GUILTY OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #61

[Dudly]

I agree.
And also, Jakes attorney probably told him to make the apology.

He didn't really apologize to the family for what he did. It seemed rehearsed and he almost made a mistake and stumbled saying it. It was like he suddenly remembered he was supposed to say that...
He said he was sorry for what he had done. I'd be sorry for what I did if it got me into a situation like he is in currently...MOO

 

[Ann99]

Naming John Doe or even multiple John Does is not uncommon. I remember hearing a case where 99 John Does were named. It just allows for a name to be added should another name come up during the investigation. I don't think, in this case, it means there is someone they have in mind. Thy were just trying to cover all possibilities in a complex, strange, unusual, case...
AC was only concerned about the state and local charges. After all is said and done, there could be evidence that would allow Federal Charges to be made, but that is not the current concern. Everything current has to do with state of Ohio laws.
Personally, I'd like to see St. Granny get hit with some federal charges like income tax evasion or something for all her lies during this investigation. They did pull her books on the church and home she runs. She still has State of Ohio charges she could face.
Just thoughts and opinions on my part...

I agree. Canepa is concerned about State and Local charges. No need to muddy the waters right now, keep it all in relation to State of Ohio.

Federal Charges could come out of this investigation once State of Ohio is finished.

It wouldn't hurt Canepa' s already stellar reputation to have that happen. Anything that comes to light at the end of States case regarding Federal Crimes, filing Federal charges later on should not be ignored.

I also agree FW Granny could get Federal charges for tax evasion and more...
MO Theory Supposition, I feel gun running among/across states, was part o f BW business venture, and if that coms out, Feds can't ignore it.
The glock purchase on the HWY 'story' got me thinking...and others were involved in that transaction

 

[LeftEyed]

Curious IF, during his time in custody, Jake has partaken in any form of psychotherapy[?]
IF psychiatric drugs were introduced while in custody the last several years, this opens up a whole new arena of questioning, at least for me.

 

[Seattle1]

You make good points about both RN and FW.
MO. Theory.
This has made me think more about RN, especially since charge #22, criminal enterprise, includes RN and also John Doe.
Were these names put there because of facts Canepa had/ has?
I really don't know. But I assume so, because Canepa has been careful with the charges.

So this made me think -
How, what, were the circumstances that Angela Carter Wagner met Billy Wagner long ago? Was it through some business dealings RN had with Billy?
I admit, this is speculation of the highest degree.
Maybe Billy and RN go way back in history together in some kind of alternate business ventures. Or It could be FW, husband, go back in history with RN with business dealings.
Families working together, and children meet that way.

Again, I also speculated this same thing about Jake and Hanna. No disrespect.
Did they meet through unknown dealings/alternate business ventures that their parents had together? How does a 17/18 year old meet and form a romantic relationship with a 13 year old?
I don't know what importance this speculation could have even if it is correct.
Other than the possibility of all these people being tied together through unknown alternate/ unusual business dealings
This might shed more light on the possibilities that RN may have more information to provide to Canepa, or that RN could still be charged under #22 with crimes if not forthcoming in her information.
I mean no disrespect to victims.
Just trying to understand how all these people crossed paths, lives intersected.
All in relation to possibilities of count #22.
And, who would John Doe be?

Finally, I do not believe there will be any additional charges here! In the April 12, 2021 hearing, Jakes's defense put the prosecutor to task by requesting the state bring all evidence forward (for any pending charges that they've long been threatening).

The prosecutor tried her best to keep the suspense going by requesting the defense object with more detail to any potential charge on the laundry list and the Judge wasn't having it. I'm surprised the state has gotten away this long dangling the suspicion of 403b evidence and think we finally saw the put up or shut up on April 12. MOO

 

[IType]

You make good points about both RN and FW.
MO. Theory.
This has made me think more about RN, especially since charge #22, criminal enterprise, includes RN and also John Doe.
Were these names put there because of facts Canepa had/ has?
I really don't know. But I assume so, because Canepa has been careful with the charges.

