth property with an incredible amount of improvements and buildings.

Wasn't Billy on disability? I thought that I read that on here. IF that is the case, it is kind of interesting that he didn't get nailed for disability fraud for working at FWF. Knowing FW's past history in terms of her property dealings, etc., there probably isn't a paper trail to prove that she paid him for anything, though. MOO.
 
Nov 2018

The Wagner family first vacationed in Alaska because they were friends with the pastor of a Resurrection Bay Baptist Church in Seward, the Cincinnati Enquirer reported.

"They're just good country people," pastor Kelly Cinereski told the Dayton Daily News of Dayton, Ohio.

During the spring of 2017, they vacationed in Alaska while authorities in Ohio searched their farmhouse, news reports said at the time.

Then they sold the farm, packed their belongings into a horse trailer and flatbed truck and drove north, moving into a into a double-wide trailer converted into a larger home on Melody Lane, a rural road off the Kenai Spur Highway north of town.


Melody Lane north of Kenai. (Google Streetview image)
A real estate listing for the property described it as offering "privacy with a big backyard."

One of the sons, Jake Wagner, told the Cincinnati Enquirer that the family had moved, in part, to offer a "better environment" to his daughter. The girl's mother was one of the victims of the slayings.

But the rumors "followed us here," Wagner told the reporter.

It's not clear whether they worked while in Kenai. Locals said they kept a very low-profile.

Public records show the Wagners had a few minor interactions with Alaska authorities as they began to cement their life in their new home.

[..]

Mother Angela Wagner registered to vote in Alaska on July 3. So did father George "Billy" Wagner. Later that summer he was fined for not having enough life jackets onboard a boat. He paid the fine.

One of the sons, Edward "Jake" Wagner, applied for a fishing and hunting license around the same time. Jake Wagner got a minor speeding ticket in Kenai in January.

Other than the speeding ticket, Kenai police said they had no interactions with the Wagners, said chief David Ross.

The family moved back to Ohio in the spring of 2018, DeWine said at the press conference.

Family accused of Ohio massacre spent months living quietly in an Alaska mobile home
 
Wasn't Billy on disability? I thought that I read that on here. IF that is the case, it is kind of interesting that he didn't get nailed for disability fraud for working at FWF. Knowing FW's past history in terms of her property dealings, etc., there probably isn't a paper trail to prove that she paid him for anything, though. MOO.

Exactly.

You can earn some money - that's to declare - but the rest of it goes under the chair.
 
SSD and maybe SSI for the two kids, can make up for a whole lot of not working. IMO.

It is all sickening and leaves a horrible stain on those of us from Appalachia that paved our own way in life.

Folks like the Ws make the stereotypes for the haters come to life.
 
My opinion: Yeah, and strangely, once they got there, they couldn't afford to live there. How the hell were they able to (in Ohio) buy a farmhouse and farm, build a barn, have all those rural creature comforts like an 18 WHEELER, ATVs, etc, but once they get to Alaska, seems the money dried up. I know that Alaska is more expensive than the lower 48, but to me - again, MOO - some sort of illicit source of money dried up when they went on the run.

I had read, unofficially of course, that Bob, GWjr, was financing them in AK and that money went away when Bob passed away. Since they came back after his passing, it is plausible... MOO
 
SSD and maybe SSI for the two kids, can make up for a whole lot of not working. IMO.

It is all sickening and leaves a horrible stain on those of us from Appalachia that paved our own way in life.

Folks like the Ws make the stereotypes for the haters come to life.

From my understanding, GWIII was on SSI and not SSD so his income was small...
 
Now on to other things. This is MOO but after reading and hearing the evidence I do not believe AC would have gotten a conviction on any of them. No weapon to match shell casings to, no DNA evidence, no fingerprint evidence, no forensics at all, no eyewitnesses that could even place them near the murder scenes. And Fred alibied them all when she swore "none of us was anywhere near there that night." All they had was some hearsay evidence from TW and EW about how they were treated while living with the W's and some more hearsay evidence from R family members on what Hannah R told them about how Jake abused her. I am not saying any of they were wrong because I believe every word they said, but all of it would have been thrown out as hearsay. Then they had a bloody footprint that matched a shoe from Walmart that a hundred people could have bought at any Walmart anywhere in the world on any given day. Other than that they had a burned suppressor that obviously blew up in the W's face and was never used in the murders. They had a few videos and some sort of reward card proving they bought things to make a suppressor but no evidence to match any of it to the crime scenes or murder weapons. And none of them were talking including the grandma's. Every one of them were vehemently denying it in fact. If I had been on that jury and saw that "evidence", personal belief in their guilt aside, I would not have been able to convict them. Now before you all get upset with me, listen to DeWine when he said they had nothing in his interview right after Jake pled guilty.

