Deceased/Not Found CT - Jennifer Dulos, 50, New Canaan, 24 May 2019 *ARRESTS* #53

[Chicago54]

Thanks much, Tink. Enlightening.

It is enlightening and has added to my confusion. There has been discussion here about the reason why JS wants this document so badly. Some speculate that it painted JFD poorly, so in some round about irrational way JS will try to argue MTs alleged actions were justified or he’ll toss it into the Gone Girl salad. Others speculate that MT was painted so spectacularly that she alone looked like the only positive beacon in the children’s lives. IMO both these guesses realistically ( even to JS I imagine) do not present any reasonable justification for any degree of involvement from MT. I was thinking JS was searching for the prosecutorial misconduct hook to add to his Pandora’s box of possible appeals.

Now that I’ve read the actual motion (thanks @sds71), I’m thinking JS may have another little treasure chest of tricks waiting. Clearly, he did not like receiving only the 2 pages of notes pertaining to MT. If he just wanted to see what Herman said-ok -there it is-so what? Really, if we think about it , what does the custodial agreement have anything to do with JFD murder? In fact, I’m really confused as to why MT was interviewed at all? I’d sure like to see the original order for the evaluations. Did it include a court order demanding evaluation of everyone who cared for the children ? Did FDs lawyer request the eval in a motion requesting a change in the existing order? Sorry, I digress. I could go on and on trying to chase the rabbit hole here on appropriate, legal, etc......whatever the reason, she apparently did have an interview with Herman. And he opined on it. And MT and JS wanted to see what it said. And they have ( and as others noted, they probably had it all along). But now JS doesn’t like 2 excerpted pages..

What’s his new little trick? He wants the context. He wants them admissible. Could these pages offer a little “defense” if poor little MT can’t find any other way around her alleged behavior? Herman might have also opined on the poor psychological state of MT as well as JFD. Almost one year ago, we possibly heard the only “excuse” words out of MTs mouth; she said she shouldn’t have “trusted” FD. Since then it’s been a constant barrage of “poor innocent loving daughter/sister, not raised this way, she would never hurt anyone” love fest for MT. Poor naive innocent MT who normally would never behave like she is being accused - unless perhaps she was under the spell of Mr Untrustworthy.

I hate to say these words, but Is MT despicably enough to try and use FDs now established coercive control to her own benefit?

Personally, I would not be surprised at all. Moo moo moo

 

[Seattle1]

Troconis attorney submits motion to obtain doctor's testimony from Dulos divorce hearing | fox61.com

April 28, 2021

Additionally, the judge ruled that Troconis no longer has to be part of the Intensive Probation supervision program, but all other conditions of her release are subject to a written decision that is expected to be made in two weeks.

The attorney for Troconis had asked the court to review and modify the conditions under which she has been held on house arrest. Defense counsel released three videos in August they said bolsters their case.

 

[Cloudydiamond]

Just out of curiosity, to be called for jury duty, do you have to live in the same county as the court?

I know I would never be chosen thanks to my commentary here but I'm sure voir dire would be interesting in its own right. Jmo

I do believe that is the case.

 

[Megnut]

I don't think Schoenborn cares, wants or needs to see the report. I think he wants to raise the spectre, implication being that the results must be juicy.... A Few Good Men... the two airmen Kaffee was going to call to the stand to testify to...nothing.

What could possibly be in there which would exonerate anyone?

It seems some attorneys get paid by the motion.

MT seems really inconvenienced by Jennifer's murder.

JMO

 

[Tink56]

It is enlightening and has added to my confusion. There has been discussion here about the reason why JS wants this document so badly. Some speculate that it painted JFD poorly, so in some round about irrational way JS will try to argue MTs alleged actions were justified or he’ll toss it into the Gone Girl salad. Others speculate that MT was painted so spectacularly that she alone looked like the only positive beacon in the children’s lives. IMO both these guesses realistically ( even to JS I imagine) do not present any reasonable justification for any degree of involvement from MT. I was thinking JS was searching for the prosecutorial misconduct hook to add to his Pandora’s box of possible appeals.