So this made me think -
How, what, were the circumstances that Angela Carter Wagner met Billy Wagner long ago? Was it through some business dealings RN had with Billy?
I admit, this is speculation of the highest degree.
Maybe Billy and RN go way back in history together in some kind of alternate business ventures. Or It could be FW, husband, go back in history with RN with business dealings.
Families working together, and children meet that way.

Again, I also speculated this same thing about Jake and Hanna. No disrespect.
Did they meet through unknown dealings/alternate business ventures that their parents had together? How does a 17/18 year old meet and form a romantic relationship with a 13 year old?
I don't know what importance this speculation could have even if it is correct.
Other than the possibility of all these people being tied together through unknown alternate/ unusual business dealings
This might shed more light on the possibilities that RN may have more information to provide to Canepa, or that RN could still be charged under #22 with crimes if not forthcoming in her information.
I mean no disrespect to victims.
Just trying to understand how all these people crossed paths, lives intersected.
All in relation to possibilities of count #22.
And, who would John Doe be?

BBM, I think it is possible John Doe is FW's husband. He couldn't be charged with anything because all the charges in this case were filed after he passed away.

As for RN, I think she has been charged with all she will ever be charged. If not, I don't think AC would have been willing to dismiss the other charges. In my opinion, the only reason RN was listed as a cohort in the criminal enterprise is because she was charged with forging the custody documents. In my opinion, now that she has confessed that she lied to the grand jury and has told the truth that she neither notarized nor forged any signature on the custody papers, she is no longer considered part of the criminal enterprise. All other charges against her were dropped. If there were more to the story there, I think she would have been charged with those crimes when originally indicted. Again, all JMO

 

[Betty P]

Occams Razor...basically the simplest explanation is usually the most likely.

We can theorize and hypothesize these murders all we want. We only know a smidgen of the facts and evidence LE knows. Everything we do know is this case was about custody, control and power from a clan-like family (Ws). I don't know of any facts warranting the annihilation of Chris Sr, his ex wife, their off springs, Gary, Ken, and Gilley, aside from the custody issue.

Stolen cars, drugs up a horse's behind, planes landing on mountain tops, cockfighting, and all these other theories has zero evidence in fact leading towards 8 murders. It makes for nice bantering and brainstorming but there is not any evidence known in public to support the claims. Until there is proof backed by facts then it is what it is...8 people lost their lives over a custody dispute. MOO, IMO

Thanks. All those theories, yet the Rhodens were still not wealthy people, not by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Betty P]

Finally, I do not believe there will be any additional charges here! In the April 12, 2021 hearing, Jakes's defense put the prosecutor to task by requesting the state bring all evidence forward (for any pending charges that they've long been threatening).

The prosecutor tried her best to keep the suspense going by requesting the defense object with more detail to any potential charge on the laundry list and the Judge wasn't having it. I'm surprised the state has gotten away this long dangling the suspicion of 403b evidence and think we finally saw the put up or shut up on April 12. MOO

Not to mention all the times the defense was requested to provide their evidence in defense of the Wagners. Oh, wait. They never produced anything. Jake's confession is the final nail - they are guilty of all charges. They did kill the Rhoden family and Hannah Gilley with great premeditation, planning, spying, etc.

The fact they almost got away with it should never be misinterpreted as an indication the Wagners weren't guilty of a heinous crime or that the Rhoden family somehow deserved it.

No one from the Rhoden family did anything other than defend themselves from a bunch of craven, violent and entitled lunatics.

 

[Seattle1]

Not to mention all the times the defense was requested to provide their evidence in defense of the Wagners. Oh, wait. They never produced anything. Jake's confession is the final nail - they are guilty of all charges. They did kill the Rhoden family and Hannah Gilley with great premeditation, planning, spying, etc.

The fact they almost got away with it should never be misinterpreted as an indication the Wagners weren't guilty of a heinous crime or that the Rhoden family somehow deserved it.

No one from the Rhoden family did anything other than defend themselves from a bunch of craven, violent and entitled lunatics.