Do any of you think it was a coincidence Jake just happened to plead guilty on the fifth anniversary of the murders? If so then please let me air my opinion. I have said many times it was Jake's show all the way, his ex, his child, his ex's family. He was the star of it all and it ended that way, with it being Jakes show all the way and him the star.

So let me explain a little. Jake and Hannah started dating in 2011 when she was 13. He killed her and her family on April 22, 2016 exactly 5 years after they started dating to punish her for leaving and taking his child. I believe Hannah was the last to die after he told her or maybe even showed her pictures of her family lying dead. He wanted Hannah to know what she (in his mind) had caused him to do by leaving him and moving on with her life. Then he confessed and pled guilty exactly 5 years after he killed her. What does this mean you ask? Well what I think it means is that Jake is a complete psychopath. Take Ted Bundy, Jeffery Dahmer and and every other serial killer you can think of and roll them all into one and that one would still not be as evil as Jake Wagner. Because Ted and Jeffery and every other serial killer might torture their victims but they kill them fairly quickly. Jake left most of his victims still alive. The R, M and G families. He knew they had no evidence, so he made all these loved ones wait five long years, knowing full well the anger, grief and hate they all had to live with for those five long years. He made them wait every single year, every single day of that five years he was involved with Hannah before he killed her, while he preened, smiled, smirked and strutted into court in front of them, to antagonize them, remind them every court appearance of what they knew, he killed the people they loved. He did this in revenge for their supporting Hannah emotionally and for being there for her when she left him. So I believe he made a deal with AC that he would throw his entire family under the bus, testify against them in court, if she would allow him to get up in court and plead guilty on the fifth anniversary of the murders so he could watch the faces of his live victims, watch them cry, struggle with their anger, grief and hatred of him. Then when Hannah Mae was mentioned he let them see him struggle to stop himself from laughing out loud in joy for the revenge he got.

Evil does not even begin to describe him. This is all JMO, MOO, all my opinion, whatever, but it is exactly the way I saw that fiasco play out on 4-22-2021.

I have always believed that they may have been in bed but were awake when shot. I think they were woken up so the shooter could let them know who was shooting them as the last, “who won now” show of superiority. With Dana having one shot under the chin, I can imagine them holding the gun there and saying, who won now or something to that effect, before shooting her. All speculation on my part and my opinion.
 
Wasn't Billy on disability? I thought that I read that on here. IF that is the case, it is kind of interesting that he didn't get nailed for disability fraud for working at FWF. Knowing FW's past history in terms of her property dealings, etc., there probably isn't a paper trail to prove that she paid him for anything, though. MOO.

I believe he was on SSI and not SSD. SSI is for people mentally or physically unable to have gainful employment. I believe they are allowed to have a job and income because SSI is a supplemental income.
SSD is for people who had been gainfully employed and worked a certain length of time and can no longer work.
 
Legal question: How can Jake’s plea agreement have any bearing on whether the others get the death penalty? I’ve never heard of an agreement like this. One defendant negotiated on behalf of others in the same case? Can someone weigh in? TIA

In Ohio, when the prosecution team includes the former AG and current governor, he can approve any deal he wishes. If it saves the state millions of dollars for the cost of holding 4 consecutive capital murder trials, all the better. The governor's son is also on the Supreme Court.

There is also a moratorium on executions in the state due to difficulty obtaining drugs for execution. There's nothing illegal about the agreement. The other parties have the right to refuse it.

This is how Ohio works. Its run by a relatively small group of people. Most of the time thats a problem, but this time it isnt.
 
I believe he was on SSI and not SSD. SSI is for people mentally or physically unable to have gainful employment. I believe they are allowed to have a job and income because SSI is a supplemental income.
SSD is for people who had been gainfully employed and worked a certain length of time and can no longer work.

Explanation of SSI benefits
Supplemental Security Income
 
Watching Jake's court appearance on Monday - April 12, 2021 - I noticed that he appears to be wearing a wedding ring. Not that a ring on his hand is proof of anything but maybe he did not get divorced.

Edward “Jake” Wagner’s defense attorneys question evidence in Pike County massacre case

After Guilty Plea, Jake Wagner Faces Life Without Parole And ...
By CHRIS GRAVES APR 23, 2021

It's a tattoo of a ring, no jewelry in jail. He and Hanna each got one on their ring finger.

"Hanna gave birth to Sophia in November 2013 and the two got wedding rings tattooed on their left ring fingers."

Scheiderer, at George Wagner's Bond Hearing, referred to that tattoo as having helped identify - along with partial palm print - that it was Jake's hand holding the gun from his phone photo.
 