Now that I’ve read the actual motion (thanks @sds71), I’m thinking JS may have another little treasure chest of tricks waiting. Clearly, he did not like receiving only the 2 pages of notes pertaining to MT. If he just wanted to see what Herman said-ok -there it is-so what? Really, if we think about it , what does the custodial agreement have anything to do with JFD murder? In fact, I’m really confused as to why MT was interviewed at all? I’d sure like to see the original order for the evaluations. Did it include a court order demanding evaluation of everyone who cared for the children ? Did FDs lawyer request the eval in a motion requesting a change in the existing order? Sorry, I digress. I could go on and on trying to chase the rabbit hole here on appropriate, legal, etc......whatever the reason, she apparently did have an interview with Herman. And he opined on it. And MT and JS wanted to see what it said. And they have ( and as others noted, they probably had it all along). But now JS doesn’t like 2 excerpted pages..

What’s his new little trick? He wants the context. He wants them admissible. Could these pages offer a little “defense” if poor little MT can’t find any other way around her alleged behavior? Herman might have also opined on the poor psychological state of MT as well as JFD. Almost one year ago, we possibly heard the only “excuse” words out of MTs mouth; she said she shouldn’t have “trusted” FD. Since then it’s been a constant barrage of “poor innocent loving daughter/sister, not raised this way, she would never hurt anyone” love fest for MT. Poor naive innocent MT who normally would never behave like she is being accused - unless perhaps she was under the spell of Mr Untrustworthy.

I hate to say these words, but Is MT despicably enough to try and use FDs now established coercive control to her own benefit?

Personally, I would not be surprised at all. Moo moo moo

Good idea Chircago54....certainly a possibility that MT will claim that she was under FD's spell.

Another thought, as JS asks for JFD's medical records, could be back to accusing the Farber family of harming JFD or covering up her physical condition or death.

I smell a bit of NP in these motions. And NP, through his attorney, has made some very harsh accusations against GF. Is it possible that JS is going to claim there was no murder, rather a devious scheme to take the children and punish FD and MT for their roles in hurting JFD.

There's no method to JS's motions except to try to create doubt and questions in the minds of potential jurors and take the focus off his client...IMO...MOO

 

[Jmoose]

Good idea Chircago54....certainly a possibility that MT will claim that she was under FD's spell.

Another thought, as JS asks for JFD's medical records, could be back to accusing the Farber family of harming JFD or covering up her physical condition or death.

I smell a bit of NP in these motions. And NP, through his attorney, has made some very harsh accusations against GF. Is it possible that JS is going to claim there was no murder, rather a devious scheme to take the children and punish FD and MT for their roles in hurting JFD.

There's no method to JS's motions except to try to create doubt and questions in the minds of potential jurors and take the focus off his client...IMO...MOO

I think you’ve got it, Tink! Seems likely that this is exactly what’s going on.

 

[Seattle1]

There's no method to JS's motions except to try to create doubt and questions in the minds of potential jurors and take the focus off his client...IMO...MOO

^^rsbm

And do I dare mention billable hours to the method...... MOO

 

[HopeForTheBest]

It is enlightening and has added to my confusion. There has been discussion here about the reason why JS wants this document so badly. Some speculate that it painted JFD poorly, so in some round about irrational way JS will try to argue MTs alleged actions were justified or he’ll toss it into the Gone Girl salad. Others speculate that MT was painted so spectacularly that she alone looked like the only positive beacon in the children’s lives. IMO both these guesses realistically ( even to JS I imagine) do not present any reasonable justification for any degree of involvement from MT. I was thinking JS was searching for the prosecutorial misconduct hook to add to his Pandora’s box of possible appeals.

Now that I’ve read the actual motion (thanks @sds71), I’m thinking JS may have another little treasure chest of tricks waiting. Clearly, he did not like receiving only the 2 pages of notes pertaining to MT. If he just wanted to see what Herman said-ok -there it is-so what? Really, if we think about it , what does the custodial agreement have anything to do with JFD murder? In fact, I’m really confused as to why MT was interviewed at all? I’d sure like to see the original order for the evaluations. Did it include a court order demanding evaluation of everyone who cared for the children ? Did FDs lawyer request the eval in a motion requesting a change in the existing order? Sorry, I digress. I could go on and on trying to chase the rabbit hole here on appropriate, legal, etc......whatever the reason, she apparently did have an interview with Herman. And he opined on it. And MT and JS wanted to see what it said. And they have ( and as others noted, they probably had it all along). But now JS doesn’t like 2 excerpted pages..

What’s his new little trick? He wants the context. He wants them admissible. Could these pages offer a little “defense” if poor little MT can’t find any other way around her alleged behavior? Herman might have also opined on the poor psychological state of MT as well as JFD. Almost one year ago, we possibly heard the only “excuse” words out of MTs mouth; she said she shouldn’t have “trusted” FD. Since then it’s been a constant barrage of “poor innocent loving daughter/sister, not raised this way, she would never hurt anyone” love fest for MT. Poor naive innocent MT who normally would never behave like she is being accused - unless perhaps she was under the spell of Mr Untrustworthy.