The difference here is that the State has the burden to prove the case. The burden is not on the accused, ever.

The point of not dangling the 403b evidence under suspicion of pending charges at this late hour is that the tactic often paves the way to an appeal. Nobody wants that.

 

[Berrybell]

Hi guys sorry I have been MIA. Filing date pushed back to 5-17.

So let me begin here, Jake absolutely was not trying to choke back sobs. I watched that clip a hundred times and saw the same thing each time. He literally had to suck his lips in and smash them together to keep from laughing out loud when the judge mentioned Hannah Mae. Even then his ribs were moving as if he was really really laughing.

Watch it again. Same with Hanna G. Those two he hated and got some real pleasure in killing them, but more Hannah R than Hanna G. Even with only the side of his face showing his body was shaking with an effort not to burst out in full on laughter. He enjoyed killing her more than he ever enjoyed anything in his life. JMO

I completely agree.

 

[Betty P]

I don't think he even has feels for himself. A psychopath has no feels. It's all a game and in the end, he won. He got to be center stage. He's already settled in for the long haul. He'll have a crew in state with other murderers. Birds of a feather. He doesn't even feel for his own family. I read, I think in the article I posted, that JAKE decided when it was time to move to AK. I think his mother was missing her granddaughter and he manipulated her and the others into going along with him. It seems he's the only one smart enough to fool with tech stuff too. His confession was theater.

True. It was obvious the other day that he enjoyed the show he was putting on.

I do think he knew he had to make a plea deal because, in spite of some missing pieces of evidence, the state had enough to convict him. They may have had a more difficult time convicting some of the others, but they were probably going to convict Jake. At heart, even sociopaths are cowards when it comes to their own lives. Jake didn't want to face a death penalty, so he made a deal. No doubt, though, he enjoyed the show. He enjoyed inflicting further pain on the surviving family members and he still sees himself as a celebrity. And he doesn't regret any of the murders, nor does he regret turning on his own family.

 

[Berrybell]

Now on to other things. This is MOO but after reading and hearing the evidence I do not believe AC would have gotten a conviction on any of them. No weapon to match shell casings to, no DNA evidence, no fingerprint evidence, no forensics at all, no eyewitnesses that could even place them near the murder scenes. And Fred alibied them all when she swore "none of us was anywhere near there that night." All they had was some hearsay evidence from TW and EW about how they were treated while living with the W's and some more hearsay evidence from R family members on what Hannah R told them about how Jake abused her. I am not saying any of they were wrong because I believe every word they said, but all of it would have been thrown out as hearsay. Then they had a bloody footprint that matched a shoe from Walmart that a hundred people could have bought at any Walmart anywhere in the world on any given day. Other than that they had a burned suppressor that obviously blew up in the W's face and was never used in the murders. They had a few videos and some sort of reward card proving they bought things to make a suppressor but no evidence to match any of it to the crime scenes or murder weapons. And none of them were talking including the grandma's. Every one of them were vehemently denying it in fact. If I had been on that jury and saw that "evidence", personal belief in their guilt aside, I would not have been able to convict them. Now before you all get upset with me, listen to DeWine when he said they had nothing in his interview right after Jake pled guilty.

Do any of you think it was a coincidence Jake just happened to plead guilty on the fifth anniversary of the murders? If so then please let me air my opinion. I have said many times it was Jake's show all the way, his ex, his child, his ex's family. He was the star of it all and it ended that way, with it being Jakes show all the way and him the star.