Last edited:
I meant chunk of change not chump...geesh...

Would GW IV son and SW be entitled to SSI pre murders?
I don't think there would be a reason for GW4's son to qualify for SSI because both of his parents are still living.

As for SW, she shouldn't have been entitled to SSI prior to the murders, either. However, she should be eligible for SSI since her mother died. I had a nephew who died at age 23, and his wife receives SSI for both of their children. JMO
 
Unless Jake came up with some new evidence, they may not be able to go after her for both of the old charges.

However, she was named in the indictments of the 4 Wagners under the "criminal enterprise" charge. Depending on how much Jake reveals, there could be more charges.

Yes, and wasn't there a John Doe also named in those charges? IIRC.
Count #22, charge of criminal enterprise could end up being more important in the end than it looks right now.
MO Theory Supposition
RN, through her Notary position could have assisted in all kinds of paperwork (knowingly or unknowingly) that was fraudulent. FW and the companion of the fugitive, the Lady who did FW taxes and handled finances at FWF could have used a Notary for many reasons, all not quite legal. MO.
 
Last edited:
I don't think RN was involved in anything more than trying to help her daughter cover up the forgery of the custody docs. She didn't have the financial resources or ability to assist the Wagners in any other way.

FW, on the other hand, probably did. They can file new charges against her, if applicable. The old ones might not apply. One was for trying to influence or lying to the Grand Jury, the other I think was interfering with an investigation.




Thank you, Covert Operative! :)

You make good points about both RN and FW.
MO. Theory.
This has made me think more about RN, especially since charge #22, criminal enterprise, includes RN and also John Doe.
Were these names put there because of facts Canepa had/ has?
I really don't know. But I assume so, because Canepa has been careful with the charges.

So this made me think -
How, what, were the circumstances that Angela Carter Wagner met Billy Wagner long ago? Was it through some business dealings RN had with Billy?
I admit, this is speculation of the highest degree.
Maybe Billy and RN go way back in history together in some kind of alternate business ventures. Or It could be FW, husband, go back in history with RN with business dealings.
Families working together, and children meet that way.

Again, I also speculated this same thing about Jake and Hanna. No disrespect.
Did they meet through unknown dealings/alternate business ventures that their parents had together? How does a 17/18 year old meet and form a romantic relationship with a 13 year old?
I don't know what importance this speculation could have even if it is correct.
Other than the possibility of all these people being tied together through unknown alternate/ unusual business dealings
This might shed more light on the possibilities that RN may have more information to provide to Canepa, or that RN could still be charged under #22 with crimes if not forthcoming in her information.
I mean no disrespect to victims.
Just trying to understand how all these people crossed paths, lives intersected.
All in relation to possibilities of count #22.
And, who would John Doe be?
 
Last edited:
You make good points about both RN and FW.
MO. Theory.
This has made me think more about RN, especially since charge #22 . criminal enterprize, includes RN and also John Doe.
Were these names put there because of facts Canepa had/ has?
I really don't know. But I assume so, because Canepa has been careful with the charges.
So this made me think -
How, what, were the circumstances that Angela Carter Wagner met Billy Wagner? Was it through some business dealings RN had with Billy?
I admit, this is speculation of the highest degree.
Maybe Billy and RN go way back in history together in some kind of alternate business ventures.

Again, I also speculated this same thing about Jake and Hanna.
Did they meet through unknown dealings/alternate business ventures that their parents had together.
I don't know what importance this speculation could have even if it is correct.
Other than the possibility of all these people being tied together through unknown alternate/ unusual business dealings
This might shed more light on the possibilities that RN may have more information to provide to Canepa, or that RN could still be charged under #22 with crimes if not forthcoming in her information.
I mean no disrespect to victims. Just trying to understand how all these people crossed paths, lives intersected. All in relation to possibilities of count #22.

Naming John Doe or even multiple John Does is not uncommon. I remember hearing a case where 99 John Does were named. It just allows for a name to be added should another name come up during the investigation. I don't think, in this case, it means there is someone they have in mind. Thy were just trying to cover all possibilities in a complex, strange, unusual, case...
AC was only concerned about the state and local charges. After all is said and done, there could be evidence that would allow Federal Charges to be made, but that is not the current concern. Everything current has to do with state of Ohio laws.
Personally, I'd like to see St. Granny get hit with some federal charges like income tax evasion or something for all her lies during this investigation. They did pull her books on the church and home she runs. She still has State of Ohio charges she could face.
Just thoughts and opinions on my part...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
245
Guests online
3,580
Total visitors
3,825

Forum statistics

Threads
592,316
Messages
17,967,362
Members
228,743
Latest member
VT_Squire
Back
Top