I hate to say these words, but Is MT despicably enough to try and use FDs now established coercive control to her own benefit?

Personally, I would not be surprised at all. Moo moo moo

Thank you for your post! There is so much here to consider! MOO.

 

[HopeForTheBest]

^^rsbm

And do I dare mention billable hours to the method...... MOO

Oh, YES, please do mention billable hours! Yep! MOO.

 

[HopeForTheBest]

I think you’ve got it, Tink! Seems likely that this is exactly what’s going on.

They better take a good look at MT’s past then as she was no naive young girl from the countryside. The facts show otherwise. FD was not her first rodeo…and he has been gone a while. And it will be interested to trace just how MT and FD met and began their affair. How in the heck do they think this flimsy fiction will fly? Pardon me while I go roll my eyes and barf. MOO.

 

[HopeForTheBest]

Good idea Chircago54....certainly a possibility that MT will claim that she was under FD's spell.

Another thought, as JS asks for JFD's medical records, could be back to accusing the Farber family of harming JFD or covering up her physical condition or death.

I smell a bit of NP in these motions. And NP, through his attorney, has made some very harsh accusations against GF. Is it possible that JS is going to claim there was no murder, rather a devious scheme to take the children and punish FD and MT for their roles in hurting JFD.

There's no method to JS's motions except to try to create doubt and questions in the minds of potential jurors and take the focus off his client...IMO...MOO

I just can’t see how anything they say would keep jurors from seeing the truth of what MT was and IS—all their attempts at whitewashing fade away in the light of dates and times. If you only “try” to paint yourself in a better light when you're in deep trouble if your own making and your past is full of documented examples when you were all about your own hedonistic whims, who wouldn’t see through that? MT is inherently an unsympathetic character by her own documented words and actions. MOO.

 

[HopeForTheBest]

For me, the real kicker here is that MT was ordered to have no contact with the Dulos children during their visitation with FD. Seriously, why in the **** would the author of the custody report ever think to interview a banned woman if not rewarded handsomely to do so. Talk about contempt... MOO

I’d like to like this a thousand times! On top of it, I understand that he’s a Ph.D. psychologist—as in trained for research, NOT a Psy.D. psychologist trained for clinical psychology. Big difference. You get the Ph.D. if research is your focus—and that is how you’re trained such as in the scientific method with research questions, hypotheses, etc.—NOT about how to assess people as individuals! You get the Psy.D. if you’re going to be a psychologist who assesses and treats people and that’s what your education focuses on. Those who earn Psy.D. degrees do a study by the scientific method and write a dissertation but that degree is about applying knowledge to individuals. I find it strange that a Ph.D.—trained in research—would be deemed competent to assess. The APA is very, very strict about people working in areas where they are not qualified—and they don’t mean that if you have a degree in psychology, you can assess and treat anyone and anything. People lose licenses over that. I can’t believe the APA or the state regulatory agency over psychologists would think a psychologist saying a mistress was a good choice as a caretaker or whatever was a clinically solid judgment after just a meeting or even a few. I don’t get it at ALL. MOO. MOO. MOO.

 

[HopeForTheBest]

It's like MT thinks 1 atta'girl from a paid (biased) shrink outweighs all the unbiased (video on Albany Ave) evidence... is this chick delusional? I would love to see a psych eval done on her by a completely neutral and competent psychologist. Jmo

Oh, I bet there ARE some in her past. I just bet. And I’d love to see them as well. I wonder if Dr. Herman left in a huff because he knows his license would be at risk if he says in court that he did things one way—and they went against accepted practices for psychologists. Those practices are not suggestions; people lose their licenses regularly over things like that—and they should. And they get (word added here) sued by those they did not treat ethically per the APA and state board. MOO.

 

[HopeForTheBest]

Oh, I bet there ARE some in her past. I just bet. And I’d love to see them as well. I wonder if Dr. Herman left in a huff because he knows his license would be at risk if he says in court that he did things one way—and they went against accepted practices for psychologists. Those practices are not suggestions; people lose their licenses regularly over things like that—and they should. And they get (word added here) sued by those they did not treat ethically per the APA and state board. MOO.