So let me explain a little. Jake and Hannah started dating in 2011 when she was 13. He killed her and her family on April 22, 2016 exactly 5 years after they started dating to punish her for leaving and taking his child. I believe Hannah was the last to die after he told her or maybe even showed her pictures of her family lying dead. He wanted Hannah to know what she (in his mind) had caused him to do by leaving him and moving on with her life. Then he confessed and pled guilty exactly 5 years after he killed her. What does this mean you ask? Well what I think it means is that Jake is a complete psychopath. Take Ted Bundy, Jeffery Dahmer and and every other serial killer you can think of and roll them all into one and that one would still not be as evil as Jake Wagner. Because Ted and Jeffery and every other serial killer might torture their victims but they kill them fairly quickly. Jake left most of his victims still alive. The R, M and G families. He knew they had no evidence, so he made all these loved ones wait five long years, knowing full well the anger, grief and hate they all had to live with for those five long years. He made them wait every single year, every single day of that five years he was involved with Hannah before he killed her, while he preened, smiled, smirked and strutted into court in front of them, to antagonize them, remind them every court appearance of what they knew, he killed the people they loved. He did this in revenge for their supporting Hannah emotionally and for being there for her when she left him. So I believe he made a deal with AC that he would throw his entire family under the bus, testify against them in court, if she would allow him to get up in court and plead guilty on the fifth anniversary of the murders so he could watch the faces of his live victims, watch them cry, struggle with their anger, grief and hatred of him. Then when Hannah Mae was mentioned he let them see him struggle to stop himself from laughing out loud in joy for the revenge he got.

Evil does not even begin to describe him. This is all JMO, MOO, all my opinion, whatever, but it is exactly the way I saw that fiasco play out on 4-22-2021.

I cannot agree with this enough times!!!!! You expressed my thoughts perfectly.

 

[Betty P]

The difference here is that the State has the burden to prove the case. The burden is not on the accused, ever.

The point of not dangling the 403b evidence under suspicion of pending charges at this late hour is that the tactic often paves the way to an appeal. Nobody wants that.

I'm sorry if you misunderstood my comment. We disagree that the state didn't have enough evidence to prove its case against Jake. They did have DNA evidence, too. It's in the discovery documents. We will see the details of that in the future. They also had video evidence from the victims property and that of neighbors from the night of the crimes. Add in thousands of hours of digital evidence in audio and digital messaging format of the family members discussing details of the crime, the evidence and the investigation.

It would be a mistake to assume that Jake's attorneys would have allowed him to take a plea agreement if they thought the state couldn't prove their case against him. He had very good attorneys with a great deal of experience in trying DP cases. They wouldn't have convinced him to make a deal for LWOP if they thought they had a chance of him getting acquitted.

JMO

For those who haven't had a chance to review them, many of the discovery documents are located in the Media & Timeline's file. The link is on the first page of each thread.

 

[Seattle1]

Finally, I do not believe there will be any additional charges here! In the April 12, 2021 hearing, Jakes's defense put the prosecutor to task by requesting the state bring all evidence forward (for any pending charges that they've long been threatening).

The prosecutor tried her best to keep the suspense going by requesting the defense object with more detail to any potential charge on the laundry list and the Judge wasn't having it. I'm surprised the state has gotten away this long dangling the suspicion of 403b evidence and think we finally saw the put up or shut up on April 12. MOO

Adding the link to 20 min hearing

Edward “Jake” Wagner’s defense attorneys question evidence in Pike County massacre case

 

[molly1255]

True. It was obvious the other day that he enjoyed the show he was putting on.

I do think he knew he had to make a plea deal because, in spite of some missing pieces of evidence, the state had enough to convict him. They may have had a more difficult time convicting some of the others, but they were probably going to convict Jake. At heart, even sociopaths are cowards when it comes to their own lives. Jake didn't want to face a death penalty, so he made a deal. No doubt, though, he enjoyed the show. He enjoyed inflicting further pain on the surviving family members and he still sees himself as a celebrity. And he doesn't regret any of the murders, nor does he regret turning on his own family.

I agree and I'll add, I don't even think he regrets what he has done to his own child. JMO.

 

[Seattle1]

I'm sorry if you misunderstood my comment. We disagree that the state didn't have enough evidence to prove its case against Jake. They did have DNA evidence, too. It's in the discovery documents. We will see the details of that in the future. They also had video evidence from the victims property and that of neighbors from the night of the crimes. Add in thousands of hours of digital evidence in audio and digital messaging format of the family members discussing details of the crime, the evidence and the investigation.