Wait: There is a MAJOR ethical rule that a psychologist can’t have a dual relationship related to work meaning that if he or she assesses or treats one person, the psychologist can’t treat another person with ties to the first person except in certain circumstances with permissions. No way on this Earth would a psychologist be allowed to assess or treat a wife, the estranged husband, and the mistress. No WAY! Goodbye license if so. Psychologists CAN do couples therapy with BOTH there and in agreement (and that sure was not the case with FD and JFD) and they can work with kids and parents together BUT even then, there are strict boundaries and one person is the client. They can’t keep secrets that a wife 0r husband tells them in private therapy and then treat the couple and not disclose that. Dual relationships are a huge no no. I need to read more about how all that transpired with this “report.” MOO.

 

[Seattle1]

I’d like to like this a thousand times! On top of it, I understand that he’s a Ph.D. psychologist—as in trained for research, NOT a Psy.D. psychologist trained for clinical psychology. Big difference. You get the Ph.D. if research is your focus—and that is how you’re trained such as in the scientific method with research questions, hypotheses, etc.—NOT about how to assess people as individuals! You get the Psy.D. if you’re going to be a psychologist who assesses and treats people and that’s what your education focuses on. Those who earn Psy.D. degrees do a study by the scientific method and write a dissertation but that degree is about applying knowledge to individuals. I find it strange that a Ph.D.—trained in research—would be deemed competent to assess. The APA is very, very strict about people working in areas where they are not qualified—and they don’t mean that if you have a degree in psychology, you can assess and treat anyone and anything. People lose licenses over that. I can’t believe the APA or the state regulatory agency over psychologists would think a psychologist saying a mistress was a good choice as a caretaker or whatever was a clinically solid judgment after just a meeting or even a few. I don’t get it at ALL. MOO. MOO. MOO.

There has been so many Ph. D's, Psy. D's, and MD's penetrating the lives of the Dulos family (and for a king's ransom), it's difficult to keep them straight!

However, I do recall that I made the mistake before thinking Herman, author of the custody report, was the psychologist meeting with FD more than 20 times -- with a seemingly man-crush on him, and I was wrong.

Reportedly, Stephen Herman is an MD -- Board Certified Child Psychiatry.

Deceased/Not Found - CT - Jennifer Dulos, 50, New Canaan, 24 May 2019 *ARRESTS* #53

https://www.childadultforensics.com...0/06/Stephen-P-Herman-MD-Curriculum-Vitae.pdf

 

[Seattle1]

WAIT - DOES ANYBODY REMEMBER THIS GEM FROM FEB 2020?

If you missed it, more background on the custody report that was part of the Dulos Divorce proceedings in Civil Court...

Judge in Dulos divorce case proposes amendments to rules regarding child custody disputes

Feb 20, 2020

The judge who oversaw the bitter Dulos divorce case, which she recently dismissed after Fotis Dulos’ death, asked a judicial rules committee Monday to amend a section of the practice book regarding the use of child custody experts to streamline the process and make it more transparent.

[..]

While Heller didn’t mention the Dulos divorce in her letter, one of the biggest issues in that case was the child custody report submitted by Dr. Steven Herman last April and the battle over its contents in the days before Jennifer Farber Dulos disappeared.

[..]

Dulos’ attorneys have said the Herman report was favorable to him, although it has never been made public. Herman interviewed Dulos as many as 14 times as well as Jennifer Farber Dulos and all five of their children.

When Herman’s report was submitted Dulos asked for emergency custody hearings. Heller had limited Dulos’ time with the couple’s children, ordering supervised visitations with court monitors present.

[..]

Heller held secret court hearings on May 14 and May 17 where Herman testified about his report. During the second hearing sources said Herman left the courtroom and failed to finish testifying. Herman had been paid $20,000 to do the report and then he asked Dulos to pay him an additional $8,000 to testify about it in court.

[..]

Under Heller’s proposed changes Herman also would have had to submit the report to the court — and not to Michael Meehan, the court-appointed guardian ad litem in the case. In the Dulos case, her attorney Rueben Midler accused the guardian ad litem, who is appointed by the judge, of distributing the report to Dulos’ then-attorney Michael Rose. Midler filed a motion asking that Heller remove Meehan as the guardian ad litem because he “gave and permitted access to the report to the Defendant and his counsel and thereby disseminated its contents without authorization from the court.”

Heller was angry that Herman’s report wasn’t immediately sealed and was circulated at least among the attorneys and that somehow Dulos himself had a copy of it. State police found a copy of the report in his Jefferson Crossing home when they searched it last June.

ETA: Hmmm...
I think if each party was required to pay Herman $20,000 for the tardy, custody evaluation report plus FD charged an additional $8,000 to testify, the Herman incident now valued at $48,000! MOO

 

[sds71]

WAIT - DOES ANYBODY REMEMBER THIS GEM FROM FEB 2020?

If you missed it, more background on the custody report that was part of the Dulos Divorce proceedings in Civil Court...

Judge in Dulos divorce case proposes amendments to rules regarding child custody disputes

Feb 20, 2020

The judge who oversaw the bitter Dulos divorce case, which she recently dismissed after Fotis Dulos’ death, asked a judicial rules committee Monday to amend a section of the practice book regarding the use of child custody experts to streamline the process and make it more transparent.

While Heller didn’t mention the Dulos divorce in her letter, one of the biggest issues in that case was the child custody report submitted by Dr. Steven Herman last April and the battle over its contents in the days before Jennifer Farber Dulos disappeared.

Under Heller’s proposed changes Herman also would have had to submit the report to the court — and not to Michael Meehan, the court-appointed guardian ad litem in the case. In the Dulos case, her attorney Rueben Midler accused the guardian ad litem, who is appointed by the judge, of distributing the report to Dulos’ then-attorney Michael Rose. Midler filed a motion asking that Heller remove Meehan as the guardian ad litem because he “gave and permitted access to the report to the Defendant

Heller was angry that Herman’s report wasn’t immediately sealed and was circulated at least among the attorneys and that somehow Dulos himself had a copy of it. State police found a copy of the report in his Jefferson Crossing home when they searched it last June.

ETA: Hmmm...
I think if each party was required to pay Herman $20,000 for the tardy, custody evaluation report plus FD charged an additional $8,000 to testify, the Herman incident now valued at $48,000! MOO

This made me remember that Midler recommended Dr. Herman.
I had forgotten.

 

[Jmoose]

They better take a good look at MT’s past then as she was no naive young girl from the countryside. The facts show otherwise. FD was not her first rodeo…and he has been gone a while. And it will be interested to trace just how MT and FD met and began their affair. How in the heck do they think this flimsy fiction will fly? Pardon me while I go roll my eyes and barf. MOO.

Her mother, posing on Twitter as Merieanne1968, persists in claiming that their affair didn’t start until the fall of 2017, months after Jennifer left the family home with the kids. That seems to be important to that wretched bunch, but we know better, and there is proof. Aside from pictorial evidence, and financial documents, fD admitted to Jennifer before she moved out of HER OWN HOME, that he had something going on with MT, and that it was going to continue.

 

[Laughing]

Her mother, posing on Twitter as Merieanne1968, persists in claiming that their affair didn’t start until the fall of 2017, months after Jennifer left the family home with the kids. That seems to be important to that wretched bunch, but we know better, and there is proof. Aside from pictorial evidence, and financial documents, fD admitted to Jennifer before she moved out of HER OWN HOME, that he had something going on with MT, and that it was going to continue.

IIRC, documents and sworn testimony in the divorce proceedings show that fD and Michelle Troconis were traveling together in 2016. Or was that the foreclosure/financial swamp proceedings? Obviously these overlap, which makes it difficult to find a link.

Apparently, the Troconis clan wants to include the inadmissible, sealed psych report but prefer to ignore the travel receipts establishing the home-wrecking of Michelle Troconis?

With the double-bird, crotch grab, and no clothes photographs.


image from oreilly.com

jmho ymmv lrr lrr lrr lrr lrr

 

[Tink56]

Her mother, posing on Twitter as Merieanne1968, persists in claiming that their affair didn’t start until the fall of 2017, months after Jennifer left the family home with the kids. That seems to be important to that wretched bunch, but we know better, and there is proof. Aside from pictorial evidence, and financial documents, fD admitted to Jennifer before she moved out of HER OWN HOME, that he had something going on with MT, and that it was going to continue.

Actually FD was paying for trips for MT and her daughter in 2015. This was moment NP put his head in his hands at the Civil Trial in December 2019.
I could find my link the DM summary, but it also appeared in other stories, but some have mysteriously disappeared.

"A forensic accountant also told the court he had been paying for flights for him, Troconis, and Troconis' son to exotic locations since 2015 - two years before Jennifer filed for divorce." (The son comment is NB, IMO)
Fotis Dulos arrives at court for second day of civil trial | Daily Mail Online

Can't find the New York Post article right now.