It would be a mistake to assume that Jake's attorneys would have allowed him to take a plea agreement if they thought the state couldn't prove their case against him. He had very good attorneys with a great deal of experience in trying DP cases. They wouldn't have convinced him to make a deal for LWOP if they thought they had a chance of him getting acquitted.

JMO

For those who haven't had a chance to review them, many of the discovery documents are located in the Media & Timeline's file. The link is on the first page of each thread.

I don't agree that there's insufficient evidence to prove the murder charges against Jake. Sorry if OP read that as my message.

However, I disagree that the State will file future charges against Jake or others and believe the lingering idea of pending, additional charges was closed during the April 12 hearing when the defense questioned the State about 403, 404b evidence not disclosed. IMO, I thought the Judge was clear in reminding the prosecutor about the Supreme court ruling for notice and the burden the state has to admit other acts.

(In my prior post, I referenced the long lingering threat 0f additional charges as put up or shut up).

 

[Betty P]

I don't agree that there's insufficient evidence to prove the murder charges against Jake. Sorry if OP read that as my message.

However, I disagree that the State will file future charges against Jake or others and believe the lingering idea of pending, additional charges was closed during the April 12 hearing when the defense questioned the State about 403, 404b evidence not disclosed. IMO, I thought the Judge was clear in reminding the prosecutor about the Supreme court ruling for notice and the burden the state has to admit other acts.

(In my prior post, I referenced the long lingering threat 0f additional charges as put up or shut up).

I agree with you on that. There's no need for the state to pursue additional charges and I don't think that's their intention, particularly where the 4 Wagners are concerned. They have enough evidence, with Jake's agreement to convict the other 3 Wagners cases, whether through plea agreements or trials. That said, the state will be fastidious in protecting their case against Billy, AW and GW4 until there's a resolution.

As for the 2 grandmothers, we'll have to wait and see if they pursue further charges against them. Seems unlikely with RN, but FW is an open question.

 

[Betty P]

Curious IF, during his time in custody, Jake has partaken in any form of psychotherapy[?]
IF psychiatric drugs were introduced while in custody the last several years, this opens up a whole new arena of questioning, at least for me.

There's been no request on record for Jake to leave the jail for any type of medical treatment. It seems doubtful he would receive that kind of treatment in-house at the Franklin County Jail.

 

[Felecia]

I believe he was on SSI and not SSD. SSI is for people mentally or physically unable to have gainful employment. I believe they are allowed to have a job and income because SSI is a supplemental income.
SSD is for people who had been gainfully employed and worked a certain length of time and can no longer work.

Or for those that do not have enough work quarters to qualify for SSD. If a recipient has income, the SSI can be reduced depending upon the type of income.

 

[Ann99]

In regard to RitaN.
Here is an article.
Rita Newcomb: Grandmother reaches plea deal in Pike County case
Honestly I can not fully understand if all charges have been dropped.
I dont think so. House arrest, etc. I appreciate any discussion.
I believe RN still could be called upon to fill in any info. that Jake provides. And she must do so truthfully.
I do understand about the john doe name. that it is there as a placeholder should other info come to light. We do not know if that may be someone close to FW, OR someone close to Rita N, or a completely unknown person.
Compelled by law and threat of further prosecution, I think Rita could have much more to contribute, Fredericka too.

 

[Seattle1]

As for the 2 grandmothers, we'll have to wait and see if they pursue further charges against them. Seems unlikely with RN, but FW is an open question.

^^rsbm
Any charges against the grandmothers would have to be new, never charged before.
I think the worst is behind them. They have to live with themselves. And as for God-fearing women -- not so much. MOO

ETA: Per link by @Ann99 - it appears RN was not yet sentenced but no doubt her attorney would not agree to extend the statute of limitations here. Per her plea agreement, her charges reduced to a misdemeanor obstructing official business. RN is also not on house arrest and is not on ankle monitor. The maximum sentence for her charge would be 90 days.
Personally, I think holding off on sentencing is being used as a reminder to keep her from communicating with her daughter Angela. They've violated that order before.